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Rider vs. Rider: Medusa vs. Iskandar

Iskander has C rank mana, which is the worst thing possible when Medusa uses her mystic eyes, and her mount has really strong defenses which Iskander's army of servent level soldiers without noble phantasms probably wouldn't be able to damage.
 
I cast revive on this thread.

"Anyone without considerable Magic Resistance will be instantly petrified"

Medusa takes off her blindfold and he almost immediatly dies. Archer's own D-rank magic resistance did absolutely nothing to stop Cybele in a meaningful way.

So Medusa takes this pretty decisively.
 
For even more memes, Medusa doesn't even need her eyes.

Her Pegasus is crazy strong, far superior to something like Iskandar's Via Expugnatio, since Via Expugnatio was vaporized by Excalibur, while Medusa's Pegasus was capable of directly contesting Excalibur with some assistance. It's very likely that if it came down to a straight punch out between the two, the Pegasus would win out.

If she gets prep, she uses full power BfA, and not even Archer, someone with more Mana and the same magic resistance, could fight for very long under its effects.

If we take it to a straight punching match between the two servants, Medusa can blitz Hassan of the Cursed Arm (who has A rank AGI) quite casually, and would also outright be stronger than Iskandar thanks to her Monstrous Strength skill.

Basically, the only reason this isn't a stomp is because none of this would happen before Iskandar can take action, and he technically could win, but it is insanely unlikely.
 
I'll vote Iskandar. Iskandar primarily fights with Gordius, whereas Medusa more often then not fights on foot. This basically has Medusa one step behind Iskandar throughout the whole fight. When Pegasus gets whipped out, Via Expugnatio becomes Iskandar's only viable option, but seeing as Medusa's speed is scaled to Artoria's, and we saw what Via Expugnatio did to her, its largely possible that Iskandar could deal some sufficient damage with it. Another way this could go is Iskandar Via Expugnatios as soon as he realizes Medusa and him are of similar strength while hes using a Noble Phantasm (Gordius), absolutely obliterating her. Ionio Hetairoi could also serve as a detraction if Cybele factors in, her line of sight focusing on the thousands of soldiers in front of her while getting struck from the back.
 
Uh, dude.

At any point she can take of her blindfold and he dies. She doesn't need line of sight. Picturing the eye in your mind does the trick too.
 
KnightOfSunlight said:
Uh, dude.
At any point she can take of her blindfold and he dies. She doesn't need line of sight. Picturing the eye in your mind does the trick too.
The possession of Mystic Eyes, abnormal eyes that can influence the World. Rider possesses the Mystic Eyes of Petrification, Cybele, which allow her to petrify anything within her line of sight, even those who aren't looking at her or those with their eyes closed, as they are still looking upon Rider with their mind's eye
 
And herein lies the issue. Iskandar winning requires Medusa to never take off her blindfold, which she will inevitably do.

In fact, it's in character for her to ope with that.
 
KnightOfSunlight said:
And herein lies the issue. Iskandar winning requires Medusa to never take off her blindfold, which she will inevitably do.
In fact, it's in character for her to ope with that.
Or that he doesnt enter her line of vision with the blindfold off, which is entirely possible and fairly likely (as the blindfold is usually removed upward, which would paralyze Gordius bulls first)
 
Actually, let me break this down

" Iskandar primarily fights with Gordius, whereas Medusa more often then not fights on foot. This basically has Medusa one step behind Iskandar throughout the whole fight."

And here's the biggest issue with the argument. In any scenario where Medusa is on the back foot or a step behind, her in character action is to unseal Breaker Gorgon and use Cybele. In an ironic sense, Iskandar starting with an advantage is the absolute worst part about this, as it accelerates the usage of somethign he absolutely cannot answer.

"Medusa's speed is scaled to Artoria's"

Incorrect. Medusa's speed is scaled to casually blitzing Cursed Arm Hassan, who has A rank AGI. Medusa has the speed advantage and the manuverability advantage, as whil she is still possibly slower than Gordius, she is certainly more manuverable than it, in all circumstances.

