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Regarding Bleach's Soul Crush In VS Match Ups

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Not really an issue with the lower tier characters, but this issue has always happened in almost every VS Thread regarding the God Tiers (Ichigo, Aizen, Yhwach, Soul King).

Now obviously, in order to make a fair match up, the characters we put them against, need to have a higher level of Resistance to Soul Manipulation in order to make sure that it isn't a stomp thread. The issue is, no one knows to what extent the Soul Crush of the God Tiers is. Some say it is in the billions range since Yhwach was going to affect both the populations of Soul Society and The World Of The Living. Some say it's in the quintillions range since everything has a soul, (plants, rocks, atoms). Some say it's Infinite since Reiatsu = AP and the God Tiers are 3-A to Low 2-C. Just to make sure the issue doesn't happen in any VS Thread again, I think we should discuss and pin down to what extent the Soul Crush affects.

I myself am not too knowledgeable on Bleach, but I think it was important to point this out.
 
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wasn't it just agreed that range isn't the main defining factor for soul hax? and AP isn't even close to being one. Unless it's layered, anyone with soul haxx resistance is free to resist it
 
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wasn't it just agreed that range isn't the main defining factor for soul hax? and AP isn't even close to being one. Unless it's layered, anyone with soul haxx resistance is free to resist it
Reiatsu can bypass so many layers of resistance it's not even funny. if the new policy on mind/soul hax get through, Reiatsu Crush will become one of the most potent passive in the wiki .
 
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Then why are we talking about it being billions or quintillions or something? It's just [insert layers]. Pretty op but it's not 4d hax at least
 
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Because mind and soul hax are still using numbers of affected as their primary scaling .

Layers will be discussed and used only if the new policy come to pass and is applied .
 
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Then why are we talking about it being billions or quintillions or something? It's just [insert layers]. Pretty op but it's not 4d hax at least
Because the dude who made the thread maybe dont even know about the new thread regarding numbers =/= baseline of soul hax?
 
Hmmm, i don't think so.
Senna is the Shinenju, she can manipulate the blanks bc of that but i don't think it directly scales to her soul hax.
 
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What policy?
The ridicoulous notion that more beings affected by mind/soul hax is just range and have nothing to do with potency . Basically , mind/soul haxxing 1 person is the same as mind /soul haxxing an infinite ammount of persons.

The user that brought that up think that only feats and layers of resistance should be used to judge the potency of those two hax .

But his thread went nowhere, got closed and have to be remade in a staff only thread considering how major this revision could be .

So for now , numbers of affected are still very important and relevant .
 
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The ridicoulous notion that more beings affected by mind/soul hax is just range and have nothing to do with potency . Basically , mind/soul haxxing 1 person is the same as mind /soul haxxing an infinite ammount of persons.

The user that brought that up think that only feats and layers of resistance should be used to judge the potency of those two hax .

But his thread went nowhere, got closed and have to be remade in a staff only thread considering how major this revision could be .

So for now , numbers of affected are still very important and relevant .
It just depends on how it works, numbers shouldn't be factored if someone is applying a hax regardless of how many individuals are within its range (We don't do that for disease manip and nearly any other hax, for instance), but only if such thing is portrayed as a legitimate case of applying more power than normal for such act (And in a quantificable way for the purpose of comparing it to an actual resistance, time stopping 5 people within an area isn't comparable to time stopping a single one that did have a resistance), and even then some way to confirm such energy being concentrable to a single target would be also required to not make up assumptions.

Anyways, yes, this will be tackled in the future in a staff-only CRT when I have the time for it.
 
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Now this is something that I only heard from a few Bleach fans, so take my words with a grain of salt.
Apparently, if the character fighting the Bleach character has some form of soul hax resistance AND is stronger than them, then they're not affected by "durr reisatsu crush gg hurr"
(I'll try to look where this was mentioned)
 
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Now this is something that I only heard from a few Bleach fans, so take my words with a grain of salt.
Apparently, if the character fighting the Bleach character has some form of soul hax resistance AND is stronger than them, then they're not affected by "durr reisatsu crush gg hurr"
Not enough to survive Soul Crush
 
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it was good to open this topic according to the wiki rules, and if suanki comes to the conclusion that there are a lot of people who say that the accepted opinion says that db characters and rk do not handle akm sama works, this topic will be very nice
 

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Apparently, if the character fighting the Bleach character has some form of soul hax resistance AND is stronger than them, then they're not affected by "durr reisatsu crush gg hurr"
Correction: they don't even need some form of soul hax resistance. The pressure is only felt by characters whose own energy is lower than their opponent. For characters with a comparable or higher energy, they wouldn't feel the effect.
 

