Record of Ragnarok: Whatever the hell happened to this verse

[Overlord775]

@Antoniofer
Look at this scan

Look at how the "darkness" spreads around from Zeus

Look at how the birds stop completly in place

and look at the timer goes to periodic 0

this is clearly either Time Stop or Time Slow to an absurd degree [the latter is less likely imo tho]

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

So, all of ur argument is "it changed color"?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

It doesn't exactly seen to be attack happening in zero time, though, considering the scan shows a decimal expansion after the first digit, instead of just labelling it as "0" from the start, in which case, it'd be just a number that infinitely approaches 0 but never actually reaches it.

If that's really the case, then it'd be still an Infinite Speed feat, in my view, considering that the usual speed equation would just take the form of the limit of S = D/T as T → 0, which diverges into infinity anyway.

And ultima also explained it

 

[Overlord775]

So, all of ur argument is "it changed color"?

it's not just "it changed colour", there's visibly a wave of energy that stops things in place as soon as it envelops them

Speed simply DOESN'T do that

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

it's not just "it changed colour", there's visibly a wave of energy that stops things in place as soon as it envelops them

Speed simply DOESN'T do that

Nor does it go at infinite, immesurable or irrelevant

The color change is just to show that it is that fast and the timer is to double it down

 

[Overlord775]

i can't even conprend what you said ti that first line

but, NO

1. If it was speed, then there's wouldn't be a goddamn wave of energy gradually stopping things in place it envelops, things would haven been jjust slowed down immidiatly and simultaneusly
2. the colour would have changed immidiatly back to normal the momet the action stopped, which IS NOT what happened, as Adam has several secods to talk smack before everything slowly reverts back to normal
3. The tecique is litterally called time maipulation and originates from the personification of Time

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

i can't even conprend what you said ti that first line

NO

1. If it was speed, then there's wouldnt' be a goddamn wave of energy gradually slowing down thing, things would haven been slowed dow immidiatly
2. the colour would have changed immidiatly back to normal the momet the action stopped, which IS NOT what happened, as Adam has several secods to talk smack before everything slowly reverts back to normal
3. The tecique is litterally called time maipulation and originates from the personification of Time

And the next chapter we have ares describing what happen

And he describes it as zeus prepares and next thing they know zeus had his neck backwards

The whole darkness and him talking smack was from the perspective of adam while the rest just saw zeus preparing and boom neck other side and like I said before the darkness is to show that all stopped and then add the timer

On top of that the whole context since the start of their fight has been to show how fast they are

 

[Antvasima]

I am not sure if this is a speed feat or time stop. We need more staff input.

 

[Antvasima]

@SomebodyData @Jvando @Antoniofer @Ultima_Reality

What do you think? Was it a very high MFTL+ feat (due to the number of zeros), an infinite speed feat, or a time stop feat? I am leaning towards the first option myself.

 

[Overlord775]

@TOAAPRESENCE1

And why wouldn't it be more accurate from Adam's perpective ? You know, the guy that ACTUALLY saw the tecnique being used

Also, the match up untill that point was more Zeus just showing off tbh

 

[PowerToScale]

Nothing Thor has done would limit him and all the statements for the other gods would serve as nothing but hype themselves. Unlike Thor’s statements which refer to actual events and feats in the history of the verse, the others have no such backing. Heimdall saying he can bust worlds doesn’t mean much when you are trying to dismiss the statements he made for Thor and Lu Bu being the strongest. You can’t have your cake and eat it. And if you really want to talk about feats, all the other gods so far are being harmed by Divine Weapons while Thor would break the strongest Divine Weapon with a swing.
Zeus being stated to be omniscient and omnipotent doesn’t work since during the first fight, the narrator even calls the gods supposedly omniscient which shows the statement is wrong. If you want to say that it doesn’t go against the omnipotent part, Zeus got his face kicked in by AdamRuling something doesn’t mean you scale above everything in it nor does it imply you rule by virtue of strength. Even when Zeus threatens everyone to stop fighting in Chapter 34, all of them are still ready to go until Odin makes them **** down instantly.

You completely ignored the actual information in favour of the hype text. It not being from a character only lends more support to its accuracy, not diminish its credibility as the characters have been repeatedly shown as fallible sources of information. Killing a bear refers to him being strong even in his childhood, dying of boredom refers to what happened in his past where he didn’t give a shit about anything and let himself be killed because nothing could challenge him anymore. If you really want to bring up the point of highlighting words, why not mention the fact that harming the strongest among the gods is highlighted.

