Riordanverse Demigod speed (travel, combat, reaction) revision

[FalseTrajectory]

As you all know the Riordanverse was meant to get a downgrade a while back. Whether this has gone through or not I have no Idea. However, I noticed that many of the Riordanverse Demigods (mostly just that of the Seven) have stats that are way off. This seemingly happened because characters were scaled directly to each other despite there being very little reason to do so. The only two characters that you could reliably scale are Percy and Jason as they were able to fight on even footing (meaning they have similar combat speed, reaction speed and striking strength), have similar durability feats and are both children of one of the Big Three. If you look at the actual feats for the other Demigods featured in the Riordanverse it becomes clear that they do no scale at all to Percy or Jason. On top of this many of the feats for these used on their profile pages have been taken out of context, mis-calculated, or just straight up contradict their other feats.

The profiles in question:

Percy Jackson

Jason Grace

Annabeth Chase

Frank Zhang

Piper McLean

Hazel Levesque

Leo Valdez

Nico di Angelo

Thalia Grace

This thread will focus on correcting the speed stats that are currently listed on the profiles of the Demigods in the Riordanverse.

While the durability, strength (striking, lifting), stamina and range stats for these characters are also in dire need of being corrected they will be covered in a separate thread.

To start let's start with Percy Jackson. He's currently listed as having High Hypersonic+ speed. This stat comes from him being scaled to Jason who was calculated to have a High Hypersonic combat speed. Why Percy's speed overall is stated to be High Hypersonic+ instead of just his combat speed and reaction speed I have no idea, but it does seem reasonable that Percy's combat and reaction speed scales to Jason's for reasons mentioned above. However, when you look at both Percy's and Jason's other feats and anti-feats it becomes clear that neither are High Hypersonic+ as it currently stands.

Both Percy and Jason have been described as appearing as a blur while fighting on numerous occasions, with their sword strikes being described as arcs of Bronze and Gold.

Normally this would mean that they both have a Subsonic (FTE) combat speed, but since these descriptions come from Demigods who have FTE reactions it could be argued that their combat speed is faster than Subsonic. Since there is no known metric to determine how much faster they would be fighting due to this their actual combat speeds cannot be quantified (if someone can provide a way then I'd very much like to know). Even If you were to double their Subsonic combat speed (a generous estimation of what their actual combat speed is) it would only be around Transonic levels, many orders of magnitude slower than High Hypersonic+.

This means that until it can be accurately determined, both Percy and Jason are Subsonic in terms of combat speed.

It should also be noted that Percy's other combat/reaction speed feats are around this level of speed (blocking a bullet fired from a Smith and Wesson M&P, cutting a volley or arrows out of the air, reacting to and fighting people who can fight as a blur).

This in of itself does not disprove that they are High Hypersonic+ in terms of combat speed but it does give a basis for their other combat speed feats/showings.


Now for the anti-feats. In The Mark of Athena (MoA) both Jason and Percy fought Ephialtes at the same time. The giant was able to block all of their strikes (I'm hesitant to say casually, but he didn't seem to have much issue with blocking their strikes). It was calculated that Ephialtes, while deflecting a bolt of lightning, can move his spear at around Mach 3, giving him a combat speed of Supersonic+. Since he was faster than Jason and Percy attacking at the same time their combat speed should be below or around Ephialtes' combat speed. So either Ephilates is faster than/equal to High Hypersonic+ or Percy and Jason are slower than/equal to Supersonic+.

Some other anti-feats for Percy and Jason having High Hypersonic+ combat/reaction speeds are:
1. That Percy has never been able to react to lightning, let alone use Riptide to block it. In MoA Jason was able to blast Percy without him being able to react and in The Titan's Curse, Thalia was able to hit Percy before he could even react.
2. Both Jason and Thalia have always had to raise their weapon before summoning a bolt of lightning. They always summon the lightning bolt to their weapon, they don't have to react to it.

This means that the speed stats of all the Demigods need to be revised as they currently don't have stats for travel or reaction speed and have combat speed stats that come from scaling to Percy and Jason, who's combat speed has been called into question.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

The calc is actually High Hypersonic+, the author rated it wrongly as High Hypersonic. I agree it should only be rated as combat speed/reactions. It's just that usually people are lazy when making profiles and do not make it clear enough.

The minimum of being invisible to the human eye is subsonic, but not necessarily the limit. Also as you said, Percy and Jason are viewed as a blur by fellow demigods with enhanced reactions as well.

