Reid Astrea vs Juuzou Shishimi

[Robo432343]

SBA
Speed Equal

 

[Zabazab]

Huh, ability-wise these are just the exact same character. Like they're just the exact same powerset. Wow.

 

[Robo432343]

yeah its crazy

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Wtf some of the wording is almost exactly the same as Reid's

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

To be fair the Bullshit anime swordsman that can cut through anything isn't too rare of a trope in the medium.

Anyways what's Reid's starting move/how's he going to respond to meeting someone at his level

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Interesting match.

Reid starts with concept cutting. He definitely wouldn't be playing around here, his intuition would tell him Juuzou is a threat.

I see this match devolving into another skillslop, inevitable when dealing with the pinnacle of skill in Re Zero, who is infinitely above other skilled people...

 

[Zabazab]

Something something took 800 years to learn to cut concepts vs took 3 months to learn to cut concepts idfk

"Ya're ******* pathetic, ya prick. How long have ya held a sword, ya prick? Only been three months since I first picked up a sword, ya prick. I've cut down light, the ****'ve ya cut down?" –Re:Zero Volume 22, Chapter 5, "Julius Juukulius"

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Looking at the profiles again, it's insane how they much they counter other, like if we just look at the powers, can't see how it would be anything other than an incon, they both will just keep pulling off new stuff, and countering each other.

Juuzoou has the higher ap, which is an advantage, but doesn't really matter when these guys can just 1 shot each other. Reid has higher lifting strength, but won't really matter unless Reid goes to grapple him or something.

This is where I think we would have to go into skillslop, who exactly is better at doing what they do.

I think the infamous Re Zero rain dodging feats come in.... Juuzou is good but has he ever dealt with an an opponent who can dodge literally rain? Does his RE show anything comparable to that?

Ignoring that infamous feat, something that really sticks out for Reid is his bs intuition. It's so good he can find someone who he has never even meet before, dodge invisible sniper fire coming from all directions, figured out the ability of someone who was time looping, know that someone is the same as someone else he saw before despite their appearance and soul changing etc.

I guess being able to intuitively grasp his opponents weak points, seeing the optimal path to victory etc, could be useful too. We could also go into the whole Reid being able to simulate like a 100 million different ways to beat Juuzou.

Side note, for a guy as skilled as Juuzou, how does he not have info analysis or analytical prediction? I am sure it exists in verse, so he probably could adapt to that sort of stuff, still looks odd to me.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

are there any supporters for their verse we can call?

 

[Robo432343]

are there any supporters for their verse we can call?

@Sonoftanavast9

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

In fairness, Juuzou's reactive evolution already has feats of countering stuff like Precog that allowed another being to easily dodge all his strikes which is why he already has resistance to Analytical prediction on his profile

For Context, Ikku who had uploaded himself to the Internet & gained full control of all it's infrastructure, allowing him to basically use 58% of all of humanities computing resources (which for added context is future tech since UQ Holder takes place in the future and further he had advanced it in the 4 decades he had with it) to easily predict exactly what an opponent would do but Juuzou pretty much instantly adapted to that

Juuzou's reactive evolution just has feats like that where he's encountered something for the first time and instantly bypasses (See Baa'l, Karin and Gengoro's invulnerabilities)

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

In fairness, Juuzou's reactive evolution already has feats of countering stuff like Precog that allowed another being to easily dodge all his strikes which is why he already has resistance to Analytical prediction on his profile

For Context, Ikku who had uploaded himself to the Internet & gained full control of all it's infrastructure, allowing him to basically use 58% of all of humanities computing resources (which for added context is future tech since UQ Holder takes place in the future and further he had advanced it in the 4 decades he had with it) to easily predict exactly what an opponent would do but Juuzou pretty much instantly adapted to that

Juuzou's reactive evolution just has feats like that where he's encountered something for the first time and instantly bypasses (See Baa'l, Karin and Gengoro's invulnerabilities)

yeah Reid also has reactive evolution but he would have the initial advantage due to his precog and Godly intuition