Long story shorter, you ignore Thor and Lu Bu’s statements because they are “hype” in favour of their feats but proceed to compare it to the completely vacuous and unfounded hype statements of the other gods. You present these as fact but don’t bother to mention that all of the statements that mean something are all contradicted or come from a fallible source. In comparison, the statements I presented are not “contradicted” by anything but your statement which has been proven false by other scans independent of my own. You even bring attention to the headings of my scan rather than the non-hype information all while blatantly ignoring context of said information, and the narrative.

On the Shiva vs Rudra, anyone have any idea how to calc it? My initial thought was that they dispersed the clouds with the shock wave but later on it starts raining so I’m not too sure on that. It does say that the rain was their sweat that flowed so maybe they created the rain clouds? Does keep with Rudra being the tempest, though that is a windy storm rather than rain. Rn all I got is their fight was loud enough to be heard throughout all of India so the decibels should be pretty high.

The argument is one statement of Thor being the strongest.

Thor's statements referring to history doesn't mean much. The statement establish the strength of each god, Thor's statements about his max power are that he can, Thor's statements place him at a 6-B, possibly 5-B level of power (Shattering earth: actual kanji meaning ground, but depending in context could mean earth said by wiki translator and another outside translator),while Shiva's own Statements place his directly at a easily 5-B level. Through these statements along a casual Shiva is greatly superior to max Thor. This is one of the issues of Thor being the strongest, his own established max level is weaker than Shiva, Shiva being stated to destroy and create worlds on a whim and holds the title of destroy of worlds. To repeat, established levels of power of Thor's max strength contradict him being the strongest, when other characters have higher levels of strength casually. It was Lu Bu who broke the divine garments, and that was due to his durability negating to shields and guards which his Valkyrie grants him.

There is a difference between the statement of Zeus being omnipotent and the gods being omniscient. The statement about Zeus being omnipotent is different, the context between them is different. These statements are direct info about the gods. While each character has their own info, Zeus’ describe him as the omnipotent god and servers as their leader because of it. This is statement of him being the omnipotent god is on the same page among other gods, such as Thor, who is only best described as Nordics strongest. Him getting his faced kick in by Adam doesn’t debunk him being the stronger than the others. Also Odin and Thor are different, Odin is the serious enforcer type, while Zeus isn't, this is seen when Zeus tells buddha to stop messing around and both of them just start laughing hysterically. Zeus is a character is more playful and calm, while Odin is the stoic serious enforce type. Odin being more serious doesn't make him stronger.

I am not ignoring the context behind the statements, I'm not even arguing about their context. Its how is present, which is clearly just a hype page. The page presents the information the same way hype statements do in Naruto guidebooks, this is seen the information presented and how stimulus words are highlighted in another color. Furthered by at the end it says "The tale of Lu Bu is yet to be told, and begins on the next page!!" furthering the nothing of it just being a hype page to invest and sell the manga, solidifying it as a means to only hype the manga up.

Again to sum it up:
1. The established feats of Thor worse than other gods, such as Shiva, while Thor's best feat as awakened is arguably Planet level (Shatter earth) depending on context, Shiva can casually destroy and create worlds on a whim and is a know destroy of worlds.

2. The series itself has contradicted this statement as within Ragnarok, Thor is only regarded as North's strongest and North's strongest war god, while Zeus is considered to be omnipotent among the gods, thus serving as their leader.

3. The page itself is nothing more than a hype page. The page uses colorful lettering and very specific phrases to engage the reader before the story, while also directly promoting the series at bottom of the page, furthering the notion of it just being hype. The page also uses Lu Bu's worst feat as a means of power portrayal, which makes the page iffy when claiming who is the strongest.

 

[PowerToScale]

The time punch can’t be a speed thing if you are scaling Adamas to it since everyone could see Adam vs Adamas wailing on each other while the time punch wasn’t seen by anyone besides Adam and Zeus.

Not true. Characters from the beginning have been seeing moves that they shouldn't be seeing. This is all just Plot induced stupidity for characters to have a reaction or add more information to something. A common trope in anime and fiction. To further it being PIS is that old man Zeus blitzs Ares before he can perceive him but Ares was able to see Adamas which is faster.

