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Hahaaaaaaaaaa...That's a timely reference, right?
So yeah, this is going to mostly be an AP-focused CRT that tackles the Monster Fusing mechanic of the Puzzle and Dragons franchise, the associated lore, and the evidence of consistency to hopefully give some characters who are just upscaling right now an actual AP value.
But first, some unrelated smaller things because I didn't think it was worth it to launch multiple CRTs for them:
1. Accelerated Development
It's a monster collecting series with a level-up system...shocker.
So as you'd expect, in all the games your monsters can gain levels and increase their power through experience points, which can be gained while out on dungeon runs, and the monsters can even level-up mid-run, increasing their power while fighting opponents back to back. Seen Here.
However, this also goes a step further. There are certain locations that reduce the levels of monsters when you enter, forcing you to battle the monsters inside at a disadvantage and regain that power before you leave. Seen here, the player enters with a full power team, but they are reduced to level 1 and need to regain their power via combat
So it seems like a Battle Type Accelerated Development for the monster cast, they can grow in power through battle while the human characters seem to be unable to do the same in both the games and anime. This fact is harder to show because there is a LACK of growth, but the human characters we see in PADX for example need to supplement themselves with Soul Armors made of the monster characters to keep up in monster fights, they themselves don't power up like the monsters do.
2. Mistrain is City Level!!!!!!!!!!
That's clickbait in action. If you cared about PAD you would've fallen for it.But you don't, moving on. It's Environmental Destruction I'm pretty sure, but it should probably be on the page.
"When it appears, even the clearest of skies fill with storm clouds" - PADZ Monster Book
We already talked about it in This CRT, but the Z-City Rangers are a group that fights and researches monsters as their primary goal, so information from their research is probably reliable.
Plus we just straight up see it in Mistrain's attack animation. The sky above Mistrain fills with storm clouds while its releasing its lightning bolt attack. Obviously they're pretty close to the ground in this attack animation, but considering the Rangers have proven reliable, this is likely an artistic choice to make what's going on in the attack more obvious, and the storm clouds in reality do 'fill the sky'
This is probably an environmental destruction rating because I don't think we have enough here to call it a Kinetic Energy feat to translate it into AP. Mistrain obviously does have control of the weather to make this happen to launch this attack, but we're not getting any valuable scaling material out of it. But it's important to be thorough and list everything possible for characters. Since we can't really see the clouds well to size them, but they do cover the entire sky according to the Ranger information, I believe it's a Low 7-B feat at least.
3. Mistrain is Massively Hypersonic+!!!!!!!!
And that's called subverting expectations, because this time I'm completely serious about this rating.
Mistrain and all other 3-Star monsters are currently rated as 'At Least Supersonic' by upscaling from the weaker 2-Star Warzard, who punches faster than sound.
However the second part of Mistrain's Monster Book Entry is: "The thunderbolts that fall when it roars can burn down entire forests" and that attack animation shows exactly that, Mistrain calls down a lightning strike from the clouds it creates.
I believe that both the animation and the process described to us via summoning clouds to fill the skies means these electric strikes are natural lightning being summoned on command. That's obviously an attack speed, but should scale to general reactions for all monsters that scale to Mistrain, as monsters of the same level are capable of avoiding each others elemental attacks in combat.
Because of this, 4-Star Monsters should also be updated to: "At least Massively Hypersonic+", due to upscaling off of 3-Star Monsters, and Verche's own feat of running as fast as Lightning.
Due to the lack of a distance to measure a dodge, this is being thrown out. Mistrain obviously still has a Massively Hypersonic+ attack speed though, that needs updated.
4. Monster Star Levels 6-9
Okay this is what the title is actually talking about. Every Star Level of monster in this franchise has accepted feats on this wiki so far except 6,7, and 9 who all just upscale, and I want to try to fix that with some lore statements and supporting evidence. 8 Stars have a feat, we'll get back to that when we get to consistency.