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It affects the soul when it's strong enough to work. Kenpachi explained it in quite detail. The being who releases more spiritual pressure would be able to block any attacks from a weaker being. This extends to "reiatsu crush" since it is based on releasing the spiritual pressure. If someone's spiritual pressure is high, the weaker character's spiritual pressure won't be able to penetrate it, and hence won't work. It's a very basic caveat of the ability that renders it useless against any strong opponent.
 
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It affects the soul when it's strong enough to work. Kenpachi explained it in quite detail. The being who releases more spiritual pressure would be able to block any attacks from a weaker being. This extends to "reiatsu crush" since it is based on releasing the spiritual pressure. If someone's spiritual pressure is high, the weaker character's spiritual pressure won't be able to penetrate it, and hence won't work. It's a very basic caveat of the ability that renders it useless against any strong opponent.
Wrong , and quite badly at that .

Quincies don't release energy at all , and yet they are not soul crushed by shinigamis or hollow.

You need a strong soul to resist your soul getting crushed, no ammount of energy will ever counter that .

You continue to be confused on how bleach work.
 
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It affects the soul when it's strong enough to work. Kenpachi explained it in quite detail. The being who releases more spiritual pressure would be able to block any attacks from a weaker being. This extends to "reiatsu crush" since it is based on releasing the spiritual pressure. If someone's spiritual pressure is high, the weaker character's spiritual pressure won't be able to penetrate it, and hence won't work. It's a very basic caveat of the ability that renders it useless against any strong opponent.
I mean, Bleach characters have their strength based in reiatsu, but even if its a human level character, they still can resist the effect of soul hax even when others humans doesn't, like Ichigo sister, she has some short of soul resistance despite normal humans not having it, and she is a normal human
 
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It affects the soul when it's strong enough to work. Kenpachi explained it in quite detail. The being who releases more spiritual pressure would be able to block any attacks from a weaker being. This extends to "reiatsu crush" since it is based on releasing the spiritual pressure. If someone's spiritual pressure is high, the weaker character's spiritual pressure won't be able to penetrate it, and hence won't work. It's a very basic caveat of the ability that renders it useless against any strong opponent.
Factually untrue, not only are you completely misunderstanding what Kenpachi said, but it's just straight wrong anyway.

Quincy emit virtually zero Reiatsu and aren't Soul Crushed

Or a more recent example, the Hollows in the latest chapter of Bleach, they're directly stated to not even emit Reiatsu and they don't get soul crushed.

You've already expressed your clear lack of knowledge regarding Bleach in other CRT's, so I'm going to give you some advice and tell you to quit trying to act knowledgeable about things you don't understand
 
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but even if its a human level character, they still can resist the effect of soul hax even when others humans doesn't, like Ichigo sister, she has some short of soul resistance despite normal humans not having it, and she is a normal human
Like, we have normal humans that know ichigo (meaning they have some short of soul resistance) not dying to aizen reiatsu, despite others normal humans dying to it
 
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Bleach characters having their energy soul based, meaning that the amount of power also will means the amount of resistance
orpRqRIC_400x400.jpg
 

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Quincies don't release energy at all , and yet they are not soul crushed by shinigamis or hollow.
That's not at all relevant here. Quincies are spiritually aware beings who have a strong soul, I did not deny that. Doesn't impact how the ability works in the first place.

Or a more recent example, the Hollows in the latest chapter of Bleach, they're directly stated to not even emit Reiatsu and they don't get soul crushed.
Does it mean "soul crush gg" doesn't work on beings that have no reiatsu?

None of those points detract anything regarding how the aura system works. If your aura is stronger than the other character, you naturally wouldn't feel its effect.
 
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That's not at all relevant here. Quincies are spiritually aware beings who have a strong soul, I did not deny that. Doesn't impact how the ability works in the first place.


Does it mean "soul crush gg" doesn't work on beings that have no reiatsu?

None of those points detract anything regarding how the aura system works.
Except you literally just said that it's Reiatsu vs Reiatsu, the one who emits the least gets affected, and with big enough gaps gets soul crushed

The Quincy example literally shits on that argument, even putting aside the recent Hollows who don't even emit Reiatsu at all, which only further tears it apart.