Percy Jackson viewed the bullet in slow-motion, which sometimes gets up to Massively Hypersonic results such as Quicksilver (Marvel Cinematic Universe). It was also rather casual if I recall correctly. Although it was kinda weird "time slowed down" but he couldn't see the bullet but only felt it.

Nothing suggests Mach 3 is the peak speed for Ephilates either. Lower feats aren't sufficient evidence for a downgrade, anti-feats are. Giants are inconsistent af as well, one moment they're lightning timers outspeeding the sons of Zeus and Poseidon, another moment they are slow lumbering fools who get blitzed by Piper McLean.

Jason Grace's High Hypersonic+ feat is like quite a far distance away (which is why it's not even Mach 100), so Percy Jackson not being capable fo reacting to Thalia's lightning from a combat range makes perfect sense.

Raising their weapons isn't an anti-feat either. It's just summoning lightning. Thor raising his arm to grab Mjolnir doesn't mean it's an entire feat for Thor.

I agree their running/movement speed is definitely far lower though, probably Superhuman and Subsonic at best.

Also Kepekley23 mentioned that he thinks HHS+ is a low-ball in the downgrade thread, and that there are MHS and even Sub-Rel feats, but he's currently busy in real life so I can't ask him about it. I do remember a Mach 147 feat on Naruto Forums, but the link is broken now.

 

[FalseTrajectory]

The calc is actually High Hypersonic+, the author rated it wrongly as High Hypersonic. I agree it should only be rated as combat speed/reactions. It's just that usually people are lazy when making profiles and do not make it clear enough.

Which feat are you referring to? Jason's lightning deflection feat or Ephilates's... lightning deflection feat?

Percy Jackson viewed the bullet in slow-motion, which sometimes gets up to Massively Hypersonic results such as Quicksilver (Marvel Cinematic Universe). It was also rather casual if I recall correctly. Although it was kinda weird "time slowed down" but he couldn't see the bullet but only felt it.

I mean, if you've ever had a ball thrown at your face you can barely see it, but you can still raise your arms to block it. Now imagine that but the ball is now the size of a marble. That's basically what's happening here only the bullet would be even smaller than that, seeing as he charged at the Spartoi head on.

Nothing suggests Mach 3 is the peak speed for Ephilates either. Lower feats aren't sufficient evidence for a downgrade, anti-feats are. Giants are inconsistent af as well, one moment they're lightning timers outspeeding the sons of Zeus and Poseidon, another moment they are slow lumbering fools who get blitzed by Piper McLean.

I guess you're right, but also remember that each giant is every different from each other, just because Ephilates is a lightning timer doesn't mean that every giant is. However, you are right they are very, very inconsistent, especially when you compare statements about them and their actual feats

Jason Grace's High Hypersonic+ feat is like quite a far distance away (which is why it's not even Mach 100), so Percy Jackson not being capable fo reacting to Thalia's lightning from a combat range makes perfect sense.

Yeah, but that's the thing, it's not that much farther. Percy was stated to have been blasted backward three meters by Thalia's initial shock. He was that far away from her when she summoned down a lightning bolt which she then channelled into her spear and into Percy. Since Percy saw the lightning hitting her spear he should've been able to react in some way if he really did have High Hypersonic (or faster) reaction and combat speeds, before she even shot it at him, but nope he stands still and gets blasted. He doesn't even raise riptide, nor was there even a mention of him attempting to block it. Then if you look at Jason's feat he's standing on one end of the glass bridge and the Venti are standing by the door, and since they were directly opposite each other they could at most be 21m away from each other (the length of the walk way). However there's a problem with this assumption, there were two venti that charged at him at the same time, the first venti he slashed with his sword indicating that they were within melee range and the second of these venti blasted lighting at him. This means that this venti would've been as close if not closer than Percy was to Thalia, and unlike with the Thalia incident there was no warning that the venti was going to blast lightning at him. This indicates one of two things, that Percy has gotten much faster since his run in with Thalia to be equal with Jason in combat or that this feat is an outlier, or at least isn't a speed feat that can be carried over to Percy.

Raising their weapons isn't an anti-feat either. It's just summoning lightning. Thor raising his arm to grab Mjolnir doesn't mean it's an entire feat for Thor.

It's not an anti-feat per se, but it's not a feat either. Basically my whole point is that they can't be used as evidence to support demigods being lightning timers.