Quick Refresher of the last AP CRT: In Puzzle and Dragons all monsters have a Star Level that is their "Rarity", however reliable characters have statements that these rarity ratings also translate to characters being comparable in power. Star Levels increase with evolution, which makes naturally stronger characters. And there are numerous supporting battles in the series that show that even a single star-rating difference can make a fight a pretty harsh beatdown (Awoken Zeus VS Flame Deity, Falcon Horus, forcing Ace to use multiple monsters and power ups to overcome Zeus), and that just two star differences can be enough to one-shot multiple characters with a single attack (Awoken Zeus VS Base Hades' "Fight", where Zeus hits Hades once and vaporizes him and his backup with a single attack)
So with all of that, even though we have no calcs for 6 and 7 star monsters, they could upscale off of Idia's star creation feat, and 9 star monsters could upscale from Daphness' (and by extension Eldora) pocket dimension feat.
But that's not good enough for me. I don't want scaling chains, I want raw NUMBERS.
Thankfully, there may be a way to calculate the strength of a Star Level with multipliers and fusion. Monsters normally evolve and grow more powerful via fusion, where various other monsters are sacrificed to the target monster to change them into that next form where they typically become a higher rarity. Of course, something like this is normally an 'unquantifiable stronger' boost, but a character in the Puzzle and Dragons Z Postgame, Ignis, has this to say:
"When two or more dragons fuse together, a certain creature is born that is greater than the simple sum of its parts."
Ignore her calling the monsters in question "Dragons". In Puzzle and Dragons Lore, ALL monsters are actually genetically dragons who have mutated to take different shapes through years of evolution.This is the part where you remember characters like Mikasa, Dante, Micky Mouse, Superman, Goku, and more are all classified as 'Monsters' in this verse, and enjoy that implication. Crossovers are fun.
Ignis is also likely a reliable source of information because:
1. She's just having a casual conversation with you now that you've saved the world. She has no urgency to exaggerate, and no reason or benefit to gain from lying to you.
2. She is a Dragonoid, which outlive humans by multiple lifetimes. She is also Priest for one of the Skydragon Temples, meaning she works in a temple dedicated to one of the elemental gods of the world that hold everything together, and Syrup has explained that temples often have carvings of information, processes, and rituals that have all turned out to be accurate processes. She is both long-lived and literally works in a place full of information that has otherwise only ever been correct.
3. She serves under El Dorado, the Skydragon of Fire. He is one of the Skydragon gods who keeps the balance of the world, he is over 500 million years old, and he can directly communicate with the Prime Dragon Eidos, the higher dragon-god who created the world and sparked life on it. El Dorado is likely ALSO a reliable source of information when it comes to the verse considering he's a long-lived, benevolent god who has higher-level God on speed dial.
With that in mind, I tracked down some situations where monsters evolve into the Star Levels that have no calcs, non-scaling feats, or otherwise accepted numbers. By adding up the known values for the characters involved we can get the baseline value. Because monsters of the same Star Level are generally equals, we can keep applying this process to cover all the ratings that don't have an exact number, and give them an 'At Least' value, because by Ignis' description they should be stronger than the fusion numbers I am about to list here.
So those are all the notable examples of fusions that I could find for what we're talking about here. There are obviously more, and more than have fusions that use varied monsters, but if all fusions are 'greater than the simple sum of their parts' and the results are generally equals, then these values would be the lowest that would logically work.
But do we have supporting evidence for these to be acceptable values? I've alluded to a few things, but generally: yes. (I'm giving episode numbers here, but can't link to them due to forum rules...You might want to GO-GO to some free ANIME site to watch to check what I'm talking about.)
Episode 24: Awoken Zeus (7 Stars) absolutely demolishes Ace's entire team with a single attack, including Leviathan (5 Star), and Tamazo wearing the Awoken Odin Armor (6 Star)
Episode 25: Using teamwork and strategy, Ace's team manages to destroy a single Calamity Immortal Dragon, Cursed Wyrm (7 Star), but are entirely overwhelmed by the arrival of more. Daphness (8 Star) arrives and is able to stomp all 4 of them effortlessly.
