Rule Against Verses With Slurs In Name

[FinePoint]

I know we're waiting on Fandom's response, but given that I have not yet weighed in on this issue, and there's a possibility they may say yes and reopen debate, I'll make my position known for the record, though I do not plan on arguing.

I don't think it should be on the wiki. It has a unique problem that the other examples don't have (such as South Park), which is that looking into it even slightly outside of the wiki is going to immediately expose people to slurs. To me this is the very simple reason I oppose it.

Now, I have zero problem with edgy content personally, so don't take this as me being PC. I just don't think it's the kind of thing we should be presenting and introducing into conversations that will, without a doubt, at least prompt someone to Google it and see a few slurs instantly as demonstrated in this screenshot. Hiding the original title only makes this problem worse, as people won't think twice about Googling it if we purposefully hide any mention of the alternate title on the page.

The actual slur is simply too heavily ingrained into the verse for it to be presented and not expose people to it.

 

[Promestein]

It's not our job to protect people from bad words in fiction.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This is silly. People might google a Berserk character and be shown man-made horrors beyond my comprehension. We aren't parents, we aren't obligated to shield anyone from content outside of the wiki.

 

[Promestein]

If anything maybe we should put a standardized warning template on some pages letting people know that the verse deals with mature content.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Let's stop responding here and wait for the Fandom staff to make a judgement please. I think that each side of this argument have made valid points, and that it is likely that you will all just repeat yourselves and get mad at each other otherwise.

This ^^

 

[Bobsican]

Shouldn't the thread be closed until Fandom gives an answer then? An staff member could just reopen it to clarify how it went.

 

[Antvasima]

If anything maybe we should put a standardized warning template on some pages letting people know that the verse deals with mature content.

We recently created a {{Content Warning}} template for this purpose.

Shouldn't the thread be closed until Fandom gives an answer then? An staff member could just reopen it to clarify how it went.

Yes, I will do so. Something seems to have went wrong with my last Zendesk request to Fandom, since I can't seem to find any email confirmation message from them for this topic, so I will ask again.

 

[Antvasima]

I have received a reply:

"Hi Antvasima,

I'm not familiar with the comic book, but from your description it would be inappropriate for Fandom. Even if the article itself could be kept "clean", it would still be about offensive and explicit content. So it goes over the line I'm afraid.

Thanks for checking with us!"

 

[KatBoi69]

I have received a reply:

"Hi Antvasima,

I'm not familiar with the comic book, but from your description it would be inappropriate for Fandom. Even if the article itself could be kept "clean", it would still be about offensive and explicit content. So it goes over the line I'm afraid.

Thanks for checking with us!"

Well, that was easy and makes the decision easy.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes.

 

[Agnaa]

Uhhh, if it's an issue with the content (as in, the story & events) of it, that makes me worry about a lot more verses on the site.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that it is the combination of the content and the title in this case. I don't think that we and all other wikis have to delete all of our Cthulhu Mythos pages, for example.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, the issue is even if we spelled it differently, google search will still give us results with the original name and it's the same issues with Monster Girl Quest. Even if it arguably doesn't have the extreme content as some profiles on wiki, it's not like any google search immediately brings us to the absolute worst for most of those other searches.

 

[Antvasima]

So should we return to the original topic of this thread now?

 

[KatBoi69]

So should we return to the original topic of this thread now?

Is there much to return to? It seems like there'a no choice due to Fandom's rules.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we need to work out how to word a new rule properly at least.

 

[FinePoint]

Well, I don't think it needs to be very long since we have official confirmation from Fandom.

Due to Fandom guidelines, verses with titles that contain derogatory slurs cannot be featured on the wiki, even if the offending word is censored or replaced for the page.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, but I would appreciate wording suggestions.

Would you be willing to help out with this, @Agnaa ?

 

[Agnaa]

That wording seems pretty much fine to me. I'd change "Fandom" to "Fandom's", and "replaced for the page" to "replaced on the page", but that's about it.

 

[KatBoi69]

I agree with Agnaa. I think it's important that the wording reflect that this rule originates from overarching fandom policy, so people don't try to argue for a change later.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, so would this text be fine to apply then?

"Due to Fandom's guidelines, verses with titles that contain derogatory slurs cannot be featured in this wiki, even if the offending word is censored or replaced in the respective pages."

(Shouldn't it say "in the respective pages" instead of "on the respective pages"?)

 

[Bobsican]

I'd replace "relevant" with "respective" to avoid potential semantics arguments, beyond that the changes look fine.

 

[Antvasima]

I have updated the wording. Is it fine if I apply the new rule now?

 

[Bobsican]

Given the lack of objections at this point, yes.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will do so then. Thank you for the reminder.

 

[Antvasima]

I have handled it:

Editing Rules

The VS Battles Wiki presently consists of 34,349 pages, most of them listing the statistics of characters across different fictional franchises. However, there is a tremendous amount of work involved in maintaining the accuracy of statistics and upholding a high quality for the profiles. In...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[RemainsAE]

The Dog manga thingey's alternate title is blatantly the original word with minor changes, like, you're not fooling people, this kinda shit suggested is the equivalent of saying "fizzlesticks" instead of ****, which, no one's on the wiki is five, they understand what you're attempting to say.

If the alternate title is not just minor letter changes within the same word, and instead is notably distinct, then it's fine to list.

I think Agnaa actually has a screenshot as well, of a person just saying the core word with an "n" instead of an "r" (which zoomed out just looks immensely unfortunate lol), having the verse on the wiki only gives people more opportunities to accidentally say the slurs, or be OOC'd as racist or attempting bypass slur filter, and in general it's just uncomfortable for people, if what is blatantly a stand-in for a slur is getting casually passed across the forums, there is only an arbitrary distinction between it and the real word.

The effort's just not worth additional policing and justifying, and imo is kinda community deteriorating in general. Not every word said on the forum is representing the wiki, but every page is, and this kinda shit we just shouldn't officiate

The alternate title has become the official title sold on amazon, also the writer is black, it's not a title born from racism but as a joke

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it doesn't matter as it can be interpreted in a racist manner. The Fandom staff have made their ruling regarding this issue,

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good to me

 

[The_Impress]

"Hi Antvasima,

I'm not familiar with the comic book, but from your description it would be inappropriate for Fandom. Even if the article itself could be kept "clean", it would still be about offensive and explicit content. So it goes over the line I'm afraid.

Thanks for checking with us!"

Common Zark W

but yeah the editing rules look good.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the evaluations. Should we close this thread then?

 

[MrKerf]

Would the change of official name allow for works to be present on the wiki? Not in this example, but in general?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Would the change of official name allow for works to be present on the wiki? Not in this example, but in general?

Can you give an example of what you mean?

 

[Agnaa]

If it didn't work for this example, I wouldn't expect it to work in general.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

He said he means something different from the above. If I had to guess at his meaning, I'd assume a situation like this one except, post-publishing, the author officially and formally changed the name to Dog Ningen, rather than hosting it as an alternative name.

Were that to be the case, I would agree that, yeah, that probably reaches the same conclusion.

 

[The_Impress]

Thank you for the evaluations. Should we close this thread then?

Yeah I'll lock it

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you to everybody who helped out here.