I agree their running/movement speed is definitely far lower though, probably Superhuman and Subsonic at best.

Percy, besides having a bunch of travel speed feats that put him above peak-humans, actually has three feats that would be absolutely amazing if they were a little more specific. The first comes from TTC, where Percy is able to run 10 yards faster than a person can yell for help, the second comes from TLO where he runs on water and the third comes from SoS (Son of Sobek) where he's upper-cutted backward out of sight (presumably over the horizon) and returns in a very short amount of time. All of these feats would place him squarely in the Subsonic range of speed (80-120 Km/h). How every one of these feats are nebulous at best due to the sheer amount of assumptions you would have to make to get a quantitative speed.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I'm referring to Jason, it was over Mach 50 and mislabelled in the calculation.

Yeah but I wouldn't have such fast perception that things slow down like the bullet did, XD. Also if you are right that Percy clearly saw the lightning as you say the narration says, it's just him being stupid not to dodge or block it, since he literally could react to it? A possible explanation, as well as the bullet thing, is that he has higher reactions than combat speed. That is also supported by Piper McLean only seeing Jason and Percy as blurs but can keep up with giants and other opponents on that speed level. The part about Jason is a fair point though, and that feat kinda takes away that possible explanation, as well as them fighting and reacting to each other.

Wouldn't running on water be kind of a "son of Poseidon" thing though? The other 2 feats probably support subsonic though. There's also this thing I brought up before, but Regis seems to disagree with it and I personally don't recall it either so I can't really make a judgement.

 

[AKM sama]

I will ping some of the members knowledgeable about the verse as this probably needs more attention.

@The_real_cal_howard @Zaratthustra @Jvando @AnonymousBlank @The_2nd_Existential_Seed

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

imma ping @Kepekley23 too since he said he remembers some faster speed feats on OBD

 

[FalseTrajectory]

Wouldn't running on water be kind of a "son of Poseidon" thing though?

I mean blocking a bolt of lightning could also be considered a "son of Zeus" thing. I brought the feat up because Percy never mentions solidifying the water to run over it (which he has done in the past to allow a chariot to ride over water), but because he has done so in the past in stands to reason that he also did that here too, but there's no real way to tell (also there's another great range feat in the Chariot of Ares where Percy turns the water from the Staten Island Ferry Terminal to Pier 86 solid that should really be added to his profile, seeing as those two locations are over 14 Km away from each other). Same with the getting punched over the horizon feat. Percy presumably had his back to long island sound and since Carter was standing in an outlet leading directly into Moriches Bay and the distance to the horizon from his vantage point would be 4.7 Km away it seems as if Percy would've been in water for a majority of his trip back (also the fact that we don't how far over the horizon Percy actually went, so we could calculate how fast he would need to move to cover the minimum distance he would need to travel).

Also I forgot to mention an anti-feat for Jason where he couldn't react to rounds fired from a pair of flintlock pistols. However, seeing as the pistols were magically super-accurate, could magically reloaded and the owner of said Flintlocks robbed demigods for a living, it stands to reason that they also fired rounds faster than regular flintlocks (I mean they are magic), but this can't really be backed up in canon.

 

[FalseTrajectory]

I think there's an unquantifiable speed feat in SoN where Percy, Frank and Hazel cover a quarter mile faster than a modern train and a flock of Griffins that could out-speed said train. It's been awhile since I read SoN since it's one of the only books by Rick Riordan I don't own (the other being the lightning thief), so I can't remember why exactly they were unquantifiable so I hope someone else could confirm this.
I'm going to go to bed which means I probably won't be able to respond for awhile, but I definitely want to see this revision through.

 

[InfiniteSped]

I agree that the speed should be downgraded. Arion, the speedster of the group, is roughly mach 1, and while on the horseback Frank just saw the landscape around him as a blur, and got sick from the sheer speed.

He’d already thrown up twice from the back of the chariot, which was not fun at the speed of sound. The horse seemed to bend time and space as he ran, blurring the landscape and making Frank feel like he’d just drunk a gallon of whole milk without his lactose-intolerance medicine. Ella didn’t help matters. She kept muttering: “Seven hundred and fifty miles per hour. Eight hundred. Eight hundred and three. Fast. Very fast.” - Son of Neptune, chapter 33

Ella herself is impressed by the speed, and the demigods also consider her pretty fast.