Episode 35: Ace has a much longer, drag-out fight with Awoken Zeus (7 Star) with his new upgraded team (2x 5 Stars, 1 6 Star, and multiple others that are somewhat weaker). Ace takes the eventual victory thanks to using Soul Brave to fuse all of their power into one, out strategizing Awoken Zeus's master, and Awoken Zeus' master being revealed to be undisciplined and not having a strategy outside of 'just oneshot' now that Ace has managed to boost his strength so high.
Episode 49: Awoken Zeus (7 Stars) once again shows off his one-shotting by defeating Hades (5 Star) with a single attack alongside a Titan (3 Stars), a Black Knight (3 Stars) and their Masters all at the same time.
I hope I'm making my point, just like in the AP CRT, higher Star Rating monsters very frequently don't just win fights, they stomp them, and it takes fusions and power boosts to even the playing field.
But also as supporting evidence, 8 Star Monsters do have an AP feat, based on Daphness' pocket reality feat. That feat came out to approximately 8.14 Foe (8.1445131*10^44). Compared to the 5 Star Monsters, which is approximately 0.1 Foe, that's a difference of nearly 80x between 5, 6, 7, and 8 Star monsters already. The new proposed fusion value (2.3364072 x 10^45) would be only about 2.8x greater than what they currently scale to. So my numbers fit in with the feat we already have.
Conclusion: AKA The TLDR:
Good lord this took 3 days and it really shouldn't have...
EDIT: Blog For Multipliers
So yeah, this is going to mostly be an AP-focused CRT that tackles the Monster Fusing mechanic of the Puzzle and Dragons franchise, the associated lore, and the evidence of consistency to hopefully give some characters who are just upscaling right now an actual AP value.
But first, some unrelated smaller things because I didn't think it was worth it to launch multiple CRTs for them:
1. Accelerated Development
It's a monster collecting series with a level-up system...shocker.
So as you'd expect, in all the games your monsters can gain levels and increase their power through experience points, which can be gained while out on dungeon runs, and the monsters can even level-up mid-run, increasing their power while fighting opponents back to back. Seen Here.
However, this also goes a step further. There are certain locations that reduce the levels of monsters when you enter, forcing you to battle the monsters inside at a disadvantage and regain that power before you leave. Seen here, the player enters with a full power team, but they are reduced to level 1 and need to regain their power via combat
So it seems like a Battle Type Accelerated Development for the monster cast, they can grow in power through battle while the human characters seem to be unable to do the same in both the games and anime. This fact is harder to show because there is a LACK of growth, but the human characters we see in PADX for example need to supplement themselves with Soul Armors made of the monster characters to keep up in monster fights, they themselves don't power up like the monsters do.
2. Mistrain is City Level!!!!!!!!!!
That's clickbait in action. If you cared about PAD you would've fallen for it.
"When it appears, even the clearest of skies fill with storm clouds" - PADZ Monster Book
We already talked about it in This CRT, but the Z-City Rangers are a group that fights and researches monsters as their primary goal, so information from their research is probably reliable.
Plus we just straight up see it in Mistrain's attack animation. The sky above Mistrain fills with storm clouds while its releasing its lightning bolt attack. Obviously they're pretty close to the ground in this attack animation, but considering the Rangers have proven reliable, this is likely an artistic choice to make what's going on in the attack more obvious, and the storm clouds in reality do 'fill the sky'
This is probably an environmental destruction rating because I don't think we have enough here to call it a Kinetic Energy feat to translate it into AP. Mistrain obviously does have control of the weather to make this happen to launch this attack, but we're not getting any valuable scaling material out of it. But it's important to be thorough and list everything possible for characters. Since we can't really see the clouds well to size them, but they do cover the entire sky according to the Ranger information, I believe it's a Low 7-B feat at least.
And that's called subverting expectations, because this time I'm completely serious about this rating.
