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Regarding Bleach's Soul Crush In VS Match Ups

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Ok so I just want to make sure I've wrapped my head around this correctly, and this is hypothetical btw:

Character A from verse 1 resists a 10 person mind-wipe.
Character B from verse 2 can wipe 20 people, has a verse mechanic that allows them to concentrate their abilities on single targets, and we know it applies to their mind manip. There are no feats overcoming resistance (no one was able to in-verse).
Under the current changes A would resist B's mind manip because the difference is unquantifiable?
Yes, surprisingly, like how we treat stat amps that are unquantificable and there's no way to know if they even overpower significantly someone that was otherwise on the same level of the user, for example.
If there's a way to correlate B's higher potency to resistance bypassing it'd be another story, but as it is currently? Eh...
 
Huh... That sounds like it breeches NLF territory.
Character A would be resisting a level of potency they've never encountered.

For instance, some verses have forms of invulnerability that function as hax in-verse, but this site always limits it's degree of durability to whatever highest AP it was been shown/stated/scaled to be superior to. For good reason.
 
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The problem is that such potency can't be measured for that kind of purpose in the first place.
We don't go around grabbing an unquantificable stat amp and saying it lets the user stomp those that were on the same level as it otherwise if there's no feats or implications to claim it's that high in comparison to begin with.
 
We don't call it a stomp, but we do denote it as Higher because by definition is has to be a greater effect.
If two have a comparable effect, then one verse brings another instance of that effect but acknowledges it as completely superior, that in itself would be the implication that pushes the potency above the resistance of the other example.
 
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If that's the case, then yes, but simply being "higher" doesn't necessarily means it's going to bypass the resistance, as simply put, potency and resistance layers simply don't correlate, as it was explained in the thread that implemented that rule. Invulnerability is treated differently as it directly relates to AP and Durability in a way, while hax abilities like soul manip don't to begin with.
 
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Imagine given Gon these abilities in a fight against Ichigo just because you need to equalize it so he doesn’t get Reiatsu crush.

Giving Reiatsu to Gon will also give him:

Soul destruction
Stun
Fear
Hax negation
Chikaku
Phantom Pain
Reiatsu vents (block them and he explodes from the inside out)
Reiatsu weakness (meaning someone like Uryu can completely attack his soul and remove his powers for good by destroying their soul. Byakuya did the same thing to Ichigo)
Soul Manipulation resistance
 
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Im gonna give my opinion, but I think that characters that have strictly spiritual energy, which maybe has connection to the soul (such as Naruto or Dragonball character). Should resists it, if and only if they have enough AP.
But only because they have spiritual energy, so a fair connection with bleach can be made forcefully To ignore soul hax Layer.

But just being stronger or by tier or having magic, is not a reason, (such as Saitama or character that use magic or weird form of energy like one piece character not related to the soul) so they need soul hax resistance feat To the same level. Even if equalisation take palace.

this is the only solution I can see, because straight up equalise everything and give resistance is dumb. We don’t make it for other novel or verse that use soul hax.

TLDR: soul crush is always the same for every verse, so they need resistance, but verse with strictly spiritual energy and no other form of energy, can resist it via AP due to a forced connection.
 
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DBZ has some good soul manipulation resistance, but Naruto soul manipulation resistance feats are poor. Very low tier.
 
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thats not even a good soul resistance feat, as hakai is baseline
Do you know that Naruto and DB soul resistance are literally the same level right?
Better than anything shown in Naruto. Hakai is from the Gods that stomp the Naruto verse, and one of Naruto's best Soul resistance on panel is pulling the soul back into the body with its own hands. That is barely a resistance at all. He didn't resist it, he force it back with his hands but I am been generous and given them that feat. Six Path users don't resist TSB soul "destruction" which is brought into question to not even be that. The Six path users are just immune to it if we are been generous. We all know it just nulls the Edo and didn't do anything to Minato's soul but keep his soul hands trap in the Edo's hands on the ground.
 