“Ella. Aella. ‘Harpy.’ In English. In Latin. Ella doesn’t like cheese.” She said all that without taking a breath or making eye contact. Her hands snatched at her hair, her burlap dress, the raindrops, whatever moved.

Quicker than Percy could blink, she lunged, snatched the cinnamon burrito, and appeared atop the elephant again.
"Gods, she’s fast!” Hazel said.
“And heavily caffeinated,” Frank guessed - Son of Neptune, chapter 27

No one but gods is that much faster than Arion, so I don't think High Hypersonic really works.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Same on downgrading their speed but wasn’t Arion extremely weighed down by the chariot and gold at the time? It doesn’t seem to fit with how an Arion with nothing to slow him down doesn’t make Frank sick when Alcyoneus was brought to Canada or when Hazel ferried people in later books. There are similar stuff where the campers are on Pegasi using fast travel but don’t get sick from the same stuff. It seems to be more of a motion sickness thing in that quote.

 

[InfiniteSped]

That is right when they first get him, so they're on a chariot, but no gold.

That said, him being sound speed is mentioned when they're just hiding on horseback as well:

The boat captains in Seward had warned her it was three hundred nautical miles to the Hubbard Glacier, a hard, dangerous journey, but Arion had no trouble. He raced over the water at the speed of sound, heating the air around them so that Hazel didn’t even feel the cold. On foot, she never would have felt so brave. On horseback, she couldn’t wait to charge into battle. - Son of Neptune, chapter 43

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Looks like imma have to reread it if I am forgetting the events lol.

Now that I remember, something was brought up earlier about Percy possibly getting faster. I’d say this is a definite as he was previously getting out done or being matched by Hunters and campers but come TLO pre Curse and SoN, he was vastly outperforming those people or superior to others like Nico that were > said people. Even complete noobs like Piper and Leo were doing as well as Hunters post Titanomachy who would be at least as good as before. No matter how you look at it, Percy has to be faster than before given he 1v1’d Polybotes >= Enceladus who was relative to Jason and getting faster the whole time.

 

[InfiniteSped]

I don't recall him being matched by campers or hunters, at least after the first book.

He didn't actually engage in melee with Polybotes, at least during Son of Neptune, iirc. Polybotes threw some poison at him, Percy directed it back to blind him, then stabbed the guy while he couldn't see. He then ran away, dodged a single attack to make Polybotes enter that line that Terminus didn't like people passing through, then attacked by surprise again, briefly downing the giant before killing him with the statue's head, which is a god and thus capable of killing a giant along with Percy.

In Jason's case, he actually fought a melee battle with Eceladus, which is a completely different situation, really. Percy was more good tactics and taking advantage of his enemy's arrogance. Jason was also being slowed by the ground sinking below his feet, and even then he mentioned that the giant was slow, now that I went back to check.

The battle had started well enough. Jason’s instincts kicked in, and his gut told him he’d dueled opponents almost this big before. Size and strength equaled slowness, so Jason just had to be quicker—pace himself, wear out his opponent,and avoid getting smashed or flame-broiled.

[...]

Enceladus’s spear missed him by a millimeter. Jason kept dodging, but the ground stuck to his feet. Gaea was getting stronger, and the giant was getting faster. Enceladus might be slow, but he wasn’t dumb. He began anticipating Jason’s moves, and Jason’s attacks were only annoying him, making him more enraged.

- The Lost Hero, chapter 43

Then the spear broke, they managed to slow him down a bit, then killed the guy with Zeus's help.

All that said, yes, Jason and Percy are faster than other demigods, but it's not an orders of magnitude difference, imo. They're surely not faster than Arion, at least.

 

[FalseTrajectory]

I'm pretty sure that Arion's top speed is around Mach 3 or 5. Also, Frank was only viewing the landscape around him as a blur because Arion supposedly bends space and time like Centaurs do IC. Additionally, Pegasus are able to travel ridiculously fast, Black Jack and two other Pegasai were able to travel from San Francisco to New York in a short conversation in TTC and a team of two Pegasai were able to haul a chariot filled with five people (Annabeth, Butch, Jason, Piper and Leo) from the Grand Canyon to Long Island in the span of another short conversation.

And as said prior while Percy and Jason are comparatively fast to other Demigods they shouldn't be orders of magnitudes faster, it just doesn't make sense IC and scaling wise.

 

[AKM sama]

Has there been any consensus on any of the topics so far?