No, it means it's not related to Reiatsu at all, never was, even another from of soul manip in the verse, that being Gonzui, is directly stated to be resisted by the strength of the soul by Yammy, aka soul resistance.

You have no argument, you've been bringing up the same rehashed things for years and yet nothing has changed.

Honestly, your arguments are so bad that you even had to circumvent arguing against Reiatsu Crush entirely and just change the Versus Thread Equalization rules directly, which even then, didn't actually effect anything.
 

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Except you literally just said that it's Reiatsu vs Reiatsu, the one who emits the least gets affected, and with big enough gaps gets soul crushed
I did, in cases where it is reiatsu vs reiatsu. Quincies are not relevant to what I said as they are different. "Reiatsu crush" is nothing but a person subconsciously releasing their energy, as in, it works like aura. An aura from a person won't work on another person who is capable of emitting more energy/aura. This is what happens in normal cases and this is also what Kenpachi said. Gonzui is a whole different ability and is not relevant either.

You have no argument, you've been bringing up the same rehashed things for years and yet nothing has changed.
Correction: you're bringing up the same rehashed arguments over and over again. It has been discussed in a staff thread and established a long time ago that stuff like "reiatsu crush" and "nen crush" don't work on beings with higher energy.

Please stop spreading misinformation.
 
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I did, in cases where it is reiatsu vs reiatsu. Quincies are not relevant to what I said as they are different. "Reiatsu crush" is nothing but a person subconsciously releasing their energy, as in, it works like aura. An aura from a person won't work on another person who is capable of emitting more energy/aura. This is what happens in normal cases and this is also what Kenpachi said.
But quincies don't release Aura, but still don't even die to Soul Crush, so, the argument of ''Aura vs Aura'' is not a factor
Correction: you're bringing up the same rehashed arguments over and over again. It has been discussed in a staff thread and established a long time ago that stuff like "reiatsu crush" and "nen crush" don't work on beings with higher energy.
Which thread?
 
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But quincies don't release Aura, but still don't even die to Soul Crush, so, the argument of ''Aura vs Aura'' is not a factor
Not that I really understand what you guys are arguing about but this is not what he meant.
He means they are strong enough to bear the aura from.the strip her person so they don't need to have the ability to release the aura themselves
 
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I did, in cases where it is reiatsu vs reiatsu. Quincies are not relevant to what I said as they are different.
They're different how? Care to show where they were stated to be different?

They clearly go against your argument, so you try and separate them as "different" because you can't refute it otherwise.
An aura from a person won't work on another person who is capable of emitting more energy/aura. This is what happens in normal cases and this is also what Kenpachi said.
This isn't what Kenpachi said, he was referring to physical strikes as shown by the fact that he clarifies this when Ichigo fails to cut him, not once did he mention soul crush.
Correction: you're bringing up the same rehashed arguments over and over again. It has been discussed in a staff thread and established a long time ago that stuff like "reiatsu crush" and "nen crush" don't work on beings with higher energy.
Link this thread
Please stop spreading misinformation.
ddmcdqs-ecd2b865-fa25-4550-adf0-f5962af5484f.png
 
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Not that I really understand what you guys are arguing about but this is not what he meant.
He means they are strong enough to bear the aura from.the strip her person so they don't need to have the ability to release the aura themselves
then I guess tatsuki arisawa (normal human) is now High 6-A due not dying to Aizen reiatsu?
 

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They clearly go against your argument, so you try and separate them as "different" because you can't refute it otherwise.
I can say something like "if you are asking why quincies are different than normal shinigamis then you should probably not dabble in bleach threads" like you suggested to me moments ago, but I won't. You don't deserve such responses.
They don't. My original argument is about aura having no effect on stronger aura. Not that quincies have strong or weak souls. My original argument has to do with "one" reason why reaitsu crush doesn't work in all cases, not that it's the "only" reason.

This isn't what Kenpachi said, he was referring to physical strikes as shown by the fact that he clarifies this when Ichigo fails to cut him, not once did he mention soul crush.
Same principle. Kenpachi's point was that Ichigo's lower spiritual pressure cannot penetrate Kenpachi's higher spiritual pressure. Reiatsu crush is spiritual pressure. A lower aura does not penetrate a stronger aura. When the aura itself doesn't reach any other character, it won't have any effect. This is such a basic thing.