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Better than anything shown in Naruto. Hakai is from the Gods that stomp the Naruto verse, and one of Naruto's best Soul resistance on panel is pulling the soul back into the body with its own hands. That is barely a resistance at all. He didn't resist it, he force it back with his hands but I am been generous and given them that feat. Six Path users don't resist TSB soul "destruction" which is brought into question to not even be that. The Six path users are just immune to it if we are been generous. We all know it just nulls the Edo and didn't do anything to Minato's soul but keep his soul hands trap in the Edo's hands on the ground.
you know that the AP of the soul destroyer doesn't matter right?
 
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Better than anything shown in Naruto. Hakai is from the Gods that stomp the Naruto verse, and one of Naruto's best Soul resistance on panel is pulling the soul back into the body with its own hands.
Actually, no, chakra was accepted currently as Soul, and TSB does erase chakra, aka erasing souls, and TSB users resist that
 
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Actually, no, chakra was accepted currently as Soul, and TSB does erase chakra, aka erasing souls, and TSB users resist that
Souls are made of chakra in Naruto. Correct. It contains half spiritual energy, still if it doesn't say to attack the soul directly, with the exception of the Soul Reaper seal jutsu, is not worth as soul manipulation resistance. TSB doesn't erase chakra or souls. It negates jutsu Edo, too many anti-feats against it. This has gone far from the Bleach discussion. Do us a favor and drop this argument. You are welcome to come to my page and discuss it there. This is the last comment from me about this in this thread. Quoting me about this will not be seeing or answer back. Unfollowing.
 
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False nothing says tsb erases souls. Charka being soul is very inconsistent.

1. People can interact with chakra but can't interact with souls. It's even stated in the databooks souls are immune to physical attacks. When the edo tensie was released souls were bypassing sealing justu and chakra barriers.

2.When kakashi used up all his chakra why was his soul not erased. When kurama baryon mode used up all his chakra his soul was not erased.

3. Because they can interact with chakra everyone should be able to soul rip. They literally have special justu for soul attacks.
 
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1. People can interact with chakra but can't interact with souls. It's even stated in the databooks souls are immune to physical attacks.
Well, for one, no one can directly interact with pure chakra. Even the absorption is via touching the person or technique themselves. Same with chakra point stuff and anything having to do with "interaction".

Like, no one is going around smacking chakra pools out of people.
 
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Bump, I found out from another thread that Base Aizen was able to Soul Crush Grimmjow to his knees. And that Grimmjow housed a million souls, would that count as potency or layers?
 
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IDK about the mechanics of this verse in particular, but the potency should be based most likely on how many resistance layers the power may bypass, as anything else is unquantificable (And thus unusable) at best.
And by resistance layer I mean A resisting B's power, but C bypassing A's resistance, which would lead into two resistances layers, for example.
 
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That depends on how the term is used, there's really no proper standard for it, in my case it was based under the assumption that bypassing a resistance with no "extra" layers is a single resistance layer level, for instance, but the point is made clear enought in any case.
 
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That depends on how the term is used, there's really no proper standard for it, in my case it was based under the assumption that bypassing a resistance with no "extra" layers is a single resistance layer level, for instance, but the point is made clear enought in any case.
Oh ok, I get it now. So like in Bleach, Aizen can Soul Crush (disintegrate the soul) a normal human being that has no resistance to Soul Manip. But against Shinigami or Hollows, at best he can incapacitate or paralyse his opponent. Does this mean that the Shinigami and Hollow have single layer resistance, but are being affected by a second layer?
 