Mistrain and all other 3-Star monsters are currently rated as 'At Least Supersonic' by upscaling from the weaker 2-Star Warzard, who punches faster than sound.
However the second part of Mistrain's Monster Book Entry is: "The thunderbolts that fall when it roars can burn down entire forests" and that attack animation shows exactly that, Mistrain calls down a lightning strike from the clouds it creates.
I believe that both the animation and the process described to us via summoning clouds to fill the skies means these electric strikes are natural lightning being summoned on command. That's obviously an attack speed, but should scale to general reactions for all monsters that scale to Mistrain, as monsters of the same level are capable of avoiding each others elemental attacks in combat.
Because of this, 4-Star Monsters should also be updated to: "At least Massively Hypersonic+", due to upscaling off of 3-Star Monsters, and Verche's own feat of running as fast as Lightning.
Due to the lack of a distance to measure a dodge, this is being thrown out. Mistrain obviously still has a Massively Hypersonic+ attack speed though, that needs updated.
4. Monster Star Levels 6-9
Okay this is what the title is actually talking about. Every Star Level of monster in this franchise has accepted feats on this wiki so far except 6,7, and 9 who all just upscale, and I want to try to fix that with some lore statements and supporting evidence. 8 Stars have a feat, we'll get back to that when we get to consistency.
Quick Refresher of the last AP CRT: In Puzzle and Dragons all monsters have a Star Level that is their "Rarity", however reliable characters have statements that these rarity ratings also translate to characters being comparable in power. Star Levels increase with evolution, which makes naturally stronger characters. And there are numerous supporting battles in the series that show that even a single star-rating difference can make a fight a pretty harsh beatdown (Awoken Zeus VS Flame Deity, Falcon Horus, forcing Ace to use multiple monsters and power ups to overcome Zeus), and that just two star differences can be enough to one-shot multiple characters with a single attack (Awoken Zeus VS Base Hades' "Fight", where Zeus hits Hades once and vaporizes him and his backup with a single attack)
So with all of that, even though we have no calcs for 6 and 7 star monsters, they could upscale off of Idia's star creation feat, and 9 star monsters could upscale from Daphness' (and by extension Eldora) pocket dimension feat.
But that's not good enough for me. I don't want scaling chains, I want raw NUMBERS.
Thankfully, there may be a way to calculate the strength of a Star Level with multipliers and fusion. Monsters normally evolve and grow more powerful via fusion, where various other monsters are sacrificed to the target monster to change them into that next form where they typically become a higher rarity. Of course, something like this is normally an 'unquantifiable stronger' boost, but a character in the Puzzle and Dragons Z Postgame, Ignis, has this to say:
"When two or more dragons fuse together, a certain creature is born that is greater than the simple sum of its parts."
Ignore her calling the monsters in question "Dragons". In Puzzle and Dragons Lore, ALL monsters are actually genetically dragons who have mutated to take different shapes through years of evolution.
Ignis is also likely a reliable source of information because:
1. She's just having a casual conversation with you now that you've saved the world. She has no urgency to exaggerate, and no reason or benefit to gain from lying to you.
2. She is a Dragonoid, which outlive humans by multiple lifetimes. She is also Priest for one of the Skydragon Temples, meaning she works in a temple dedicated to one of the elemental gods of the world that hold everything together, and Syrup has explained that temples often have carvings of information, processes, and rituals that have all turned out to be accurate processes. She is both long-lived and literally works in a place full of information that has otherwise only ever been correct.
3. She serves under El Dorado, the Skydragon of Fire. He is one of the Skydragon gods who keeps the balance of the world, he is over 500 million years old, and he can directly communicate with the Prime Dragon Eidos, the higher dragon-god who created the world and sparked life on it. El Dorado is likely ALSO a reliable source of information when it comes to the verse considering he's a long-lived, benevolent god who has higher-level God on speed dial.