Link this thread
Search energy equalization and you will probably find it.

then I guess tatsuki arisawa (normal human) is now High 6-A due not dying to Aizen reiatsu?
This is a very dumb argument to make. Tatsuki was clearly affected by Aizen's reiatsu.
 
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I can say something like "if you are asking why quincies are different than normal shinigamis then you should probably not dabble in bleach threads" like you suggested to me moments ago, but I won't. You don't deserve such responses.
They don't. My original argument is about aura having no effect on stronger aura. Not that quincies have strong or weak souls. My original argument has to do with "one" reason why reaitsu crush doesn't work in all cases, not that it's the "only" reason.
So instead of proving that Quincy somehow resist Reiatsu Crush completely differently to everyone else in the verse, you just hand wave the argument?

Great, didn't expect anything different from the guy who tried having us find size of SS and WoTL by pixel scaling Mayuri through a "window".
They don't. My original argument is about aura having no effect on stronger aura. Not that quincies have strong or weak souls. My original argument has to do with "one" reason why reaitsu crush doesn't work in all cases, not that it's the "only" reason.
Something you've yet to prove and instead just keep repeating

You concede to the possibility that Reiatsu crush can be resisted by soul resistance in the case of Quincies, but refuse to accept it for others? For no reason other than personal bias apparently
Same principle. Kenpachi's point was that Ichigo's lower spiritual pressure cannot penetrate Kenpachi's higher spiritual pressure. Reiatsu crush is spiritual pressure. A lower aura does not penetrate a stronger aura. When the aura itself doesn't reach any other character, it won't have any effect. This is such a basic thing.
That was never said, I'm not sure why you're trying to misconstrue Kenpachi's statement.

He's referring to Reiryoku, not Reiatsu, even in the raws, the Kanji "霊力" is used, meaning Spiritual Power, Reiryoku directly correlates to stats, so obviously a character with more Reiryoku can directly no sell a strike from a character with less, Reiatsu isn't mentioned here.

Also, we have Aizen, the second most intelligent character in the verse, concluding that Ichigo had discarded his Reiryoku and therefore his Reiatsu, but wasn't confused as to why Ichigo wasn't just dying in his presence, just further proof that Reiatsu is irrelevant for resisting it.
Search energy equalization and you will probably find it.
Better yet, prove something you claim, I'm not going to search for something that you claim exists.
This is a very dumb argument to make. Tatsuki was clearly affected by Aizen's reiatsu.
How about this argument, 3-A/Low 2-C Orihime?

Oh but I'm sure you'd say that's just an exception to fit your already faulty logic.
 
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Resisting spiritual pressure by being stronger doesn't make sense, it attacks the soul so why would being able to exert more energy protect you from that? Also characters who are way weaker than other characters can resist spirit pressure, so being stronger or of comparable strength doesn't matter, you just need a certain potency of soul resistance, by the time you are lieutenant level I think you can start exerting a spirit pressure strong enough to effect people passively. Correct me if I'm wrong though I still not finish bleach I'm in the second arc.
 
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Someone stated that bleach can't have matchups due to it, I gave one verse with the soul resistance, it's relevant.
 
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I really don't have mpre to say, just read the first sentence
first sentence of the op?

''Not really an issue with the lower tier characters, but this issue has always happened in almost every VS Thread regarding the God Tiers (Ichigo, Aizen, Yhwach, Soul King).''

this one?
 

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Wrong , and quite badly at that .

Quincies don't release energy at all , and yet they are not soul crushed by shinigamis or hollow.

You need a strong soul to resist your soul getting crushed, no ammount of energy will ever counter that .

You continue to be confused on how bleach work.
Quincy do possess Reiatsu / Spiritual Pressure. They absorb spiritual energy to use in their attacks, which is why it seems like they don't release energy outwards, but they definitely possess Reiatsu.
 
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Quincy do possess Reiatsu / Spiritual Pressure. They absorb spiritual energy to use in their attacks, which is why it seems like they don't release energy outwards, but they definitely possess Reiatsu.
He was wrong there but the point is that Quincy release virtually zero Reiatsu compared to Shinigami and Hollows for example, which is exactly why we don't list Reiatsu Crush on their profiles, so even though he was sort of wrong, it still stands.