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Oh ok, I get it now. So like in Bleach, Aizen can Soul Crush (disintegrate the soul) a normal human being that has no resistance to Soul Manip. But against Shinigami or Hollows, at best he can incapacitate or paralyse his opponent. Does this mean that the Shinigami and Hollow have single layer resistance, but are being affected by a second layer?
it's probably more of a limited resistance to soul destruction on their side
 
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Oh ok, I get it now. So like in Bleach, Aizen can Soul Crush (disintegrate the soul) a normal human being that has no resistance to Soul Manip. But against Shinigami or Hollows, at best he can incapacitate or paralyse his opponent. Does this mean that the Shinigami and Hollow have single layer resistance, but are being affected by a second layer?
If I remember the layers that where being talked on the general thread or was something like

Normal humans <<< strong souls <<<< tatsuki <<<< shinigami fodder <<<<< 3rd seats <<<<< vice captains <<<< espada/captains <<<< aizen ~yamaji

Something like that I think

The whole chain is still being worked on
 
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Oh ok, I get it now. So like in Bleach, Aizen can Soul Crush (disintegrate the soul) a normal human being that has no resistance to Soul Manip. But against Shinigami or Hollows, at best he can incapacitate or paralyse his opponent. Does this mean that the Shinigami and Hollow have single layer resistance, but are being affected by a second layer?
That's just translate to a below baseline resistance, for it to be a resistance they'd have to not be affected by a significant amount (or more specifically, it can be rounded to not being affected), so for cases where they're incap'd or similar (rather than just uh... dying) it's below baseline, but when they aren't affected it's baseline.
 
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Oh ok, I get it now. So like in Bleach, Aizen can Soul Crush (disintegrate the soul) a normal human being that has no resistance to Soul Manip. But against Shinigami or Hollows, at best he can incapacitate or paralyse his opponent. Does this mean that the Shinigami and Hollow have single layer resistance, but are being affected by a second layer?
Yeah we aizen is suppressing himself they can survive. But when he's not the also get vaporized. Aizen vaped yhwachs goo,was going soul crush the soul palace,could vape shun ect all while being suppressed by his chair and seals.

Even kenpachi could soul crush captain level fighters when he goes all out
 
Naruto's profile has Resistance to Soul Manipulation for resisting having his soul yanked by Nagato
I see. But I am pretty sure that was because of nine tails cloak. Both Kurama and Naruto are different. Naruto orginal soul was half removed by Nagato and Naruto stopped it with Kurama chakra. Its more of an tug of war. ITACHI saved them in time otherwise Naruto soul would have removed. We can see Kurama getting pulled out of Naruto with ease. Naruto nor kurama resisted anything when Madara pulled tailed beast out of them.

Well as far as wiki soul manipulation explanation page I don't think holding a soul with another power gives any resistance.

Also we don't see any resistance when kurama got sealed away inside Naruto with forbidden Jutsu.
 
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I see. But I am pretty sure that was because of nine tails cloak. Both Kurama and Naruto are different. Naruto orginal soul was half removed by Nagato and Naruto stopped it with Kurama chakra. Its more of an tug of war. ITACHI saved them in time otherwise Naruto soul would have removed.
Still counts as resistance, a lot of Naruto's abilities specifies when he's using Kurama chakra or not/
We can see Kurama getting pulled out of Naruto with ease. Naruto nor kurama resisted anything when Madara pulled tailed beast out of them.

Well as far as wiki soul manipulation explanation page I don't think holding a soul with another power gives any resistance.

Also we don't see any resistance when kurama got sealed away inside Naruto with forbidden Jutsu.
Completely different from Soul Manip
 
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Also isn't tanking a EE is gives resistance to EE not soul resistance.
Depending on what kind of EE it is, if it's EE that only erases the physical body then no but if it's EE that can erases Soul then yes.

Its similar on how being resistant towards Deconstruction gives you inherent resistances towards Matter Manipulation.
 
I meant did he resisted it with his Soul. Just so he tanked EE doesn't inheritedly gives him Soul resistance.
Depending on what kind of EE it is, if it's EE that only erases the physical body then no but if it's EE that can erases Soul then yes.