 

[FalseTrajectory]

That the speeds feats (in all three categories) for the Riordanverse demigods need to be reviewed, recalculated and revised?

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Regarding Arion, that's probably more about running speed, and I definitely agree demigods are Subsonic at best in that regard.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I mean blocking a bolt of lightning could also be considered a "son of Zeus" thing.

You know what that's not completely ridiculous given how Greek mythology shit works in the story.

 

[AKM sama]

@ Spino

You can take help from other calc members too in order to review and recalculate the speed feats if necessary.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

The math for the lightning blocking is fine itself, at least no one found any issues

 

[FalseTrajectory]

The math for the lightning blocking is fine itself, at least no one found any issues

For the Jason lightning blocking feat? I literally just brought up an issue with the calculation in this very thread. Jason was within melee range from the Venti that shot lightning at him, which is a far cry from the 21 meters that was used in both the high-end and low-end calcs for the feat.

 

[FalseTrajectory]

You know what that's not completely ridiculous given how Greek mythology shit works in the story.

You know what, you might be onto something. During this fight Jason had amnesia and was completely unaware that he was a demigod and of his powers and was using them subconsciously. Literally one page before Jason preforms the lightning block feat he subconsciously used his wind manipulation to make a thrown club curve to hit a target in gale force winds. Additionally, the book never mentions Jason raising his Gladius and simply that "His sword absorbed the charge.". This could mean that he used his lightning manipulation abilities subconsciously to both sense that a lightning bolt was going to be shot at him and redirect the blast into his sword like he and Thalia do consciously when calling down and redirecting lightning.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Arion's at least just seems to be sheer speed rather than space-bending. I know the centaurs seem to specifically bend space somehow, and the Lost Hero instance might have been due to the magic chariot Annabeth had gotten.

For the Titan's Curse, there are these statements for the speed they're flying:

We flew over a town , an island of lights in the middle of the dark. It whisked by so fast we might've been in an airplane

[...]

The towns were zipping by faster now, islands of light thicker together, until the whole landscape was a glittering carpet. Dawn was close. The eastern sky was turning gray.

And up ahead, a huge white-and-yellow glow spread out before us - the lights of New York.

"How's that speedy, boss?", Blackjack bragged. "We get extra hay for breakfast or what?" - Titan's Curse, chapter 18

Which does seem like they're just going that fast, although Artemis could have been helping out somehow, I guess. She did call them there and they arrived in just a few seconds in the first place. Besides that, it seems to take a bit for them to accelerate to such speeds.

For other speed feats that I can recall, Blackjack did grab Annabeth while she was surrounded by other demigods and seemingly within Kronos' striking range before anyone could react:

"Bravely fought, Percy Jackson," he said. "But it's time to surrender . . . or the girl dies."

"Percy, don't," Annabeth groaned. Her shirt was soaked with blood. I had to get her out of here.

"Blackjack!" I yelled.

As fast as light, the pegasus swooped down and clamped his teeth on the straps of Annabeth's armor. They soared away over the river before the enemy could even react. - The Last Olympian, chapter 11

They're surely very fast normally, although the travel ones could be due to the magical chariot and divine intervention, I guess. I'm a bit hesitant to say they're just that fast considering how many missions are just traveling from point A to point B, if you can cover that in 2 minutes then most of the books are a tad pointless. And I think there are instances where they take a lot longer, like Reyna taking a few days to reach Europe from New York, iirc.

 

[FalseTrajectory]

Arion's at least just seems to be sheer speed rather than space-bending. I know the centaurs seem to specifically bend space somehow, and the Lost Hero instance might have been due to the magic chariot Annabeth had gotten.

For the Titan's Curse, there are these statements for the speed they're flying:



Which does seem like they're just going that fast, although Artemis could have been helping out somehow, I guess. She did call them there and they arrived in just a few seconds in the first place. Besides that, it seems to take a bit for them to accelerate to such speeds.

For other speed feats that I can recall, Blackjack did grab Annabeth while she was surrounded by other demigods and seemingly within Kronos' striking range before anyone could react:


They're surely very fast normally, although the travel ones could be due to the magical chariot and divine intervention, I guess. I'm a bit hesitant to say they're just that fast considering how many missions are just traveling from point A to point B, if you can cover that in 2 minutes then most of the books are a tad pointless. And I think there are instances where they take a lot longer, like Reyna taking a few days to reach Europe from New York, iirc.

