Relocating Keys to Top of Profiles

[Deagonx]

I have a small & simple suggestion to make, but one that I think is important.

Many profiles have their tiers separated into keys, and as far as I can tell the keys are always listed at the bottom, which means that a characters tiers -- and the versions they refer to -- are on opposite sides of the page. You have to scroll all the way down to get context for what those tiers refer to, which seems counter-intuitive, as that information contextualizes everything in the profile. Often, every stat has a separate entry for each key, and it can be very challenging to read without having to scroll down to see which key is which. For example:

Darth Vader

His tier is listed as:

Tier: 8-A | 8-A | At least 5-B

However, this renders essentially no information, because keys can be based on a very wide variety of things. Was he 5-B because of a power-up he got? What's his "standard" version? You have to go to the opposite end of the page to determine this, which seems a counterintuitive choice.

Key: Disney Canon (Post Mustafar) | Disney Canon (Post Rebels) | Legends Continuity

So his 5-B is his legends version. Completely different key format than something like:

Galactus

Tier: 2-C | 2-C | 2-A | Low 1-A

Key: Starving | Moderately Fed | Well Fed | The Lifebringer

Now it's based on how fed he is, but again, you have to scroll to the opposite side of the page to contextualize this. This can get somewhat out of hand in the case of pretty complicated profiles with a lot of power-ups.

Son Goku (Dragon Ball)

Tier: At least 9-A, High 8-C as an Oozaru | At least 9-A possibly higher, High 8-C as an Oozaru | High 8-C | At least High 8-C | At least High 8-C, possibly 5-C | 5-C | 5-C

Key: Pilaf Saga | 21st Budokai | General Blue Saga | Commander Red Saga | 22nd Budokai | King Piccolo Saga | 23rd Budokai

Seven different keys for the story arcs in Dragon Ball, but you don't know which is which unless you scroll to the bottom of the page.

TL;DR: I think it would be better to relocate the "Keys" information to the top of profiles so that their correlation with specific tiers can be easily viewed and understood without putting the tiers and their context on opposite sides of profiles. Alternatively, they could be placed twice both at the top and bottom, since stats are also keyed and span the entire length of the page.

 

[Antvasima]

I don't particularly mind such a change in itself, but it would take an enormous amount of work to apply such a revision at this pointå, and for very limited practical gain.

 

[Deagonx]

I don't particularly mind such a change in itself, but it would take an enormous amount of work to apply such a revision at this point

I think it's something that could be approached over time, rather than trying to accomplish it in a single enormous undertaking. Similar to the new references rule.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that placing the key section immediately underneath the tier section might make our information a bit easier to overview, but it would take a long time to catch on automatically, and as such require enormous amount of cleanup work, and given that I handle most of our daily edit-patrolling on my own, I would likely have to add several hundred hours to my longterm workload, with nowhere near the massive benefits from our references revision, so I would rather avoid all of the extra trouble in this particular case. My apologies.

 

[Deagonx]

Okay, well I think it is worth considering as a progressive change. However if it's generally agreed that the juice isn't worth the squeeze, so to speak, then that's fine.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, it is a sensible suggestion in itself, but I am so overworked already that I am very reluctant to add even more work to my ongoing duties.

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

we could say to start doing this with new profiles and just change existing profiles whenever theyre already being changed, that would **** with profile format consistency though

 

[KLOL506]

I... am not technically opposed to this. It would make understanding the keys a lot easier in the long run for sure, plus it's literally just moving up the "Keys" section to the top of the page below the Tier section. It's not like a grand scheme of tier naming things, it's even more similar in nature to the category addition section TBF.

That being said, I also have no problems with it remaining where it is (Though I do have to admit, scrolling down to find the keys while editing profiles in general can become a slog).

 

[Propellus]

While I do like this new suggestion for easier view in the regards to formatting, it shouldn't be mandatory

 

[KLOL506]

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What do you think about this change?

 

[LordTracer]

I suppose I don’t mind this change? I agree with Propellus in that it should be an optional choice though.

 

[DontTalkDT]

If not consistently applied, having the section at different parts of the page makes working with it actually harder IMO, since you won't know where to look anymore.
I know I will always scroll past it when looking for the key, as I expect it at the bottom of the page. And if this isn't applied to most profiles, I expect I will continue to scroll past it to the place most profiles have the key.

(and as we all know I don't like everything have multiple options in a standard format anyway. Undermines the idea of standards)

 

[KLOL506]

If not consistently applied, having the section at different parts of the page makes working with it actually harder IMO, since you won't know where to look anymore.
I know I will always scroll past it when looking for the key, as I expect it at the bottom of the page. And if this isn't applied to most profiles, I expect I will continue to scroll past it to the place most profiles have the key.

(and as we all know I don't like everything have multiple options in a standard format anyway. Undermines the idea of standards)

In that case I can agree to this being a mandatory-but-overtime choice. Like with the Categories.

While this would affect a shit-ton of profiles, it is literally one of the easiest edits one could make. No explicit changes to profile info or anything.

 

[Propellus]

But then again, wouldn't this take all day for this to apply this to literally every profile onto this wiki? Like I mean, if this is going to be mandatory, then I would suggest this only for newer uploaded profiles like we have with references/citations. But I think my point still stands

 

[KLOL506]

But then again, wouldn't this take all day for this to apply this to literally every profile onto this wiki?

