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Rematch Shia Haulia vs Fiamma of the Right (6-9-0)
- Thread starter Expectro2000xxx
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Now the reason of why to do a rematch is because I think the first thread was wrong, now I'm gonna say why:
First of all, Shia already have surpassed enemies who teleport, various actually and a lot of times, and it wasn't by strategy but pure battle sense because she is mostly a muscle head.
Second, the hammer have a anti-magic property that was enough to fight the desintegration of various of the most powerful apostles, so that should weaken the hand.
Third, Shia can automatically see the future when in danger and can see 2 second in the future with little magic power, with more magic power she can see the future futher than that.
Fourth, even though speed is equalized that's in base, with her amps she can reach MFTL, so Fiamma shouldn't be able to react to her, only the hand.
Fifth, in first place seems like in this key Fiamma have a limit of use of the hand, I think that even if that wasn't the case she still have more possibilities of winning but if that's the case then the probabilities are even more in her favor.
This isn't a stomp because if he touch her she would die, but there are more probabilities in favor of Shia.
First of all, Shia already have surpassed enemies who teleport, various actually and a lot of times, and it wasn't by strategy but pure battle sense because she is mostly a muscle head.
Second, the hammer have a anti-magic property that was enough to fight the desintegration of various of the most powerful apostles, so that should weaken the hand.
Third, Shia can automatically see the future when in danger and can see 2 second in the future with little magic power, with more magic power she can see the future futher than that.
Fourth, even though speed is equalized that's in base, with her amps she can reach MFTL, so Fiamma shouldn't be able to react to her, only the hand.
Fifth, in first place seems like in this key Fiamma have a limit of use of the hand, I think that even if that wasn't the case she still have more possibilities of winning but if that's the case then the probabilities are even more in her favor.
This isn't a stomp because if he touch her she would die, but there are more probabilities in favor of Shia.
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The first match all talked like Shia didn't have any win condition, but with the reasons I mentioned above that shouldn't be the case, that's why I wanted to remade this. Gonna vote?
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Bump.
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Fiamma's right hand should, in theory, negate anything it considers "evil". But to what extent... I do not know.
But I am going to vote Shia because of her soul hax and also because of her precognition. I doubt his right hand would negate either as we haven't got feats of him doing it.
Fiamma does have a wincon, if he goes for sealing or bfr her to an insane place (like space or sun), but to my recalling that wasn't his first move.
But I am going to vote Shia because of her soul hax and also because of her precognition. I doubt his right hand would negate either as we haven't got feats of him doing it.
Fiamma does have a wincon, if he goes for sealing or bfr her to an insane place (like space or sun), but to my recalling that wasn't his first move.
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Reactive Power Level + Ressurection + Info Manip = Holy Right eventually depleting.
Vote for Shia.
Vote for Shia.
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Bump.
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Bump.
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Bump.
Heavens_Feel
She/Her- 227
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Dude the misinformation surrounding this verse is insane. Also the blind leading the blind.
Looked at this girls profile, i can't see anything that stops her being oneshotted immediately by HR.
Also this Confluctor guy is wrong. Fiamma doesn't have a limited amount of uses per day, I vaguely remember this being a misinterpretation of the text again, where Fiamma arm would slowly disapparate over time and become unusable after it's gone, and he would need to pull it out again.
“That right arm has to have limits on its use,” said Vento interrupting his casual speech. “...” Fiamma stopped speaking, but Vento’s voice continued. “Because you played around with those small fries, it has already begun to disintegrate into the air. [...] Once your stock runs out, you are nothing more than a regular human.”
This does not mean it has a limited amount of uses per day. i'm nearly 100% certain that's where this misinformation came from
So basically Fiamma can use the Holy Right as much as he wants in a certain period of time... however we also find out that this is completely redundant as with the Index controller this time limit is removed.
“It seems I cannot avoid having it disintegrate into the air, but I have succeeded in fixing it in that state.” [...] That device allowed Fiamma to freely pull out any information he wanted from the knowledge of the 103,000 grimoires. “To put it bluntly, I no longer have any limits.” ~Fiamma
Out of courtesy i'll respond to the OP's post
First of all, Shia already have surpassed enemies who teleport, various actually and a lot of times, and it wasn't by strategy but pure battle sense because she is mostly a muscle head.
This is actually not important at all, Fiamma doesn't need to teleport as the HR will automatically lock on her and destroy her. Fiamma won't have to do anything. Also this is a incredibly vague summary and is not very useful.