Its similar on how being resistant towards Deconstruction gives you inherent resistances towards Matter Manipulation.
My thoughts also same. But if someone tanks EE with just pure physical energy then they shouldn't get resistance to soul manipulation. We have many characters who are physically Stronger but their soul being very weak.
 
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surviving/tanking EE gives resistance to EE, not soul manipulation.
similar to how you can destroy or affect concept without being able to manipulate the concept you just need non-physical interaction. because you're affecting a soul by being able to interact with soul with your NPI not because you have soul manip.

it's like saying just because you have soul, mind and matter resistance you suddenly get EE resistance. just because you survive soul destruction doesn't mean you can resist having your soul changed or modified
 
surviving/tanking EE gives resistance to EE, not soul manipulation.
similar to how you can destroy or affect concept without being able to manipulate the concept you just need non-physical interaction. because you're affecting a soul by being able to interact with soul with your NPI not because you have soul manip.

it's like saying just because you have soul, mind and matter resistance you suddenly get EE resistance. just because you survive soul destruction doesn't mean you can resist having your soul changed or modified
Great points.
 
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But if someone tanks EE with just pure physical energy then they shouldn't get resistance to soul manipulation. We have many characters who are physically Stronger but their soul being very weak.
"physical energy". You do realise Ki has been refered to as spiritual energy on many occasions. This isn't superman and his Solar energy which could be refered to as "physical energy". Ki is pretty close to Reiyroku and Chakra. They are tied to the Soul. When you swap bodies via soul exchange, you keep your Ki signature. If you absorb people's Ki like Moro and Cell, you can literally see their souls inside them. ( Example 1) when Cell powered up against 17 and Piccolo and 2)when Goku sensed Moro's power and saw their souls 3) when Vegeta removed Moro's stolen Ki and used it to infuse the souls back into their bodies)
 
"physical energy". You do realise Ki has been refered to as spiritual energy on many occasions. This isn't superman and his Solar energy which could be refered to as "physical energy". Ki is pretty close to Reiyroku and Chakra. They are tied to the Soul. When you swap bodies via soul exchange, you keep your Ki signature. If you absorb people's Ki like Moro and Cell, you can literally see their souls inside them. ( Example 1) when Cell powered up against 17 and Piccolo and 2)when Goku sensed Moro's power and saw their souls 3) when Vegeta removed Moro's stolen Ki and used it to infuse the souls back into their bodies)
surviving/tanking EE gives resistance to EE, not soul manipulation.
similar to how you can destroy or affect concept without being able to manipulate the concept you just need non-physical interaction. because you're affecting a soul by being able to interact with soul with your NPI not because you have soul manip.

it's like saying just because you have soul, mind and matter resistance you suddenly get EE resistance. just because you survive soul destruction doesn't mean you can resist having your soul changed or modified
Read this. Either way my point still Stands.
 
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rough draft made by decieved

Tatsuki <<< SS Arc Lieutenants <<< SS Arc Captains <<< TYBW Lieutenants <<< TYBW Captains <<< Shinigami Aizen <<< Bankai Yamamoto <<< Hogyoku Form 1-3 <<< Butterfly Aizen <<< Dangai Ichigo <<< Mugetsu <<< Hollowfied Shikai Ichigo <<< Aizen <<< Soul King Yhwach << True Bankai Ichigo <<<<<< Prime Soul King.

not perfected yet
 
rough draft made by decieved

Tatsuki <<< SS Arc Lieutenants <<< SS Arc Captains <<< TYBW Lieutenants <<< TYBW Captains <<< Shinigami Aizen <<< Bankai Yamamoto <<< Hogyoku Form 1-3 <<< Butterfly Aizen <<< Dangai Ichigo <<< Mugetsu <<< Hollowfied Shikai Ichigo <<< Aizen <<< Soul King Yhwach << True Bankai Ichigo <<<<<< Prime Soul King.

not perfected yet
Looks good. I have some other proposal I will drop it later.
 
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