Unless you have proof of divine intervention or the chariot magically boosted the speed of the Pegasai by a hughe amount, despite the fact that the speed feat in TLH is actually slower than the one in TTC, then they are in fact that fast. All feats are feats unless there is any evidence (anti-feats etc.) proving that they are not.

As for most of the books being rendered pointless if Pegasai are actually that fast then you clearly haven't read them in a while. Rick specifically addresses this seeming "plot-hole" in the very first book in the series by giving an explanation in the very first book that Percy can't fly without Zeus striking him out of the sky. In every book there has almost always some reason why they couldn't or wouldn't fly from point A to B that fast and in both cases presented they do travel that fast from point A to B because there was a time limit and they needed to.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Annabeth asked to borrow the chariot specifically from that Apollo demigod, it could very well be made for fast travel like that, same with Artemis, she's the one who called them in the first place.

That said, I don't think it really matters. Either case shouldn't really scale to the demigods, since the whole landscape was blurring from Percy's perspective in TTC, and in TLH this is how the travel happens:

“Anemoi come in different shapes,” Annabeth said. “Sometimes human, sometimes stallions, depending on howchaotic they are. Hold on. This is going to get rough.”

Butch flicked the reins. The pegasi put on a burst of speed, and the chariot blurred. Piper’s stomach crawled into her throat. Her vision went black, and when it came back to normal, they were in a totally different place - The Lost Hero, chapter 3

More of a warp speed while Piper can't really comprehend what even happened. Early on Jason even says that the chariot was too slow for a plane:

At first Jason thought Leo had hit his head too hard. Then he saw a dark shape descending from the east—too slow for a plane, too large for a bird. - The Lost Hero, chapter 2

So, in both cases they at least need to accelerate considerably to get to those speeds, and the demigods can't quite keep up, same with Arion. So it shouldn't be too relevant besides for god scaling and profiles for the pegasus themselves.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Don't pegasus have far higher speed calcs?

 

[FalseTrajectory]

Annabeth asked to borrow the chariot specifically from that Apollo demigod, it could very well be made for fast travel like that, same with Artemis, she's the one who called them in the first place.

That said, I don't think it really matters. Either case shouldn't really scale to the demigods, since the whole landscape was blurring from Percy's perspective in TTC, and in TLH this is how the travel happens:


More of a warp speed while Piper can't really comprehend what even happened. Early on Jason even says that the chariot was too slow for a plane:


So, in both cases they at least need to accelerate considerably to get to those speeds, and the demigods can't quite keep up, same with Arion. So it shouldn't be too relevant besides for god scaling and profiles for the pegasus themselves.

I think you misunderstand my intentions with talking about Arion and the Pegasai being fast. I never even insinuated that I thought the Demigods would scale to them in terms of travel speed. That would be ridiculous. If they could travel that fast by foot then none of these stories would make sense, as you said would be the case if Pegasai could travel that fast. I don't even think they have reaction speed feats anywhere near High Hypersonic+ for the very reasons you just listed. I was simply stating that Arion and the Pegasai in the series are much faster then you give them credit of being. This wasn't really in relation to the current discussion but more a side tangent on speed in general in the Riordanverse.

I personally believe from all the feats I have seen from the Demigods in the Riordanverse that they are around supersonic+ in terms of combat and reaction speeds and subsonic in terms of travel speed and I will keep believing this until someone corrects me and informs me of feats that prove otherwise. So I agree with you that their speed needs to be downgraded from High Hypersonic+ and that the profiles specify which type of speed a speed tier applies to (travel, action or combat).

As you already stated prior Piper viewed the sudden burst of speed as a blur, which indicates that her perceptions are below Hyper-sonic (an conservative estimate of the speed the Pegasai were traveling in that scene). This sudden burst of speed also indicates that that's all it was, a burst of speed. They don't fly at those incredible speeds all the time because they can only manage short bursts at a time. This is why Blackjack was boasting and calling attention to the fact that the got from San Francisco to New York in a few minutes in TTC. He usually doesn't fly that fast because it presumably tires him and other Pegasai out (similar to sprinting for humans) and Percy would've been used to him flying slow like at the beginning of the book were he was forced to trail behind a car at high-way speeds or slower on the way there.