Also, when you say dealing with teleporters, im curious has she dealt with teleporters who can teleport the entire distance of the planet at will and oneshot from 1000s of kilometres away?
>Second, the hammer have a anti-magic property that was enough to fight the desintegration of various of the most powerful apostles, so that should weaken the hand.
I highly doubt this hammer is anywhere near as potent as Imagine Breaker,which the HR has came into contact before and was just fine (and other spells that resisted IB aswell, ie: flame sword) but this also doesn't matter because Fiamma is going to just immediately oneshot her.
>Third, Shia can automatically see the future when in danger and can see 2 second in the future with little magic power, with more magic power she can see the future futher than that.
Ok she sees into the future when shes in danger, but She will already be defeated so.. it's kinda a mute point. The HR strikes with the exact amount of power required to defeat a opponent and it will always hit. Whether Fiamma actively does the handwave that oneshots her or the HR takes action on it's own, the result is the same.
to quote the novels here:
The Holy Right's strike is capable of ending everything it touches and reaching anything when swung
>Fourth, even though speed is equalized that's in base, with her amps she can reach MFTL, so Fiamma shouldn't be able to react to her, only the hand.
Eh, can you really allow speed amps in a speed equalised match? yara yara daze VsB. Saying you speedblitz someone, in a speed equalised match... that's so dumb. i'll entertain this anyway if it's legit:
Doing this requires time, thought, reactions, and then the action. all the while Fiamma has to do is either swing his arm and instantly hit her with a unavoidable attack which uses the appropriate force to defeat her, or the Holy Right will take action against the perceived threat against Fiamma on it's own.
In summation, I wish people would quote the relevent abilities a bit more, like scenes from the manga/novels. would make this alot smoother. Vsbattles profiling isn't the greatest way to get information. Obviously my vote here is for Fiamma.
Also I thought i'd see what Fiamma's response was to this thread, so I asked for his closing remarks to this thread.
“I really am delighted.” Holding his right hand out horizontally, Fiamma laughed, "Even though it is a complete victory on my part, your overwhelming stupidity has made this so enjoyable." - Fiamma of the Right
Looked at this girls profile, i can't see anything that stops her being oneshotted immediately by HR.
Also this Confluctor guy is wrong. Fiamma doesn't have a limited amount of uses per day, I vaguely remember this being a misinterpretation of the text again, where Fiamma arm would slowly disapparate over time and become unusable after it's gone, and he would need to pull it out again.
“That right arm has to have limits on its use,” said Vento interrupting his casual speech. “...” Fiamma stopped speaking, but Vento’s voice continued. “Because you played around with those small fries, it has already begun to disintegrate into the air. [...] Once your stock runs out, you are nothing more than a regular human.”
This does not mean it has a limited amount of uses per day. i'm nearly 100% certain that's where this misinformation came from
So basically Fiamma can use the Holy Right as much as he wants in a certain period of time... however we also find out that this is completely redundant as with the Index controller this time limit is removed.
“It seems I cannot avoid having it disintegrate into the air, but I have succeeded in fixing it in that state.” [...] That device allowed Fiamma to freely pull out any information he wanted from the knowledge of the 103,000 grimoires. “To put it bluntly, I no longer have any limits.” ~Fiamma
Out of courtesy i'll respond to the OP's post
>Now the reason of why to do a rematch is because I think the first thread was wrong, now I'm gonna say why:
First of all, Shia already have surpassed enemies who teleport, various actually and a lot of times, and it wasn't by strategy but pure battle sense because she is mostly a muscle head.
This is actually not important at all, Fiamma doesn't need to teleport as the HR will automatically lock on her and destroy her. Fiamma won't have to do anything. Also this is a incredibly vague summary and is not very useful.
Also, when you say dealing with teleporters, im curious has she dealt with teleporters who can teleport the entire distance of the planet at will and oneshot from 1000s of kilometres away?
>Second, the hammer have a anti-magic property that was enough to fight the desintegration of various of the most powerful apostles, so that should weaken the hand.
I highly doubt this hammer is anywhere near as potent as Imagine Breaker,which the HR has came into contact before and was just fine (and other spells that resisted IB aswell, ie: flame sword) but this also doesn't matter because Fiamma is going to just immediately oneshot her.
>Third, Shia can automatically see the future when in danger and can see 2 second in the future with little magic power, with more magic power she can see the future futher than that.