Also Time punch manipulates time to stop time and perform a punch as 1e-20 of a second at the bare minimum, hence why everything goes black everyone freezes in place, such as the people and the birds. Adamas doesn't manipulate time, his punches are just pure punches, which still doesn't make it any slower, especially when Adamas feat wise is faster than anything that Zeus performed before.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

You misconstrued my argument. You are dismissing an uncontradicted “hype” statement from an omniscient narrator for one character but immediately turn around and use a completely unfounded hype statement from a less credible source for another. Said source even gives a statement for one of my points (Lu Bu is the strongest human in history). Not only are you using double standards, you then proceed to compare said unfounded hype statement to an actual feat. You only mention hype as feats for other characters when they don’t have any feats close to Thor’s because your point falls apart the moment it’s placed under any scrutiny.

Being the strongest Nordic God doesn’t exempt you from being the strongest god. Zeus’ statement from that same page is contradicted multiple times by feats, statements and scaling independent of the Thor statement.

This point is one of the prime examples of ignoring context. It’s specifically saying he was strong even in his childhood.

How is people seeing these things PIS when it’s all they do in the entire series? Ares getting “blitzed” was Zeus randomly appearing while he was in the middle of a fight. People don’t have perfect awareness of their surrounding when they are focused on their opponent that just butchered their army and is about to body them.

I brought up the Adamas not scaling because the person I responded to said that Adamas scaled to the Time Punch in speed. Whenever speed gets brought up, it stays consistent like with Poseidon becoming afterimages early on and nobody could see him even later on.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I can't even, the Fist That Surpassed Time is literally stated to control time and Zeus already has time manipulation listed on his profile because of it, but somehow I manifactured this?

I’m just gonna leave this here

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Which is always I have always disagree on

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Since this seems to be an odd scenario with multiple options that nobody can agree on and all have potentially supporting evidence, could we not round it out to "at least MFTL+, possibly Infinite speed or Time Stop with the Fist That Surpassed Time"?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, if we do not receive any further staff input, we might need to use Creaturemaster97's suggestion.

 

[Ionliosite]

I don't see how the feat could be MTLF+ given the explanation Ultima gave, so it is either Infinite or Time Stop. I personally lean towards Time Stop.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

I'm leaning further towards Infinite but that's just the feeling I get. Either seems equally likely to me. I feel like the black color wave is just a cosmetic choice and exerting control over time are also hype statements (especially since it's not even clear, he says "it has been said to exert control over all of time", not that it does), though that's still just my opinion and I can't really argue that it's any more or less substantial than the other side.

 

[Overlord775]

it can't be a hype statement since it cames from the omniescient narrator tho

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Ah my mistake, I thought it comes from Heimdall. It still doesn't clarify its accuracy, just that it's said to do so.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Ah my mistake, I thought it comes from Heimdall. It still doesn't clarify its accuracy, just that it's said to do so.

Said power/technique comes from his father Chronos(the personfaction of time itself)

So it seems to be time stop instead of infinte speed

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Again, I'm equally open to it being either one, I'm just more inclined to say Infinite. We could also argue that Chronos would be able to give himself Infinite speed just as easily as we could argue that it means Time Stop.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Honestly Chronos's nature seems like a better argument for time stop than anything else so far.

 

[Antvasima]

I don't see how the feat could be MTLF+ given the explanation Ultima gave, so it is either Infinite or Time Stop. I personally lean towards Time Stop.

Okay. I suppose that is considerably more likely then.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

To clarify, I'm not saying Chronos's nature has sold me as evidence of time stop, just that it's the closest thing we actually have to evidence. I'm still neutral on the whole issue.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

To clarify, I'm not saying Chronos's nature has sold me as evidence of time stop, just that it's the closest thing we actually have to evidence. I'm still neutral on the whole issue.

