Regarding TOAA's Tier

[Ryukama]

Hello. Now I am aware of the constant issue of TOAA's tier. The fact that it's based upon a very nonsensical statement that firmly goes against much of the valued ideas of the Tiering System. And that a huge reason why TOAA is the tier he is being due to fear of backlash. This mess being the treatment of the whole "omniverse" stuff.

However it appears that the omniverse statement is no longer even needed to justify his tier.

The page seems to be indicating that TOAA is the supreme being of the series and fully transcendent of everyone else in Marvel. This including 1-A characters such as Oblivion. So would this alone not be a justification for Tier 0?

If the thing against this is "transcending 1-As doesn't immediately equal Tier 0" and such then why is Kami Tenchi rated as such for the exact same thing? He's a Tier 0 due to being the supreme being completely transcendent of 1-A people, which is the precise thing TOAA's profile describes him as.

Kami's profile even says "It is also harder to argue that the entity should be High 1-A, rather than tier 0, as he does not have any known relevant minor limitation, nor does he have any being above or equal to himself." Is that not the same thing with TOAA? He has no established limitations or equal/superior beings.

Unless I am mistaken, it seems that whatever the hell Marvel wants to call an "omniverse" has no bearing on TOAA's tier, as long as he is still treated as the supreme being fully transcendent of the rest of Marvel Comics.

I am posting this to the Questions and Answers Board as I am only asking as of right now. And I am prefectly free to being corrected if I am mistaken. Input would be appreciated and thank you for reading.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I am in complete agreement with this. If Marvel has 1-A characters like Oblivion and 1-A locations like TOAA's Heaven, then there is no reason for TOAA to be anything other than Tier 0. He fits all the requirements for such.

His nature is more consistently defined as superior / trancendent over everything than Kami Tenchi, to boot, as Tenchi has barely any appearance nor information, and as such is largely interpretative. TOAA meanwhile leaves little room for interpretation. If one qualifies for Tier 0, so does the other.

 

[RadicalMrR]

I agree with Matt and Ryu. I myself dont understand how someone can be completely transcendent of a 1-A and still be 1-A, especially when other characters are 0 for the exact same reasons.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

i agree

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

I agree with this.

 

[Cropfist]

I agree.

 

[Dragontime]

Seems reasonable.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we simply copied the ACF wiki's rationale for KT, i.e. that he is explicitly as incomprehensible to 1-A beings as they are to mortals.

As for the OAA, I am uncertain. If Oblivion is just as fiction to the entity, that might be enough for it to qualify, but then again, franchises such as Umineko have an infinite ladder of fiction-reality differences, including for 1-A beings, so it is probably not necessary.

Mind you, I agree that it would solve a lot of our backlash problems if we simply rated it as tier 0, but that is not a good reason in itself, and I would prefer input from DarkLK regarding the issue.

 

[Antvasima]

It seems like DarkLK is okay with it:

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/656018

 

[Ryukama]

I meant how I once recalled it being said we never thought the omniverse statement was all that good for Tier 0, but we didn't want backlash for downgrading TOAA entirely. However I agree fear backlash isn't a good reason

Regardless it appears a good amount of staff members including the consultant we use to determine these things is fine with TOAA being rated as Tier 0. So I'll apply the changes. If staff have issues they can reopen this thread.

 

[Antvasima]

It is probably best if Matthew handles rewriting the profile with proper motivations.

 

[Ryukama]

I showed Matthew the profile and he seems fine with it.

I don't think that it needs heavy rewriting. We already agreed that the motivations it had were good enough for Tier 0. So I simply removed the retcon key and note since the omniverse retcon doesn't have impact on the rating anymore.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I would still prefer as good motivations as possible however.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I think that it is solid.

 

[Ryukama]

If Matthew has issues with TOAA's profile he can obviously change it if he wants. But he doesn't seem to. But I think the profile is fine as of now.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay then.

 

[The_Omnipotente]

I was thinking the same thing, and talking to friends they said that Toaa is above the cosmic order from outside, so I agree

 

[Ryukama]

This is concluded. TOAA's profile was adjusted and Matt is fine with the writing.

I'm going to close the thread now. Thank you very much to everyone for the input on this topic.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, after checking over the current definition, it mentions that the OAA created the omniverse, which supposedly includes the real world and all of fiction outside of Marvel itself.

This is a staggeringly ridiculous claim, that directly contradicts our practices, so I would much prefer if the motivation for his tier is changed.

 

[Ryukama]

I think Matt would be able to reword it in some way.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. I hope so.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Well, I guess we can remove the two definitions of the Omniverse that call it all of fiction and real life, and keep only the ones sayin that it is "everything" generically.

 

[Antvasima]

That would probably be fine, but we should preferably use the term "everything" instead of "omniverse".

 

[A_fan_of_a_fan]

so does that mean that heart of the universe will also get an upgrade since it was stated to be equal to TOAA ?

im sorry for reopening this i just wondering