With that in mind, I tracked down some situations where monsters evolve into the Star Levels that have no calcs, non-scaling feats, or otherwise accepted numbers. By adding up the known values for the characters involved we can get the baseline value. Because monsters of the same Star Level are generally equals, we can keep applying this process to cover all the ratings that don't have an exact number, and give them an 'At Least' value, because by Ignis' description they should be stronger than the fusion numbers I am about to list here.
- Vibrant Butterfly Dragon, Swallowtail (6 Star Monster) = Dark Insect Dragon, Mutecocoon, Small Fire Gem, Small Water Gem, Small Wood Gem, Small Light Gem, and Small Dark Gem (Note: The 'Gems' are gained by converting various low-level boss monsters like Flame Insect Dragon, Flammesickle or Light Insect Dragon, Pulseneedle, which are 5-Star Monsters) = 6x 5 Star Monsters = 6 x 1.08167 x 10^43 J (Idia's Star Creation Feat) = 6.49002 x 10^43 High 4-C
- 5 Mechdragon Fusion, God Canopus (7 Star Monster) = Wind Mechdragon, Canopus, Fire Mechdragon, Betelgeuse, Ice Mechdragon, Aldebaran, Noble Mechdragon, Regulus, Annihilate Mechdragon, Hadar, and Keeper of Gold = 6x 6 Star Monsters = 6 x 6.49002 x 10^43 (6 Star Fusion Value) = 3.894012 x 10^44 High 4-C
- 5 Mechdragon Combo, Demon Hadar (7 Star Monster) = Annihilate Mechdragon, Hadar, Fire Mechdragon, Betelgeuse, Ice Mechdragon, Aldebaran, Fusion of Wind Mechdragon, Canopus, Noble Mechdragon, Regulus, and Keeper of Gold = 6x 6 Star Monsters = 6 x 6.49002 x 10^43 (6 Star Fusion Value) = 3.894012 x 10^44 High 4-C
- Ultimate Gunma (7 Star Monster) = Super Gunma, Super Gunma, Super Gunma, Super Gunma, Super Gunma, and Super Gunma (I'm not joking) = 6x 6 Star Monsters = 6 x 6.49002 x 10^43 (6 Star Fusion Value) = 3.894012 x 10^44 High 4-C
- Light Guiding Star Machine, Orpharion (8 Star Monster) = Heaven Winged Machine, Seraphis, Machine Star's Memory, Windsor, Machine Star's Right Hand, Aquor, Machine Star's Left Hand, Frahje, Machine Star's Right Leg, Trigo, Machine Star's Left Leg, Dukdey = 6x 7 Star Monsters = 6 x 3.894012 x 10^44 (7 Star Fusion Value) = 2.3364072 x 10^45 4-B
- Dark Star Crusher Machine, Despharion (8 Star Monster) = Dark Winged Machine, Demonius, Machine Star's Memory, Windsor, Machine Star's Right Hand, Aquor, Machine Star's Left Hand, Frahje, Machine Star's Right Leg, Trigo, Machine Star's Left Leg, Dukdey = 6x 7 Star Monsters = 6 x 3.894012 x 10^44 (7 Star Fusion Value) = 2.3364072 x 10^45 4-B
- Devil Star Divine Queen, Hera-Nyx (9 Star Monster) = Hera-Nyx, Divine Queen Hera, Gleaming Queen, Hera-Sowilo, Awoken Dancing Queen Hera-Ur, Permafrost Queen, Hera-Is, Colorful Queen, Hera-Beorc = 6x 8 Star Monsters = 6 x 2.3364072 x 10^45 = 1.4018443 x 10^46 4-B
- Stellar Dragon of the 6 Skies, Hexazeon (10 Star Monster) = Hexazeon, Unleashed Knight Dragon King, Nordis, Yellow Augite, Magatama of Yonder, Purple Augite, Mirror of Eternal Darkness, Green Augite, Holy Sword of Jade, Diamond Dragon Fruit = 1x 9 Star Monster, 2x 8 Star Monsters, 3x 6 Star Monsters = 1.4018443 x 10^46 (9 Star Fusion Value) + (2 x 2.3364072 x 10^45) (8 Star Fusion Value) + (3 x 6.49002 x 10^43) (6 Star Fusion Value) = 1.8885958 x 10^46 4-B
So those are all the notable examples of fusions that I could find for what we're talking about here. There are obviously more, and more than have fusions that use varied monsters, but if all fusions are 'greater than the simple sum of their parts' and the results are generally equals, then these values would be the lowest that would logically work.