Also as I mentioned earlier, the new Hollows introduced in the latest chapter don't emit Reiatsu at all, which is why nobody detected them, so it's not just the Quincy thing anymore, there's now two clear instances of characters without or only emitting small amounts of Reiatsu being unaffected by Reiatsu Crush.

Lastly, I kinda forgot to include this in my earlier posts so this isn't directed at you, but even if we were to agree that Reiatsu is what resists Reiatsu Crush, Reiatsu isn't Bleach's energy, it's an application of their energy, Reiryoku is what gets equalized, not Reiatsu.

It would be like saying in a HxH versus Naruto fight that the character from Naruto can use Nen's application of "Ten" because of verse equalization, at that point, you are giving abilities due to verse equalization, which goes against the whole thing in the first place.
 
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The spiritual pressure of his attacks. yes they absorb reishi and use it as fuel for their attacks , but they don't release any passively or extremely little, unlike the shinigamis and hollows.

Therefore , it would mean that they would have zero defenses against the reiatsu crush of the shinigami and co and yet they are completely unaffected by it . my point is still valid , i just worded it poorly.

edit : ninja'd
 
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It's kind of tricky to set Bleach's soul Hax level. In the work, every matter has a soul and if the potency is to be defined for that reason then I believe it would be very difficult to say a minimum level.

On the other hand we have hollows that have at least 100 million souls but are still affected by RC and Ikimikidomoe having devoured several hollows...
 
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I guess we can start off by deciding if the God Tier's Soul Crush is Infinite or Finite. If Infinite, we'll add that, if Finite, then we decide on what level.
 
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Are there provably infinite souls in bleach? if the answer is no, then it is finite.

If the answer is yes then the next step is to provide evidence as to why anyone scales to that.
 
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we know that the Blanks alone are infinite . The Blanks are only a small fraction of the whole soul cycle , they are lost souls .

So that would mean that the god tier, wich are able to sustain the soul cycle would scale to that , at least .

Imo, that CRT should wait until we see if the guidelines on how Soul/mind hax's potency is judged change. Because if they do , this CRT will become useless.
 
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Isn't the entire new rule
Range/numbers =\= Potency
That wasn't implemented at all.

A user brought to possibility to light , but his thread went nowhere and have to be remade in "staff only" , discussed, agreed on by most staff and then applied.
So for now , numbers are still important.
 
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While I can see your points, my issue is that numbers aren't necessarily always a factor for the potency by default, often it's just a matter of it being spreaded like any other hax for it to work (aka, range), and so it is no different from a baseline ability that wouldn't really affect someone with an actual resistance.
 
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Great, didn't expect anything different from the guy who tried having us find size of SS and WoTL by pixel scaling Mayuri through a "window".
I had not yet watched that movie, so it was an honest misunderstanding from the scan that was posted. But it's a good thing you did that, people only resort to attacking others when they feel their arguments don't hold water.

He's referring to Reiryoku, not Reiatsu, even in the raws, the Kanji "霊力" is used, meaning Spiritual Power, Reiryoku directly correlates to stats, so obviously a character with more Reiryoku can directly no sell a strike from a character with less, Reiatsu isn't mentioned here.
Changing the terms doesn't change how the mechanism works. He said that when two spiritual forces collide, the weaker absorbs the impact. And that Ichigo's spirit energy attack through his sword was weaker than the spirit energy leaking out of him subconsciously.
The energy that is released outside the body is reiatsu. It's an aura. What happens to an aura that meets another greater aura? It gets negged.

it attacks the soul so why would being able to exert more energy protect you from that?
That's like saying a beam of soul destroying energy can destroy anybody's soul even if it doesn't hit the opponent? The aura needs to make contact with someone in order to affect them. Someone having a stronger aura would naturally not be affected by it in the first place for the soul hax to take place.
 
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That's like saying a beam of soul destroying energy can destroy anybody's soul even if it doesn't hit the opponent? The aura needs to make contact with someone in order to affect them. Someone having a stronger aura would naturally not be affected by it in the first place for the soul hax to take place.



doesn't the physical body by the nature of mood bypass auras ? why is a reiatsu spiritual aura kept the same as a physical aura ? so you're damaging the soul with this, but an energy unrelated to the soul is blocking it? it doesn't happen between bleach characters because either spirits or characters who don't even have contact with a spirit without high spirit power are blocked, so don't be silly, according to me dec
 
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I had not yet watched that movie, so it was an honest misunderstanding from the scan that was posted. But it's a good thing you did that, people only resort to attacking others when they feel their arguments don't hold water.