Ok she sees into the future when shes in danger, but She will already be defeated so.. it's kinda a mute point. The HR strikes with the exact amount of power required to defeat a opponent and it will always hit. Whether Fiamma actively does the handwave that oneshots her or the HR takes action on it's own, the result is the same.
to quote the novels here:
The Holy Right's strike is capable of ending everything it touches and reaching anything when swung
>Fourth, even though speed is equalized that's in base, with her amps she can reach MFTL, so Fiamma shouldn't be able to react to her, only the hand.
Eh, can you really allow speed amps in a speed equalised match? yara yara daze VsB. Saying you speedblitz someone, in a speed equalised match... that's so dumb. i'll entertain this anyway if it's legit:
Doing this requires time, thought, reactions, and then the action. all the while Fiamma has to do is either swing his arm and instantly hit her with a unavoidable attack which uses the appropriate force to defeat her, or the Holy Right will take action against the perceived threat against Fiamma on it's own.
In summation, I wish people would quote the relevent abilities a bit more, like scenes from the manga/novels. would make this alot smoother. Vsbattles profiling isn't the greatest way to get information. Obviously my vote here is for Fiamma.
Also I thought i'd see what Fiamma's response was to this thread, so I asked for his closing remarks to this thread.
“I really am delighted.” Holding his right hand out horizontally, Fiamma laughed, "Even though it is a complete victory on my part, your overwhelming stupidity has made this so enjoyable." - Fiamma of the Right
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Vote counted, but give me a few minutes to respond, now I'm doing something else and I would need to find the quotes.
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The profile say it's a weakness, so that's how it's gonna be treated until a CRT is made in which that is changed.
Fiamma don't need to teleport, the hand need to do it.
Yes, the teleportation are from persons who can teleport to any place in the word.
Here quotes:
The interesting thing of this is that the two teleporting are under a time manipulation magic which shorten the time of the things under the magic:
So she was overwhelming opponents who instantly teleport and on top of that had magic that shorten the time of everything they do, without using her amps, at lest not the high level because there didn't were any sign of she using it and just the Level VIII already make things like blowing the clouds just by do it. So unless the teleportation of the hand is above teleportations above teleportation, the she don't even need to see the future to fight against it.
The only time a teleportation attack was dangerous for her was from a potent BRF made from someone at thousands of kl of distance, at surprise, when she was weakened.
The person who do the BRF is the will of the planet which can reach every corner of the world, in this point she was in a far away island. In their fight Shia also faced various instantaneous attacks, but I honestly think that the part about the teleportation is already settled, so not gonna quote them.
I'm actually not argumenting that the hammer is better than IB, I'm saying that the anti-magic property of it should resist the hand and weakening the exact amount of power that is using.
If she can fight and overwhelm teleportation users with just instinct, then Future Sight would potent that. Let's say that indeed the hammer can't even resist the hand (thing that I obviously don't think it's the case), the Future Sight would automatically tell her that and thus she would dodge or defend with other thing. She can also create a strategy in which she defeat her seeing the future, like various simultaneous attacks at the same time which would need that the hand teleport to block all of them at the same time, or effect the surroundings with things like earthquakes that crack the land, frieze the envoirment, heat the envoirment, cease the supply of oxigen, etc, things that some she can do it by herself and some others that she can do with the embodiment of nature inside the hammer.
As far I now the amp are something aside, unless the person begin with the amps already applied then the speed equalized don't apply to them, that's how I have see it treated in all the other thread with amps. And in this match it doesn't really matter because the essential thing of all is the hand itself, not Fiamma.
Aside from this things the reactive evolution also let her develop new abilities to counter the things, in the fight against the planet of the will for example she developed a attack able to destroy space to counter a aoe that would kill the persons in the ground, this having in mind that the weak point of Shia was the lack of aoe:
In other situation when she was in a world that eroded the skin:
This is basically to say that with more time pass, more probably is that she develop a counter, like for example a ability that don't need to reach Fiamma, like for example the Divine Edict of Yue that affect directly the soul, or a space distortion attack which could prevent teleportation, something already done before by Hajime and a demon of class duke in Hell.
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Wow, this was really long, my longest message here by far.
Heavens_Feel
She/Her- 227
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No, it doesn't. The weakness on his profile has nothing to do with it, at all. He just can't use the full power of the Holy Right (,Basically become jesus, Create Miracles, Save the world, etc.) all the powers I've mentioned are in line with the key used here. Also if something can literally be refuted with the literal scans proving the profile to be wrong, why would we ignore it.
i'm confused. Fiamma can teleport of his own will using the HR.