But do we have supporting evidence for these to be acceptable values? I've alluded to a few things, but generally: yes. (I'm giving episode numbers here, but can't link to them due to forum rules...You might want to GO-GO to some free ANIME site to watch to check what I'm talking about.)
Episode 24: Awoken Zeus (7 Stars) absolutely demolishes Ace's entire team with a single attack, including Leviathan (5 Star), and Tamazo wearing the Awoken Odin Armor (6 Star)
Episode 25: Using teamwork and strategy, Ace's team manages to destroy a single Calamity Immortal Dragon, Cursed Wyrm (7 Star), but are entirely overwhelmed by the arrival of more. Daphness (8 Star) arrives and is able to stomp all 4 of them effortlessly.
Episode 35: Ace has a much longer, drag-out fight with Awoken Zeus (7 Star) with his new upgraded team (2x 5 Stars, 1 6 Star, and multiple others that are somewhat weaker). Ace takes the eventual victory thanks to using Soul Brave to fuse all of their power into one, out strategizing Awoken Zeus's master, and Awoken Zeus' master being revealed to be undisciplined and not having a strategy outside of 'just oneshot' now that Ace has managed to boost his strength so high.
Episode 49: Awoken Zeus (7 Stars) once again shows off his one-shotting by defeating Hades (5 Star) with a single attack alongside a Titan (3 Stars), a Black Knight (3 Stars) and their Masters all at the same time.
I hope I'm making my point, just like in the AP CRT, higher Star Rating monsters very frequently don't just win fights, they stomp them, and it takes fusions and power boosts to even the playing field.
But also as supporting evidence, 8 Star Monsters do have an AP feat, based on Daphness' pocket reality feat. That feat came out to approximately 8.14 Foe (8.1445131*10^44). Compared to the 5 Star Monsters, which is approximately 0.1 Foe, that's a difference of nearly 80x between 5, 6, 7, and 8 Star monsters already. The new proposed fusion value (2.3364072 x 10^45) would be only about 2.8x greater than what they currently scale to. So my numbers fit in with the feat we already have.
Conclusion: AKA The TLDR:
- All Monsters should have Battle-Type Accelerated Development
- Mistrain should gain Low 7-B via Environmental Destruction
All 3 Star Monsters should be upgraded to Massively Hypersonic+, and 4 Star Monsters should be updated to "At least Massively Hypersonic+"Mistrain's Attack Speed should be upgraded to Massively Hypersonic+- 6 Star Monsters should remain High 4-C, but now scaled to 6.49002 x 10^43 J
- 7 Star Monsters should remain High 4-C, but now scaled to 3.894012 x 10^44 J
8 Star Monsters should be upgraded to 4-B, now scaled to 2.3364072 x 10^45 J8 Star Monsters should be upgraded to "At least High 4-C (Scaling to Eldora and Daphness), Likely 4-B (scaled to 2.3364072 x 10^45 J)"9 Star Monsters should be upgraded to 4-B, now scaled to 1.4018443 x 10^46 J9 Star Monsters should be upgraded to "At least High 4-C (Upscaling from Eldora and Daphness), Likely 4-B, (scaled to 1.4018443 x 10^46 J)"10 Star Monsters should be upgrade to "At least 4-B, possibly 4-A", and their 4-B now be scaled to 1.8885958 x 10^46 J10 Star Monsters should be upgrade to "At least High 4-C (Upscaling from 9 Star Monsters), Likely 4-B (scaled to 1.8885958 x 10^46 J), possibly 4-A (Scaling to Myr)"
EDIT: Blog For Multipliers
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