Changing the terms doesn't change how the mechanism works. He said that when two spiritual forces collide, the weaker absorbs the impact. And that Ichigo's spirit energy attack through his sword was weaker than the spirit energy leaking out of him subconsciously.
The energy that is released outside the body is reiatsu. It's an aura. What happens to an aura that meets another greater aura? It gets negged.


That's like saying a beam of soul destroying energy can destroy anybody's soul even if it doesn't hit the opponent? The aura needs to make contact with someone in order to affect them. Someone having a stronger aura would naturally not be affected by it in the first place for the soul hax to take place.
Given that you just blatantly hand waved half my post, I'm going to do you one better and hand wave your entire post.

Not like you actually ever had a coherent argument anyway.
 
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Wrong , and quite badly at that .

Quincies don't release energy at all , and yet they are not soul crushed by shinigamis or hollow.

You need a strong soul to resist your soul getting crushed, no ammount of energy will ever counter that .

You continue to be confused on how bleach work.
Factually untrue, not only are you completely misunderstanding what Kenpachi said, but it's just straight wrong anyway.

Quincy emit virtually zero Reiatsu and aren't Soul Crushed

Or a more recent example, the Hollows in the latest chapter of Bleach, they're directly stated to not even emit Reiatsu and they don't get soul crushed.

You've already expressed your clear lack of knowledge regarding Bleach in other CRT's, so I'm going to give you some advice and tell you to quit trying to act knowledgeable about things you don't understand
How about when yhwach soul crushed bazz. In the novels it's also stated he soul crushed haibel. When they Quincy fist invaded they had mapped their spiritual pressures and said it was equal to or greater than a captains
 
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Would that affect this thread? Like, would the range of the ability =/= potency of the ability?
By default, yes, and even then the increase in potency would be unquantificable more often than not, let alone it no longer being assumable that a character can concentrate such power to a single target.
 
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How about when yhwach soul crushed bazz. In the novels it's also stated he soul crushed haibel. When they Quincy fist invaded they had mapped their spiritual pressures and said it was equal to or greater than a captains
Yhwach isn't an ordinary Quincy, hence why it's listed on his profile

And he's actually demonstrated soul crushing people, as you pointed out, unlike any other Quincy.
 
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Didn’t keep up with the thread past the part about the mechanics and extent of the mind hax (subtle suggestion vs entire rewrite) but it got me thinking. How would we treat a case where numbers is the defining factor in a verse rather than the extent of the mind hax? Example, A can completely dominate and alter the mind of one person but because B can give subtle suggestions to 10 people, the verse considers B to be more powerful than A in terms of mind hax. Would we say that B can overcome the resistance of C (from another verse in a thread) if it’s based on resisting something similar to A? Or would we go by how the site considers A’s feat to be > B’s?
 
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Didn’t keep up with the thread past the part about the mechanics and extent of the mind hax (subtle suggestion vs entire rewrite) but it got me thinking. How would we treat a case where numbers is the defining factor in a verse rather than the extent of the mind hax? Example, A can completely dominate and alter the mind of one person but because B can give subtle suggestions to 10 people, the verse considers B to be more powerful than A in terms of mind hax. Would we say that B can overcome the resistance of C (from another verse in a thread) if it’s based on resisting something similar to A? Or would we go by how the site considers A’s feat to be > B’s?
Assuming numbers involved do relate to potency of the ability, and they're indeed capable of (This can't be assumed) concentrating all of such power to a single individual and raise such power accordingly, it'd be unquantificable, so I'd just say it's inconclusive unless there's a more direct comparison in-universe over B's potency to determine if it can bypass a resistance on the level of what A's does, which is explained to be the case here, in which case I'd say that B's mindhax can indeed bypass the same kind of resistance A can, although unquantificably higher as said before in terms of potency, and this is assuming both mindhax abilities work the exact same beyond numbers and the before-mentioned aspects.
 
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I always saw the potency of Soul Crush as the effects. Like Arrancars would be able to literally bring their opponents to their knees, and then Aizen is able to outright destroy the soul.
 
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we have feats of yammy crushing a soul with resistance;bringing it the the verge of death, with his passive casual reiatsu, not even wanting to do it.