"and we saw what Via Expugnatio did to her, its largely possible that Iskandar could deal some sufficient damage with it."

You mean what she did to it. She annihilated it without a second thought. Were it to come down between it and her Pegasus, the Pegasus wins because it could still contest a blast that was more powerful than the one that destroyed Expugnatio.

" Another way this could go is Iskandar Via Expugnatios as soon as he realizes Medusa and him are of similar strength while hes using a Noble Phantasm (Gordius), absolutely obliterating her"

Not only is this out of character for him, its also going to happen a second too late, likely just behind Breaker Gorgon being unsealed. And there's no saying whether or not she can just dodge it, which it not impossible because of her dodging Excalibur's blasts

"Ionio Hetairoi could also serve as a detraction if Cybele factors in, her line of sight focusing on the thousands of soldiers in front of her while getting struck from the back."

None of his troops have magic resistance, and his won't stop her eyes. She sweeps her line of sight over them and they all turn into statues.
 
Also, from what I can see: Via Expungio is stronger than Pegasus, Medusa doesn't often start with Cybele, and Iskandar with Gordius seems to hold the speed advantage, meaning Iskandar has ever opportunity to finish her off before she becomes a threat
 
She always starts with Cybele as long as Sakura is her master (which is the case here)

The reason people think she doesn't is that doing so under Wakame would've killed her and him because of the mana cost. Which isn't a problem under Sakura because nearly infinite mana.
 
And Via Expugnatio is not stronger than Pegasus.

One was destroyed completely from Normal Artoria's Excalibur.

The other contested for a brief while with an AMPED Excalibur
 
Cybele wasn't used during the Fate route, the UBW route, and once briefly during the HF route, and she started on foot all three times

Her profile basically says she can outpace Saber and run circles around Saber Alter, to whom Iskandar is equal to on foot. Gordius should be able to outpace Medusa, let alone Via

Pegasus was demolished with no resistance, I just watched the fight. I'll go back and watch Iskandar v Artoria, but I don't remember it being that bad.

As the tactician he is, since he's not trying to prove a point like he was against Artiora, he would try to finish the fight as quick as possible. It would be strategically flawed to let his opponent use their NP on him.

The focus would still be in the opposite direction as Iskandar's likely approach.
 
They are both A+ Anti Army NPs. The one used by normal Saber and Saber Alter is not one bit different. Saber Alter can just spam it. Don't try to use that as a point of comparison.

But while the bulls would already be comparable to the Pegasus, Bellerophon makes the Pegasus even stronger, upgrading all stats by one rank and multiplying it's defensive power already on the level of a dragon by several times. Pegasus by all means should have the advantage.
 
Cyebele was used during against EMIYA, and then again against Saber Alter. One of which would've been blitzed by Medusa, and the other of which was more powerful. It is in character for her to use it.

Her profile scaling her to Saber fails to account for Cursed Arm Hassan, who she blitzed.

A weakened Pegasus. VS the End of Heaven's Feel where it manages to contest Excalibur Morgan for a brief bit before Shirou uses Rho Aias to push Medusa to victory.

And Iskandar may be a tactician, but he doesn't behave tactically at all. He announces his presence to two knight classes, Berserker, and Gilgamesh as his first major action. That's not tactical. That's borderline stupid. It is also strategically flawed to let two of your greatest enemies see your ultimate tump card. And even more so to charge someone who is using their NOBLE PHANTASM, one that you know full well the power of.

And Iskandar never once uses an unconventional approach in his RM. He charges, even against someone like Gilgamesh, where a tactical approach would've been immensely useful.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
They are both A+ Anti Army NPs. The one used by normal Saber and Saber Alter is not one bit different. Saber Alter can just spam it. Don't try to use that as a point of comparison.
But while the bulls would already be comparable to the Pegasus, Bellerophon makes the Pegasus even stronger, upgrading all stats by one rank and multiplying it's defensive power already on the level of a dragon by several times. Pegasus by all means should have the advantage.
Bellerophon is only listed as being able to stop EM with Rho Aias's help, wouldn't that only make it slightly stronger, or am I misunderstanding?
 