• Analytical Prediction (As the Sword Saint, like Theresia, he can predict his opponent's future attacks[32] from the stance they take, from where their eyes are trained, and from the very air that hangs above them, and can see, read, and feel paths of hostility[32] raining down upon him. Sword Saints see a floating white ray of battle that they need only trace with their blade to unquestionably kill their opponent.[32] He is unfathomably superior to Emilia who dodged a rain of arrows faster than her eyes could track by reading the shooters' intent.[33] Far superior to Old Wilhelm who, invisible or not, can anticipate his opponents attacks[8] by watching the movement of their eyes, feeling their hostility, reading how they breathe as they aim. He is superior to Cecilus, who is constantly aware of everything in his surroundings, analyzing other's physical abilities, conduct, and sounds,[26] to always have a grasp the positions of everyone and everything nearby. Unfathomably superior to Roswaal, who when faced with an invisible attack, cast out of sync with the caster's gaze and breathing, all with a feint attack added for good measure,[34] easily pinpointed and neutralized it)
• Information Analysis (Far superior to Grimm Fauzen, who could perfectly judge the speed and trajectory of Carol's attack,[3] and Kurgan, who can judge a person’s abilities at a glance.[35] As the Sword Saint, like Theresia, he can tell at a glance the strength of a person's muscles and bones,[35] as well as see white rays which show the optimal path to victory,[32] as they can intuitively grasps their opponents most vulnerable points.[35] The Sword Saint can see flaws in even the most polished of fighting styles[32])
• Instinctive Action (Far above Garfiel Tinsel's level, where fights are immediate, with no delay between decision making and action,[36] as even the slightest delay is exploited by their opponent.[36] Superior to Old Wilhelm, who has superhuman, god-like combat capabilities[8] that make it possible to dodge 30+ invisible arms– which even Julius, who can dodge invisible attacks on instinct, was unable to detect– just by reacting to the effect the arms had on the dirt in the air)

which i think would tip the scale to his favour since this match would probably end in a few moves (if it doesnt then it literally goes on for a while till one of them drops)
if Reid starts to lose in anyway he would also gain a blitzing amp so that would probably also cause him to win

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Reid also has reactive evolution but he would have the initial advantage due to his precog and Godly intuition

The relevance of Reid's reactive evolution to this fight depends on what his actual feats with it are and whether they in comparable to what Juuzou has shown with his Reactive Evolution.

I'm the guy working on UQ Holder profiles but haven't reached Gengoro's yet (he's next) so to give you an idea of how his Clairvoyance & info analysis works & Hoe Juuzou ignored it

• Information Analysis (Data Manipulation - Due to one of his unique skills Gengoro perceives the world as a video game[6] such that he can directly see "data" on everything, providing him with a complete breakdown of a persons statistics, abilities[3] in great detail[2], hidden transformations[2], and experience level[2] as well as a "log" containing a perfect record of everything that occurs around himself such as every attack used by an opponent including how it was executed, how it works, the theory behind it and the steps to accomplishing it[6])
• Clairvoyance (Gengoro's unique skills grants him access to a mini-map heads-up display which he can use map out a location while also tracking specific targets within it using a radar like search option[11]) - A sneak peak at what's gonna be on his profile soon

Despite these Gengoro couldn't sense Juuzou nor even realize that Juuzou would bypassed his invulnerability simply by reading his abilities

Though that's besides the point, the main thing here is that Juuzou can evolve in response to analytical skills & prediction in a short order of time.

which i think would tip the scale to his favour since this match would probably end in a few moves (if it doesnt then it literally goes on for a while till one of them drops)
if Reid starts to lose in anyway he would also gain a blitzing amp so that would probably also cause him to win

I think a quicker match would be in Reid's best interest while a longer more drawn out stamina intensive one would more benefit Juuzou. Juuzou has the direct feats showing he can adapt to analytical prediction in short order and has a resistance to it already + Juuzou's reactive Evolution also provides him with speed amps such as when Ikku essentially brought in a new faster body to fight Juuzou so Juuzou became fast enough that his swordsmanship started to blitzed Nikitis' Perception

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

The relevance of Reid's reactive evolution to this fight depends on what his actual feats with it are and whether they in comparable to what Juuzou has shown with his Reactive Evolution.

All of his skills have been developed and perfected in just 3 months of training.
Even if you give Theresia, who is a skill god herself, an eternity she wouldn't be able to reach his level
IF you give Ram, also a skill god, an eternity she would never be able to reach Theresia's level
Just him doing anything will automatically make it the most optimal way of doing that thing

• Accelerated Development (Battle & Training; Cecilus, upon wielding a sword for the very first time, spent an extensive period training with the sword day-in and day-out within his mind, swinging it hundreds of millions of times– all within an instant in reality,[4] and was able to put the fruits of his labour into action immediately)
  
  
• Reactive Evolution (By merely stepping forth with the thought of performing an action, he can readily invent and realize a new style of doing so,[5] such as inventing an optimal gait for a situation. The same technique never works twice[22] on the likes of Elsa and Ley, who are unfathomably inferior to Reid)
  

I'm the guy working on UQ Holder profiles but haven't reached Gengoro's yet (he's next) so to give you an idea of how his Clairvoyance & info analysis works & Hoe Juuzou ignored it

Despite these Gengoro couldn't sense Juuzou

Reid only needs to look to get all of that + the exact spot he needs to strike to one shot and even how to swing his sword