A soul without resistance receiving the full brunt of a RC possesing characther in battle mode(actually exerting his full reiatsu) would mean instant death.

And with resistance bypass now counting much more than before , reiatsu crush have became much much stronger than before given the dozens of examples of reiatsu crush bypassing the defenses of characthers wich already no selled the reiatsu of another characther, wich himself no selled the reiatsu of another etc ,etc.

I still disagree completely with bobsican's mind/soul manip rework as i think he made insanely more complicated than before for little benefits, but in the case of reiatsu crush , his rework buffed it immensely.

Now RC have all three categories of judging soul hax strengh really high:
numbers : from hundreds of millions to infinite with the latest feats.
resistance bypass : a very long chain of resistance bypass scaling.
potency : can induce many effects including death or erasure.

And even tho the effect is passive , it's linked to their energy, can be increased/decreased at will and can be focused on a single characther.
 
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Per the revision numbers are no longer necessarily relevant, affecting countless beings doesn't mean that countless power is also applied to each individual subject, nor does it mean that the user can concentrate all of such power to a single target (And raise it accordingly).
As usual, (citation needed).
 
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Per the revision numbers are no longer necessarily relevant, affecting countless beings doesn't mean that countless power is also applied to each individual subject, nor does it mean that the user can concentrate all of such power to a single target (And raise it accordingly).
As usual, (citation needed).
So, for a character to resist Soul Crush, they would need to show that they resisted having their soul disintegrated? So even if a character were to survive hax that affected thousands of souls, it would still be below having their soul disintegrated?
 
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pretty much yeah.

but even that won't be enough. Because some characther can even easily resist RC that would kill others. Honestly , the resistance bypass scaling chain of RC will have to be made accuratly , but it's going to be massive .
 
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It also depends on how such thousands of souls were affected.
If it was in the exact same way (being desintegrated), and such increase of numbers do relate to potency, while also including the capability of the user to concentrate such power to a single target, then it'd be superior, but still unquantificable if this increase can't be related to a proper resistance level, and thus unusable beyond how the verse treats it, like as we do with unquantificable stat amps and the like.
 
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Ok, so this is what was added to the Hax page, so we should be able to come up with a conclusion for this thread.

Note 2: When judging the potency of hax-based abilities such as Mind Manipulation and Soul Manipulation, and the resistance against them, there is a variety of factors to be potentially considered. Such as the mechanisms involved, how many people the power can affect, whether it has demonstrated to break through resistances, how great the effects are, etc.

These factors need to be examined with the mechanism in mind, to determine if they actually demonstrate potency. For example, for a mind-controlling gas simply affecting more people with it, by using lots of the gas, would not indicate an increase in potency of the gas as simply more of it was used. The effect couldn't be accumulated to be as strong on a single target as it is on all affected individuals summed up.

Whether a power can overcome a resistance against it based on certain feats has to be determined by comparing the various factors at play. For example, a resistance can be overcome by Mind Manipulation with higher potency in any factor, if the resistance is equal, less or unknown in all other factors. When it comes to resistance that is above the Mind Manipulation in some factors, while the Mind Manipulation that is superior in other factors, one has to see on a case-by-case basis whether a convincing argument can be put forth. Otherwise, such a situation will have an inconclusive result.

How the mechanism of the power (Such as the before-mentioned Mind Manipulation) interacts with the mechanism of the resistance is, of course, also relevant.
 
Ok so I just want to make sure I've wrapped my head around this correctly, and this is hypothetical btw:

Character A from verse 1 resists a 10 person mind-wipe.
Character B from verse 2 can wipe 20 people, has a verse mechanic that allows them to concentrate their abilities on single targets, and we know it applies to their mind manip. There are no feats overcoming resistance (no one was able to in-verse).
Under the current changes A would resist B's mind manip because the difference is unquantifiable?
 
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Ok so I just want to make sure I've wrapped my head around this correctly, and this is hypothetical btw:

Character A from verse 1 resists a 10 person mind-wipe.
Character B from verse 2 can wipe 20 people, has a verse mechanic that allows them to concentrate their abilities on single targets, and we know it applies to their mind manip. There are no feats overcoming resistance (no one was able to in-verse).
Under the current changes A would resist B's mind manip because the difference is unquantifiable?
Hmmm, are u saying that B can do a 20 person mind wipe on one person? But the verse itself hasn't shown resistance feats?
 
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