Ok

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

For me I still stand on my opinion that it is infinite speed

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

I agree with the AP,
- "Shattering Earth", if Earth is not "地球" (Chikyū) then it cannot be planet level, "大地" (Daichi) possibly refers to the surface of the earth
-The same with Zeus, I do not think that anything said justifies giving it universe level
As for speed, I can't believe that the discussion about "The Fist That Surpassed Time" is long, everything shown and said about that clearly shows that the attack involves the manipulation of time because there are only 2 options
1) the attack consists in slowing down time to such an absurd degree that time seems to stop
2) the attack in question is simply Time Stop, only it is a Time Stop that takes time to become effective

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

3) he actually moves that fast

 

[InfiniteDay]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:LIFE_OF_KING/Shuumatsu_no_Valkyrie:_Round_5_feats Guys this was posted a while ago let's not ignore this 6-B feat that scales to everyone.

 

[Antvasima]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:LIFE_OF_KING/Shuumatsu_no_Valkyrie:_Round_5_feats Guys this was posted a while ago let's not ignore this 6-B feat that scales to everyone.

@Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Mr._Bambu @Therefir @Ugarik @DMUA @Damage3245 @KGiffoni @Dargoo_Faust @TheRustyOne @DemonGodMitchAubin @Jasonsith @Wokistan

Would any of you be willing to evaluate this please?

 

[Damage3245]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:LIFE_OF_KING/Shuumatsu_no_Valkyrie:_Round_5_feats Guys this was posted a while ago let's not ignore this 6-B feat that scales to everyone.

What is there that even suggests it is an AP feat?

 

[Tyri456]

It is not time stop, the whole context of the fight is him accelarating his speed continuosly, until he reach a time frame of 0.

If it was time stop, he would have just time stopped time on the spot, and since time stop is never mentioned is infinite speed. Nothing imply it is a time stop but a constant speed increase until he reached a timeframe of 0.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

It is not time stop, the whole context of the fight is him accelarating his speed continuosly, until he reach a time frame of 0.

If it was time stop, he would have just time stopped time on the spot, and since time stop is never mentioned is infinite speed. Nothing imply it is a time stop but a constant speed increase until he reached a timeframe of 0.

The context of the whole fight is not accelerating continuously until reachinh a time frame of 0, as should be obvious by the fact that after the Fist That Surpassed Time failed and Zeus went into his Adamas Form, his attack were obviously "slower", for the spectators were able to see them, but yet they were still harder for Adam to dodge.

The fact that it's never explicedly stated to be time stop is not an argument, because it's never stated to be infinite speed either, but at least it's heavily implied to be time manipulation while it being infinite speed would be contradicted by the part of the fight where Zeus was in his Adamas form.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. It seems like we should classify it as time stop then.

 

[Tyri456]

Yeah it is not stated to be time stop, therefore is potrayed to be speed since we are talking about that, that is why infinite is still better option than time stop based solely on that, that is the point, so saying randomly "infinite speed is never stated" is not a counter argument whatsoever.

And yes that was the context of the fight, him being able to accelerate his speed, as you can see

here
here
here
and here which is actually him accelerating until reaching a time frame of zero.

The attacks wer not harder to dodge, Adam was approching his limits. That's obvious.

 

[Tyri456]

Okay. It seems like we should classify it as time stop then.

Why, Ultima agree with it being infinite speed, what in the world are the reasons to treat it as a time stop when it is not.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

Why, Ultima agree with it being infinite speed, what in the world are the reasons to treat it as a time stop when it is not.

Ultima agreed that moving a finite distance in 0 secs is infinite speed, not that this is infinite speed instead of time stop.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

Yeah it is not stated to be time stop, therefore is potrayed to be speed since we are talking about that, that is why infinite is still better option than time stop based solely on that, that is the point, so saying randomly "infinite speed is never stated" is not a counter argument whatsoever.

And yes that was the context of the fight, him being able to accelerate his speed, as you can see

here
here
here
and here which is actually him accelerating until reaching a time frame of zero.

Rather than speed, the numbers are the time frame the attacks occur in. A move from the personification of time, described to exert control over time, called a punch beyond time, inverts the colors of everything which is a common way to show time has stopped, the time frame is infinitely recurring 0s meaning time isn’t progressing, Eyes of the Lord copies any techniques they see including those of the gods, this even extends to things like physiology so it clearly isn’t just limited to martial art techniques etc.

The fact that we see Adam is subject to the same color inversion like everything else, he clearly isn’t as fast as Zeus using the punch of it actually is speed but Adam then proceeds to counter before Zeus reaches him despite not scaling in speed. You can’t even argue Adam copies stats since that isn’t what his hax is.