Didn't stop us from carrying out the Categories CRT for all existing profiles here, which was a tiny bit more complicated than what we have here now.

Like I mean, if this is going to be mandatory, then I would suggest this only for newer uploaded profiles like we have with references/citations. But I think my point still stands

References are mandatory for all profiles now, new or old.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Didn't stop us from carrying out the Categories CRT for all existing profiles here, which was a tiny bit more complicated than what we have here now.

Wasn't that done via bots or do I think of a different CRT?

In that case I can agree to this being a mandatory-but-overtime choice. Like with the Categories.

While this would affect a shit-ton of profiles, it is literally one of the easiest edits one could make. No explicit changes to profile info or anything.

Wouldn't it still take ages until that is consistent for 30k pages?

 

[Deagonx]

Wouldn't it still take ages until that is consistent for 30k pages?

We could have it listed twice so that way it's still consistently at the bottom

 

[DontTalkDT]

I would rather take the long gradual edit than that redundancy

 

[ImmortalDread]

But then again, wouldn't this take all day for this to apply this to literally every profile onto this wiki? Like I mean, if this is going to be mandatory, then I would suggest this only for newer uploaded profiles like we have with references/citations. But I think my point still stands

All day? Brother in Christ, it will take months, we have over 30k profiles.

 

[Propellus]

References are mandatory for all profiles now, new or old.

Really? I could've sworn this was only for newer pages that were just made.

All day? Brother in Christ, it will take months, we have over 30k profiles.

That's literally exactly what I mean

 

[KLOL506]

Really? I could've sworn this was only for newer pages that were just made.

Not anymore. It just changed to "All pages" now. Of course, we're not going to axe pages on that basis alone, that'd be stupid.

All day? Brother in Christ, it will take months, we have over 30k profiles.

We applied categories to 30K profiles in less than a month using bots and other people, did we not?

Now if only there were a bot that could just as easily shift lines up like that right below the Tier section

 

[Damage3245]

It's a great idea. The only issue being the amount of time / effort, but not every single profile has Keys.

 

[KLOL506]

Wasn't that done via bots or do I think of a different CRT?

Took a mixture of both because at the time Ant was still a bit wary of using a bot with so much power.

Wouldn't it still take ages until that is consistent for 30k pages?

If there is a collective effort to make the edits, anyone could do this in their free time, very quickly. A month or two, perhaps.

 

[KLOL506]

All day? Brother in Christ, it will take months, we have over 30k profiles.

Brother it's literally moving the "Keys" section right below the Tier section, how hard could that be?

 

[ImmortalDread]

Brother it's literally moving the "Keys" section right below the Tier section, how hard could that be?

You are talking about 30,000 profiles. Ya have fun with this, I mean I would not do it for free

 

[ImmortalDread]

We applied categories to 30K profiles in less than a month using bots and other people, did we not?

Now if only there were a bot that could just as easily shift lines up like that right below the Tier section

I mean, if you can script it, I guess it works.

 

[KLOL506]

You are talking about 30,000 profiles. Ya have fun with this, I mean I would not do it for free

I mean, you don't have to tackle all 30K profiles? The load can be shared amongst other users and staff members.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I mean, you don't have to tackle all 30K profiles? The load can be shared amongst other users and staff members.

Damn bro, you got me this time . Since you are calculation member, can u do quick math, how many profiles should each of us get?

 

[KLOL506]

Damn bro, you got me this time . Since you are calculation member, can u do quick math, how many profiles should each of us get?

If someone can tell me first how many profiles with "Keys" of coke are there, maybe we could divide the load based on alphabetical order.

 

[Damage3245]

This isn't the kind of editing project you could handle with bots.

 

[KLOL506]

This isn't the kind of editing project you could handle with bots.

Then I suppose we could choose the "alphabetical order" route.

 

[ImmortalDread]

If someone can tell me first how many profiles with "Keys" of coke are there, maybe we could divide the load based on alphabetical order.

U can't guess it ig, since they are not categorized in “categories”. Not sure tho

 

[Damage3245]

Then I suppose we could choose the "alphabetical order" route.

You could divide it by looking at blocks of 200 profiles which are visible in the Characters category.

Someone handles the first page, then the next person clicks 'Show 200 more' and handles that, and so on.

 

[KLOL506]

U can't guess it ig, since they are not categorized in “categories”. Not sure tho

There is a special black magic tool on the wiki special pages that allows you to sort out certain words to pin down your search results. It's how we figure out how many pages are in for a mass edit before we jump to editing them.

 

[ImmortalDread]

There is a special black magic tool on the wiki special pages that allows you to sort out certain words to pin down your search results. It's how we figure out how many pages are in for a mass edit before we jump to editing them.

Since you know, how many?

 

[KLOL506]

Since you know, how many?

I can't use the tools because I don't know how to use them, nor do I know where it is anymore

 

[ImmortalDread]

I can't use the tools because I don't know how to use them, nor do I know where it is anymore

 

[Deagonx]

All day? Brother in Christ, it will take months, we have over 30k profiles.

Not every profile has keys

 

[ImmortalDread]

Not every profile has keys

But I can safely assume, it is at least over 25k profiles, but whatever if it can be done via bot, does not sound bad.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

I'm not against it but like everyone else said, the main problem would be the work load so this would really either have to be an optional thing which would lead to inconsistencies in profile structures or we need a ton of people who are willing to go in alphabetical order and sort this out manually which depends on how many people are actually willing to help out.