Thank you for actually bothering to post quotes/references butthe text you sent me it has a range of 5-8 metres.
>It was Yue’s instantaneous space teleportation magic “Divine Existence”. Actually the skill was liberated after they got the better of Abyssgate. Although, because the skill was only liberated just now, it was affixed with use limitation and the distance it could possibly travel was around 5~7 meter.
Yeah, she overwhelmed a teleporter teleporting 5-7 metres around her, of course she can do that if shes a melee fighter like she seems to be, this is hard countered by the likes of Fiamma having incredible range of feats with his teleportation
Fiamma can teleport anywhere as long as there is an open horizontal path
Kamijou was one of the closest ones to the scene, but he did not know that a giant sword
30 or 40 kilometers long had been swung down. After all, the base of the sword, was so
far away it was almost disappearing off the horizon. A sizzling sound could be heard
coming from the sword. It wiggled back and forth and then slowly lifted up much like an
axe being pulled out of a large tree.
“With something this big, aiming can be a pain,” Fiamma said cheerfully.--
and immediately after being beyond the horizon
“Oh, and I thought you might have learned something during British Halloween,” said a
voice from very nearby.
It was Fiamma of the Right.
Kamijou immediately recognized the red figure that jumped in right in front of him.
There was a disconnect between the person who activated the magic and the place the
magic had been activated in.
i'm not sure that this is exactly teleportation, it looks like a surprise attack that can be used at a large range, as you say the will of the planet has a large range on it, but this does actually highlight the likelihood of her being defeated by attacks she didn't see coming and couldn't react to. granted she was weakened but all the same here.
The Thing is the Hammer is never going to touch the hand, either because Fiamma is out of range, and it's going to be immediately destroyed, as The holy right will automatically target and destroy threats to it and Fiamma. Though I don't think it's going to have any effect on the Holy Right at all even if he let her touch it, considering it can resist Imagine Breaker fine I think it's too big a reach to say it will do anything
I'll take your word for it, I still believe what I wrote initially for the speed amping holds, it takes time and time is something she doesn't have.
I mean, Fiamma and the arm are kind of one and the same. I also wouldn't disregard Fiamma powers without including the HR either, 103,000 Grimoires of knowledge is extremely powerful. It's just fairly redundant because his Holy Right is already so overpowered that why would he use a roundabout method like the Grimoires to defeat someone if he can do so much more easily with the Holy Right.
This reactive evolution thing seems like a NLF, how do you evolve to counter the Holy Right? It will immediately defeat her. If possible i'd like to see some other examples of this reactive evolution mid fight, and whether it actually is useful and/or comparable to any of the things Fiamma can do. From the quotes you have linked it seems to be copying and adjusting to some very basic physical magic attacks, nowhere near what Fiamma is capable of
There won't be much time passing though, because shes going to lose very, very quickly. like near immediately. Fiamma also has mind and soul hax resistance.
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I don't know if you choosed to ignore it or just didn't see it, but
I'm gonna give you the point of lack of context, so maybe it was because of that, but basically, in this time the both of them (Kaori and Yue) were in a world that restricted them, a world that was created to work like a video game because it was a training ground, so this work restricted the abilities they could use, and they could only regain them with leveling, in this point the teleportation and time magic was just regained, but although the were a limit of use and limit of range in the telepor because the world still considered it was a skill to powerful for their level, the point about be instantaneous still stand, that's why I used it. Also, Shia was freecuently Yue, and because Yue is physically "weak" she fight at distance, normally spamming danmaku wtih various teleport attacks. Also, if you wonder, Yue also have planet range, she can teleport to any place in the world, if you want I can bring the quote from a time in which she teleported from Japan to Great Britain or the Vatician, and a time in which she attacked in Japan fanaticts in the Vatician.
Yue because of fight frecuently against Shia know the fact that the teleport isn't effective against her, even when under a magic that shorten time (because Yue can also use that, just that in this instance after level up she regained the teleportation and Kaori the time magic).
It wasn't actually something able to kill her, it was a BFR to the interval of the worlds, the fact that the automatic future sight didn't actived and just her instincts reacted mean that is was something dangerous, but not something that could kill her. And yes, she was weakened.
The thing with IB wasn't something like that the speed at which is negate things can be overcome? Because the desintegration of the normal apostles was also like that, but in they case the desintegration was FTL+, the platinum one are MFTL and even so they couldn't harm the hammer with it even when various were attacking at the same time.
