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StorytellingDemonKing

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He doesn't scale from Renren, he scales down from Raikiri.
Which then creates an inconsistency in speed. To me, even Raikiri seems like a massive outlier if base Ikki could only pin down Renren within a certain distance while damaging his arm. Is there a genuine calc that puts Raikiri in MHS+?
 
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Which then creates an inconsistency in speed. To me, even Raikiri seems like a massive outlier if base Ikki could only pin down Renren within a certain distance while damaging his arm. Is there a genuine calc that puts Raikiri in MHS+?
Raikiri is by statement lightning speed, and given Touka's power it makes sense for it to be. No calc needed.

And nothing really points towards ikki not having gotten faster ever since the fight with Renren. Not to mention that:
1. We take the best showing of speed of characters, not cherry picking random points.
2. Raikiri is way more consistent than Renren's speed.

And when you consider that these same characters jump to above SoL speeds not far from that fight it makes Ittou Shura ikki = raikiri just that much more believable.
 

StorytellingDemonKing

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Raikiri is by statement lightning speed, and given Touka's power it makes sense for it to be. No calc needed.
And yet if it's not consistent there is no reason to use it. There are lightning characters that have been required a calc in the past even though they are more consistently portrayed as lightning fast and faster than Raikiri.
And nothing really points towards ikki not having gotten faster ever since the fight with Renren.
Yeah, same can be applied vice versa.
Not to mention that:
1. We take the best showing of speed of characters, not cherry picking random points.
No, we take consistency. If you want to call it cherry picking then sure, whatever helps you sleep at night. But if base Ikki struggles against stated mach 2, Ittou Shura then being dozens of times multiplier putting him in Mach 40, and then being barely slower than Rikiri, then it's not mach 1000+. Simple as that.
2. Raikiri is way more consistent than Renren's speed.
In what way? Just because she is said to be lightning speed with no contrite speed statements unlike Renren and relies on this wiki given speed for average lightning?
And when you consider that these same characters jump to above SoL speeds not far from that fight it makes Ittou Shura ikki = raikiri just that much more believable.
Maybe SoL has different circumstances, idk, haven't read past beginning of vol 5. However if it's wildly inconsistent then someone else knowleadgable should deal with it. Also you say he jumped, yet why isn't Ikki also Mach 2, Up to High Hyper, MHS+ with Ittou Shura?

Anyway, I will go to sleep. Hopefully more staff can give input.
 
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And yet if it's not consistent there is no reason to use it.
Can you point out inconsistencies?

There are lightning characters that have been required a calc in the past even though they are more consistently portrayed as lightning fast and faster than Raikiri.
Statement alone isn't enough, it's the nature of her power being electromagnetic draw as well as her whole power being lightning oriented that gives it believability.

Yeah, same can be applied vice versa.
You do know how outliers work right? If you want to shut down something as outlier you have to prove why it is an outlier, because "outlier" is literally the last resort if there is nothing else to explain a situation we just say "well outlier".

No, we take consistency. But if base Ikki struggles against stated mach 2, Ittou Shura then being dozens of times multiplier putting him in Mach 40, and then being barely slower than Rikiri, then it's not mach 1000+. Simple as that.
Do you have any other case of ikki being shown to be mach 2 though? Cus it's literally just renren and nothing else.

Hell, when fighting sword eater his reaction speed was stated to be 0.1 seconds which is way to slow for renren too. Let's shut down renren as well i guess. Ikki is just above an average human in terms of reaction speed which means his combat speed can't exceed it let alone go on and react to mach 2 movement.

So the same ikki that smoked a mach 2 renren, was slower than kuraudo. I guess mach 2 isn't mach 2 either ey?

Just because she is said to be lightning speed with no contrite speed statements unlike Renren and relies on this wiki given speed for average lightning?
Lightning has a concrete speed though. It's not a specific number as it can vary a bit, but it doesn't mean it doesn't have speed.

Also you say he jumped, yet why isn't Ikki also Mach 2, Up to High Hyper, MHS+ with Ittou Shura?
Cus we take him at peak of arc 1.
 

StorytellingDemonKing

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Can you point out inconsistencies?
Already did.
Statement alone isn't enough, it's the nature of her power being electromagnetic draw as well as her whole power being lightning oriented that gives it believability.
So, electricity Manipulation and just called lightning.
You do know how outliers work right? If you want to shut down something as outlier you have to prove why it is an outlier, because "outlier" is literally the last resort if there is nothing else to explain a situation we just say "well outlier".
Already pointed it out.
Do you have any other case of ikki being shown to be mach 2 though? Cus it's literally just renren and nothing else.
So, that's the only thing Ikki has for statements in terms of speed. Gotcha.
Hell, when fighting sword eater his reaction speed was stated to be 0.1 seconds which is way to slow for renren too. Let's shut down renren as well i guess. Ikki is just above an average human in terms of reaction speed which means his combat speed can't exceed it let alone go on and react to mach 2 movement.
Ok, sure. Not my fault the author wrote an inconsistent mess lmao
So the same ikki that smoked a mach 2 renren, was slower than kuraudo. I guess mach 2 isn't mach 2 either ey?
Wut
Lightning has a concrete speed though. It's not a specific number as it can vary a bit, but it doesn't mean it doesn't have speed.
Not in fiction. Lightning in comics can reach ftl speeds and probably some verse that's slower than natural one, like this. (Though Touka hasn't even demonstrated cloud-to-ground lighting but oh well)
Cus we take him at peak of arc 1.
So, Mach 2 Base, Mach 40 IS, Mach 400 IR.