Also, quoting zab:
Reid himself deduced via intuition that an imperceptable soul-connection that was consigning Ram's physical burden to Subaru must exist, and that he should cut it. Even more insane is that Cecilus, whom is vastly below Reid, identified the nature of Al's Authority by sheer guesswork.

he can just use his intuition and win since jozo doesnt have a counter

nor even realize that Juuzou would bypassed his invulnerability simply by reading his abilities

Though that's besides the point, the main thing here is that Juuzou can evolve in response to analytical skills & prediction in a short order of time.

perhaps, but i dont think he could adapt to godly intuition

I think a quicker match would be in Reid's best interest while a longer more drawn out stamina intensive one would more benefit Juuzou. Juuzou has the direct feats showing he can adapt to analytical prediction in short order and has a resistance to it already + Juuzou's reactive Evolution also provides him with speed amps such as when Ikku essentially brought in a new faster body to fight Juuzou so Juuzou became fast enough that his swordsmanship started to blitzed Nikitis' Perception

Eugard got blitzed and was getting stomped by halibel but grew and got to his level mid combat
Reid, if pushed to his limits similar to how Eugard was, would also gain on the same level as, if not better AD than Eugard
there is also Theresia who surpassed her peak when faced against Reinhard Van Astrea when she was pushed to her limits
Wilhelm (her husband) also blitzed someone comparable to him when he was pushed to his limits
So if anything, Reid will be able to keep up with no difficulty since he upscales to them

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

All of his skills have been developed and perfected in just 3 months of training.
Even if you give Theresia, who is a skill god herself, an eternity she wouldn't be able to reach his level
IF you give Ram, also a skill god, an eternity she would never be able to reach Theresia's level
Just him doing anything will automatically make it the most optimal way of doing that thing

Non of these are reactive evolution feats... Yes if Theresia and Ram trained for an eternity they will never be able to cut concepts, that's not particularly shocking or strange news - Points for Juuzou though, seeing as how unlike anyone here he was completely untalented from the start but still brute forced his way to that level

Back to the point at hand, I don't see how any of this is relevant to my question - the first 3 point are completely irrelevant to reactive evolution and the last is just marginally breaching into adaptation & Accelerated Development rather than reactive evolution.

• Reactive Evolution (By merely stepping forth with the thought of performing an action, he can readily invent and realize a new style of doing so,[5] such as inventing an optimal gait for a situation. The same technique never works twice[22] on the likes of Elsa and Ley, who are unfathomably inferior to Reid)

Also the reasoning for him having Reactive Evolution provided seems extraordinarily lackluster - Inventing a new style of doing something that's more optimal & efficient is more like adaptation than reactive evolution seeing as how this is on the Reactive Evolution page

This ability is also similar to Adaptation, but with the powers & resistances gained being more varied and extreme, rather than simply adapting to better utilize one's resources to survive environments or having only occasionally grown new abilities or resistances

Reid is not gaining a new ability or resistance, he simply better performing what he could already do before - Inventing a new way of taking long strides that's more efficiently & better isn't the same as getting a new power that counter something that affected him or becoming resistant to what affected him prior

The second part of the explanation revolving around scaling to Elsa & Ley tbh isn't reactive evolution in their case seeing as non of them have that on their profiles & the feat's listed for both wouldn't even qualify for Reactive Evolution either way...

Though even if we were to ignore everything I've said here, I'm still not seeing any feats of Reactive Evolution that Reid or anyone he's skill scaling to have that's comparable to Juuzou

Reid only needs to look to get all of that + the exact spot he needs to strike to one shot and even how to swing his sword
he can just use his intuition and win since jozo doesnt have a counter

Gengoro also just needs to look to read out a literal word for word list of Juuzou's abilities based on the words data (the true source of Gengoro's powers is actually rewriting the world as an inferior fiction from a world he designates as a superior reality) yet still couldn't and again Juuzou has reactive evolution feats of countering Analytical Prediction + an already stated resistance to it

perhaps, but i dont think he could adapt to godly intuition

I'm fairly certain he can, He's adapted to hax that's more esoteric like Karin's invulnerability and again even calculation based analytical prediction backed by 58% of a futuristic humanities computing resources in a matter of moments

Eugard got blitzed and was getting stomped by halibel but grew and got to his level mid combat
Reid, if pushed to his limits similar to how Eugard was, would also gain on the same level as, if not better AD than Eugard
there is also Theresia who surpassed her peak when faced against Reinhard Van Astrea when she was pushed to her limits
Wilhelm (her husband) also blitzed someone comparable to him when he was pushed to his limits
So if anything, Reid will be able to keep up with no difficulty since he upscales to them

That's fair, I don't really expect him not to be able to keep up at some point in the fight or anything like that, I just think they will remain comparable in speed even as the fight progresses

 

[Robo432343]

damn i forgor abt this thread
lets continue
from what i see it looks like this fight is most likely going to be incon