Also, I think you may have misinterpreted Jason's statement about the Pegasai descending too slowly to be planes, key word there being descending. Planes need to travel at a certain speed to glide/stay in the air and land safely. In this instant the Pegasai were descending too slowly to be planes because they have wings, which would allow them to descend slowly and comfortably (which is also why they needed the flying chariot from Apollo, a regular chariot simply wouldn't have worked). This there was no rush for them to get to the ground fast as all the monsters had already been defeated so they wouldn't have needed to divebomb or descend any faster then they did.

Also just one more thing. Do you have an proof that the Chariot makes Pegasai faster and that Artemis was magically boosting the speed of the Pegasai, despite they themselves stating that traveling from San Francisco to New York in a few minutes was complexly normal? Do you have statements, feats, anything at all to back up these assumptions?

 

[FalseTrajectory]

Don't pegasus have far higher speed calcs?

Yes, actually. However, due to the nebulous nature of their feats they are hard to quantify and pin-point exactly how fast they were going. They could've been moving at anywhere from between Mach 3 to Mach 30, we simply just don't know enough to say for sure. Although we can just say that they are at least [Insert Speed Tier] and take the minimum speed they would have to be moving (which is equally as hard as pinpointing exactly what speed they were going).

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

They have a Mach 60 feat iirc.

 

[FalseTrajectory]

They have a Mach 60 feat iirc.

Yes, but that's a high-end calc. You can't argue that they were that fast then you could argue that they were any slower because their is no real evidence and from a calc point of view the absolute minimum has to be taken if there is no evidence supporting it being any faster.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

The calc doesn't really look high-balled to me, it assumes a length of 3 minutes.

 

[FalseTrajectory]

The calc doesn't really look high-balled to me, it assumes a length of 3 minutes.

I mean that's pretty fast for a couple page's worth of talking. It's not impossible to say that much in 3 minutes but it is unlikely. Also, we don't know how long the breaks in between each conversation were. Obviously, the conversation didn't happen over multiple hours, as it was near mid-night when they took off from San Francisco and they arrived at the Empire State Building just as the Winter Solstice started, which is around ~1 am in the morning, but we don't know enough to say that it took any less than that.

I may be mis-remembering how long the conversation took as it's been awhile since I've read TTC so I could be wrong about that. I'll need to double check.

 

[FalseTrajectory]

@ Spino

You can take help from other calc members too in order to review and recalculate the speed feats if necessary.

So do we create a new thread? Where do I go to get calcs approved and how do I get help with calculating feats? Also, what about tidying up the speed categories for all of these profiles as they don't specify which speed tier is for which speed type?

 

[AKM sama]

You can get your calcs approved by any calc member by requesting here:

Calculation Evaluations (New forum)

This thread is intended for users to link to new blog post calculations, to relay them to the community, and have them evaluated by the calculation group, without contacting the members individually. To evaluate important off-site calculations, preferably copy them to blog posts in this wiki...

vsbattles.com

You can also ask the calc members if you need any help in calculating feats.

@Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan Are you willing to help out with whatever changes need to be made here? Or is there a need for a new thread?

 

[FalseTrajectory]

@Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan Are available to help with the calculations?

 

[AKM sama]

Ping from regular users don't work. And the forum notifications can be funny sometimes, so I'll ping him again just to make sure.
@Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

What is needed to be recalculated though?

 

[Antvasima]

What is needed to be recalculated though?

@AKM sama

 

[FalseTrajectory]

The feats that need to be calculated are the handful of midrange subsonic travel speed feats.
Other than that the all of the Demigod's profiles need to be fixed so that they specify which speed is what tier as it currently uses High Hypersonic+ to describe Travel, Reaction and Combat speeds, even though only Jason has a calculated High Hypersonic+ combat speed feat.

Additionally, we need to get more members to comment on downgrading Jason's lightning blocking feat to "Possibly High Hypersonic+" instead of just having it being stated as a fact because the books never mention him moving or doing anything at all in reaction to the bolt of lightning. All the book says is that his "[...] sword absorbed the charge.". Also, since Jason is much closer to the Venti than the calc suggests (melee range) this is leaning more towards it being outlier than an actual feat. Also, also Percy at equal or greater range (3 meters, as stated by the book) wasn't even able to react to a telegraphed lightning bolt fired at him. Despite Percy being 2 years younger than Jason when this happened it still makes this feat dubious at best, considering their (Jason and Percy's) next best combat speed feat is around Supersonic+.

 

[AKM sama]

@AKM sama

I am not knowledgeable about the verse, so I was just going off of what FalseTrajectory was saying. But he has already mentioned all the things needed to be done now.