Regarding the format of the Monster Trio's pages

[SuperKamiNappa]

So recently Antvasima removed the Fishman Island/Punk Hazard section because "Luffy did not seem to grow stronger. He simply displayed more of his true power." But the exact same thing can be said of all the other Pre-timeskip arcs that are used as a divider, and tbh it has been bothering me for a while. At no point Pre-TS did Luffy's base form actually grow stronger we just saw more of what he could do. Ichigo and Naruto both have dividers based on there forms and I think the same thing should be done for Luffy.

Basically the way I think his page should be something like this.

Tier: At least 8-A, higher with combination attacks | At least 8-A, likely Low 7-C | At least 7-C, likely higher | 7-B | Likely High 7-A

Key: Pre-Timeskip Base | Pre-Timeskip Gear 2nd and 3rd | Post-Timeskip Base | Post-Timeskip Gear 2nd and 3rd | Gear 4th

'Attack Potency: At least Multi-City Block level' (Overpowered Crocodile's Desert Spada with a punch, also knocked over a huge gold bell with his Golden Rifle) higher via combination attacks | At least Multi-City Block level, likely Small Town level (consistently damaged Rob Lucci who's durability is listed as this) | At least Town level, likely higher (demolished a large structure when he sent Hody flying into it) | City Level via powerscaling (should be at least as strong as Zoro) | Likely Small Island level (Stronger than Doflamingo)

Speed: High Hypersonic w/ Massively Hypersonic reactions (At least as fast as Zoro and Trafalgar Law and is a superior combatant compared to Kalifa who can react to lightning, deflected cannonballs thrown by Garp) | Massively Hypersonic with Gear 2nd (faster than lightning, can tag characters like Crocodile and dodge slashes from Mihawk, though he was only testing him) | Massively Hypersonic (Faster than before) | Massively Hypersonic (Cleanly dodged a liquid explosio at point-blank range) | At least Massively Hypersonic (Swift enough to disappear from Doflamingo's sight)

Durability: Multi-Cty Block level normally (Tanked a Sables from Crocodile and a Burn Bazooka from Wiper), higher when dealing with blunt force, at least City level when dealing with lightning (tanked Enel's Raigo) | Multi-City Block level. Likely Small Town level (Withstood several Rankyakuand other attacks from Lucci), at least Town level when dealing with blunt force (was completely unaffected by repeated attacks from Asgard Moriah), at least City level against lightning | Town level, likely Small Island level against blunt force and lightning (Withstood this level of attack from Fujitora without noticeable damage). | City Level, Small Island level against blunt force and lightning | Likely Small Island level, likely higher against blunt force and lightning

Zoro and Sanji should along the same lines excpt there durability section wouldn't be nearly as complicated, Zoro wouldn't need a section for Post-Timeskip Base, Sanji wouldn't get a durability upgrade for Diable Jambe, and they as of yet don't have any form to put them on the same level as Gear 4th. So Bascally

8-A in base | 8-A, likely Low 7-C with Kyutoryu: Asura | 7-C for Zoro

8-A in base | 8-A, likely Low 7-C with Diable Jambe | 7-B in base | 7-C with Diable Jambe for Sanji

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

The long Pre-Timeskip arc did explicitly have Zoro constantly train to grow stronger, and Luffy keeping up with him. Luffy consistently had a very hard time with the increasingly more powerful enemies, so it would be sbsurd to scale Don Krieg from Crocodile or Enel, because he had serious trouble with all of them.

Post-Timeskip, he had trained for two entire years, and had no problems whatsoever with the enemies during the Fishman Island arc as far as I remember. It was a running theme that he had not displayed the full extent of what he could do until the fight against Doflamingo.

Hence, I consider the two situations to be quite different, and the question is not whether or not we should scale all Pre-Timeskip feats from the Whitebeard War, but whether we should reinsert the Fishman Island statistics key?