The most basic way I think that can counter the hand is like I said, attacks that block teleportation, like what Hajime already can do, and in this instance for example she replicated something Hajime can do in his own way. She already have the ability to manipulate time and information, but don't use it the same way the others girls, so if she already had made clear that she can obtain new powers in battle and could develop the abilities from her friends in her own way, then is plenty possible she develop what the other girls can do like the time manipulation of Kaori or the info or soul manipulation from Yue.
I think I already made clear why she isn't gonna lose, let alone lose quickly, but it she really end dying then she is gonna revive immediately, is gonna be pissed and thus is gonna be more probable that she develop a counter. Also to what level scale the soul and mind resistance of Fiamma?
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Fiamma swings.
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Any argument to bring to the table or not? Still gonna count the vote, but if there were arguments from your part would be better.
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All my arguments are things Heavens_Feel has already addressed, so I agree for their reasons.
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Sure, Fiamma fixed it... We've seen just how well it went.
Show me one time HR negated ressurection. Or overcame something messing up with data.
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This is pretty much going exactly as the last time, no matter what you say about Shia the other side will just say, Fiamma auto wins anyway. He just seems like a NLF to me.
That said i can tell you everything Expectro has said so far about Shia is indeed true.
That said i can tell you everything Expectro has said so far about Shia is indeed true.
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Thanks, now that the reability of my words have be proved now I want to prove the reability of the other side because until know there is at least two persons who know of the verse that are against that, Aminadab here and Confluctor in his wall.
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Blame the writer for literally making that his gimmick, don't hate the player hate the game.
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Blame the writer for literally make that Shia surpass just by sheer instinct teleportations and teleportations above normal teleportations, and that she literally develop a absurd counter to the things she face, don't hate the player hate the game.
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I ask for the input of a supporter to confirm the things about Fiamma and give her thoughts about why Shia can't counter Fiamma for the reasons I mentioned, which were confirmed be true by the main supporter of Arifureta.
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Let's not start that, thank you very much.
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If it was with me ok, I not gonna talk like that, just wanted to contest the same way he responded. But that aside, can a supporter of Index give his input here (and to change the profile of Fiamma)?
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I would really like to know why everyone think that Fiamma insta win when Shia already couter teleports, the hammer weakening the hand, the resurrection, the reactive evolution that have showed to develop abilities to counter the enemy, some of them abilities that others characters in Arifureta already do, and the fact that persons who know about index think that what he say is wrong.
Rez
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The hammer is not doing anything to the hand it's no where near ib's level
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Reactive evolution doesn't matter when The Strike That Ends Everything it Touches already negates durability, there's nothing to react too when the attack is delivered instantaneously by ignoring speed and distance. Weakening the hand doesn't matter because the attack is already delivered.
You're just appealing to authority by saying 'BUT THIS GUY SAID THIS SO THAT MEANS-'. Not a good place to argue buddy.
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Why is that any different than a normal teleport? She already have countered teleports attacks right next to her, many times, Yue and Lutria do that a lot when fighting against her. And as I said before, what prevent her for develop a ability to block teleportation? Hajime already can do that and it was already proved that she can develop things that Hajime do.
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It's different because it's not a teleport, Fiamma already has a teleport and the two are fundamentally different.
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The hand appear next to the target, the literal description of it call it a teleport.
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Anything appearing beside anything is a teleport now? We both know that's not how it works. Fiamma's teleportation only works horizontally, this is fundamentally different as it's an auto-lock that ignores all actions and distance, as well as speed. You could apply it to an attack that just ignores the concepts of them so even if she can block teleportation she can't avoid the inherent hax of it which is that 'It's delivered when swung and destroys anything it touches'.
You can liken it more to a Law than a teleport.
You can liken it more to a Law than a teleport.
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Excuse me, what? A attack that literally appear next to the target using literal teleportation isn't teleportation? The teleport from Arifureta don't even have the limitation of only work horizontally so that's wasn't ever a factor in the fights of Arifureta.
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Yes.
Moving by ignoring distance and speed doesn't mean you're teleporting. It can make you appear as such, but that's not how that works. They're two fundamentally different systems as even Teleportation can have time-lag and not instant. You're just imposing your own interpretation onto Fiamma with a lack of knowledge on how the mechanic works.
And if you argue on description, a description is written by...who again? Someone else who isn't the author? I have equally as much authority over the interpretation of the person on the wiki who writes the description as they did as we both consumed the same media.
The choice is only on you to believe it, but then you're arguing in bad faith.
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