Pegasus wasn't able to overcome it, but it was able to at least hold out under it until Shirou gave it the push in the form of Rho Aias to help. Which makes it superior because Excalibur obliterated VE in a swipe.
 
As I said, Gordius Wheel and Pegasus are of the same rank. Both got completely destroyed without a chance to do anything by an Excali blast, there's no level of comparison there. Using the Rho Aias case just feels dishonest when weakened Saber completely destroyed Weakened Rider's Pegasus in Fate route.

But again, there's nothing really especial to the bulls, while the Pegasus has his defensive power really emphasized and Bellerophon multiplies it by several times. Beast to beast, the Pegasus should be a bit stronger and have much better defense than the bulls. This is without accounting for Cybele.
 
I'll watch those fights to get a better idea of what Iskandar can do.

I have to go based on what her profile says, and right now, that says that Iskandar would have the speed advantage.

Ahhh okay, I watched the Fate route, my apologies. If thats the case, Pegasus Bellerophon sounds to be stronger, but not to the point of oneshotting, giving Iskandar some wiggle room.

The first example, yes that's stupid, but it isn't foolhardy. He doesn't take cheap shots and he makes his presence known, which seems pretty innocent in the long and short of it. The second example, tbf, he didn't have much of a choice. Finally, again, tbf, if he had been slightly faster, Fate/Stay Night would've been a very different story. Also, his stubbornness and arrogance in that fight could be attributed to his feelings specifically toward Artoria

Against someone would oneshots your whole army with a look, I think Iskandar is willing to strategize. As far as Gil, he'd lost the fight before it even began.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
As I said, Gordius Wheel and Pegasus are of the same rank. Both got completely destroyed without a chance to do anything by an Excali blast, there's no level of comparison there. Using the Rho Aias case just feels dishonest when weakened Saber completely destroyed Weakened Rider's Pegasus in Fate route.
But again, there's nothing really especial to the bulls, while the Pegasus has his defensive power really emphasized and Bellerophon multiplies it by several times. Beast to beast, the Pegasus should be a bit stronger and have much better defense than the bulls. This is without accounting for Cybele.
Understood, Pegasus should have a decent advantage
 
KnightOfSunlight said:
Pegasus wasn't able to overcome it, but it was able to at least hold out under it until Shirou gave it the push in the form of Rho Aias to help. Which makes it superior because Excalibur obliterated VE in a swipe.
That's... not really worth anything. At no point do I remember the writing implying this lasted long. And I don't see Pegasus getting a boost bigger than Excalibur to go from instant wipe in fate to holding on whole seconds. That was just dramatic timing.
 
Also, on top of A+ Luck, its worth mentioning that, due to prior engagements, Iskandar was slightly weakened against Artoria. Would it make a huge difference against Pegasus? Probably not. Is it a distinction without a difference? No. Iskandar was also able to dodge Excalibur point blank while charging straight at it (the reason he didn't get severly damaged when Goridus got destroyed).
 
I don't see it making any sort of worthwhile difference, and luck isn't gonna interfere here. What role it could play would be utter speculation.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
I don't see it making any sort of worthwhile difference, and luck isn't gonna interfere here. What role it could play would be utter speculation.
This seems incredibly important in dealing with Cybele

Servants with B-rank Luck or higher can change their own fates to evade inevitable outcomes
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Until we see it working on a continuous effect, I am not gonna assume it can do much if anything.
I was think more along the lines of "Iskandar summons Ionio and Medusa focuses on them while Iskandar get a solid shot off" or "Medusa doesn't start with Cybele and Iskandar blinds her in combat" or something like that
 
Even if Iskandar just summons Eumenes, Parmenion, Hephaestion, and Ptolemy in all different directions, A+ Luck could allow for him to make the most out of that situation
 
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