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

The long Pre-Timeskip arc did explicitly have Zoro constantly train to grow stronger, and Luffy keeping up with him. Luffy consistently had a very hard time with the increasingly more powerful enemies, so it would be sbsurd to scale Don Krieg from Crocodile or Enel, because he had serious trouble with all of them.
Post-Timeskip, he had trained for two entire years, and had no problems whatsoever with the enemies during the Fishman Island arc as far as I remember. It was a running theme that he had not displayed the full extent of what he could do until the fight against Doflamingo.

Hence, I consider the two situations to be quite different, and the question is not whether or not we should scale all Pre-Timeskip feats from the Whitebeard War, but whether we should reinsert the Fishman Island statistics key?

The only time we ever really saw Zoro training was to try and cut steal (which ended up happening because of a deus ex machina rather than training) and never once have Luffy or Sanji ever been shown training. Crocodile and Enel are wierd cases already, the only reason he beat either of them was because of PIS for Crocodile and the fact that Enel couldn't use his lightning. Never once was it made explicitly clear that any of them got stronger except when they pulled out there upgrades (aka gears, asura, DJ) in Ennies Lobby.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, pre-timeskip, Luffy consistently strained himself against gradually more impressive enemies, as is common for shonen tropes. Post-timeskip, I did not have that impression until his fight with Doflamingo.

However, it might be best to reinsert the Fishman Island statistics anyway, if this is going to become an issue.

 

[CinCameron20]

Fishman Island should be removed from all characters

East Blue should be discussed for an upgrade to 8-B or even removed due to Luffy's fights against early opponents being brief or a troll (Morgan was being stomped, Buggy was a joke fight, Kuro lasted as long as he did due to Luffy's lack of experience, and Krieg had an environmental advantage over Luffy)

Luffy also outmatched Arlong's physical strength when he became bloodlusted after learning about how Nami was being treated by Arlong: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/92/19 , http://www.***********.net/one-piece/93/17

In the end, I find Alabasta/Skypeia, War/CP9, and Dressrosa all being important keys. I couldn't care any less about East Blue and Fishman Island due to them being unreliable for finding how strong/fast each character is.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, my impression was that Luffys had a serious fight with Arlong, so I think that it should stay, even though Luffy was not very strong at this point.

 

[CinCameron20]

... i just tried to make a post with a ton of links, but due to it taking so much time for me to make such a post, it failed to go... ugh...

To sum it up: The fight with Arlong was not serious until Luffy became furious after learning about how Nami was treated by Arlong (Luffy only struck Arlong once after that).

Luffy defeated him with 5 direct blows (4 if you exclude the one intent on knocking Arlong's teeth out). Here is the fight from the first punch from Luffy if you want to read it: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/90/2 Only his 2 final strikes were intent on wounding Arlong. The rest of the fight was him making jokes and running from Arlong.

Also, it should help to point out two more things from earlier on in the arc:

Luffy was blind-sided by Jango, who could slice several trees down by throwing his disks (http://www.***********.net/one-piece/36/7), and he was hardly damaged by it: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/34/4

Zoro easily defeated Buchi, who could do this much while hypnotized to be stronger, with one blow: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/35/11 , http://www.***********.net/one-piece/35/12, http://www.***********.net/one-piece/36/11, http://www.***********.net/one-piece/36/16.

Captain Kuro should also be upgraded since he powerscales above Buchi and Sham, being their superior: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/33/8

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I have no opinion about possible upgrades, but I reinserted the Fishman Island statistics for Luffy, as regardless whether or not he turned more powerful during the post-timeskip era, it is standard praxis for this site to gradually upgrade shonen characters by storyarc, as they climb in displayed power levels.

 

[Antvasima]

Basically, if we start to mess with this principle for One Piece, we will get lots of demands to do the same for virtually every shonen series, which is far too much unnecessary work.

 

[CinCameron20]

Alright, I have no arguments if that is the case.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for being reasonable.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Well, I have no opinion about possible upgrades, but I reinserted the Fishman Island statistics for Luffy, as regardless whether or not he turned more powerful during the post-timeskip era, it is standard praxis for this site to gradually upgrade shonen characters by storyarc, as they climb in displayed power levels.

Ichigo and Naruto aren't done like that at all.

 

[CinCameron20]

@Super

Naruto is definitely done like that, but with more keys than necessary. It should be simplified slightly.