Anyway, this works as a bump too. Won't derail any further and wait for staff members. 1 still thinks it's fine to yeet the verse and the 2nd one said scans are needed for everything.
 
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Ok, sure. Not my fault the author wrote an inconsistent mess lmao
Part of the reason why we just take the feats and not say "oh well earlier in the show he was shown or said to be this fast". We can explain all of this by saying "well he got faster throughout the series". And there would be nothing to disprove that.

Not in fiction. Lightning in comics can reach ftl speeds and probably some verse that's slower than natural one, like this. (Though Touka hasn't even demonstrated cloud-to-ground lighting but oh well)
Yeah but that is for electricity attacks, what we ask isn't "how fast is that lightning" is "does it fulfill our standards as cloud to ground lightning". If it does it has lightning speed. As for Touka, Raikiri's speed is clearly said to be as fast as cloud to ground lightning. . But we've been over the speeds before.
 
Part of the reason why we just take the feats and not say "oh well earlier in the show he was shown or said to be this fast". We can explain all of this by saying "well he got faster throughout the series". And there would be nothing to disprove that.


Yeah but that is for electricity attacks, what we ask isn't "how fast is that lightning" is "does it fulfill our standards as cloud to ground lightning". If it does it has lightning speed. As for Touka, Raikiri's speed is clearly said to be as fast as cloud to ground lightning. . But we've been over the speeds before.
I just realized that the "Every official battle she's been in with raikiri has had her won" is a plot hole lol. He lost to Moroboshi in the finals of the previous Sword art festival which I'm assuming is a pretty official fight. Guess Riku Misora forgot about that.
 
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I just realized that the "Every official battle she's been in with raikiri has had her won" is a plot hole lol. He lost to Moroboshi in the finals of the previous Sword art festival which I'm assuming is a pretty official fight. Guess Riku Misora forgot about that.
Nah, cus it says "every battle where she has used raikiri". She didn't get a chance to use raikiri against moroboshi.
 
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StorytellingDemonKing

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Part of the reason why we just take the feats and not say "oh well earlier in the show he was shown or said to be this fast". We can explain all of this by saying "well he got faster throughout the series". And there would be nothing to disprove that.
Or we just take Mach 2 and concrete statements instead.
Yeah but that is for electricity attacks, what we ask isn't "how fast is that lightning" is "does it fulfill our standards as cloud to ground lightning". If it does it has lightning speed. As for Touka, Raikiri's speed is clearly said to be as fast as cloud to ground lightning. . But we've been over the speeds before.
Mach 40 lightning in-verse. Some authors might not have a clue how fast it is in reality. So let's just go with concrete statements like Mach 2.
I just realized that the "Every official battle she's been in with raikiri has had her won" is a plot hole lol. He lost to Moroboshi in the finals of the previous Sword art festival which I'm assuming is a pretty official fight. Guess Riku Misora forgot about that.
It's not. Though Firepheonixearl already explained it.
 
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Some authors might not have a clue how fast it is in reality. So let's just go with concrete statements like Mach 2.
Author intent is not something you can argue for or against. If it says cloud to ground lightning you take cloud to gerund lightning. Anyway make a separate crt for the speed if you want to argue against it, dont wanna derail too much here.
 

StorytellingDemonKing

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If the verse stays, sure. Still a staff member agrees with yeeting and another thinks scans are needed. Oh right Mr. Bambu also said scans are needed and if unwilling to add them, the verse can get yeeted. But I guess I will wait for more staff input.
 

AKM sama

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I don't like the idea of deleting an entire verse. It's not difficult to fix if someone wants to spend some time on it. The profiles needs scans and better justifications. Let's try to salvage them by collecting scans and reworking bits and pieces instead of straight up deleting the verse.
 
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I don't like the idea of deleting an entire verse. It's not difficult to fix if someone wants to spend some time on it. The profiles needs scans and better justifications. Let's try to salvage them by collecting scans and reworking bits and pieces instead of straight up deleting the verse.
Ok but the main question is. Ikki Kurogane https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Ikki_Kurogane
has this feats section on his profile
Which covers most if not all of his abilities. So while he doesn't have the justifications as linked pictures in the P&A, the justifications are in the profile. Is that good enough?

Also sup man
 
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