Project for updating the Standard Profile Format

[Kepekley23]

NOTE: STAFF-ONLY

Introductio
A while back, we held a thread about changing this wiki's standards for creating profiles, due to extremely long and unreadable Power & Abilities sections which could be handled much more efficiently, and the thread was concluded but nothing ever came out of it, so I'm making this thread to organize a project for both:

• 1. Updating the Standard Format for Character Profiles with the appropriate instructions, and with the best wording to get the point across to everyone.

• 2. Updating the profiles which suffer from the aforementioned issues.

Proposed Solutions

1
I made my own post with my own suggestions for solving these issues, which got accepted by the majority, which can be read here, but the summary is:

• 1. Encourage users to make blog or sandbox drafts of their profiles before actually publishing them. This way, they can actually gradually perfect the profile itself, making the staff clean-up work minimal - this solution would actually drastically reduce the current workload as well. They could also request evaluations of their drafts from time-to-time and ask for tips.

• 2. Encourage users who are making extremely lengthy profiles with lots of abilities, and characters with lots and lots of abilties only, to use tabbers. This should be merged with the above suggestion about the blog drafts, since the misuse of tabs would increase the workload if not handled appropriately.

• 3. Encourage users to cut down the bulk in lenghty profiles and try to keep explanations in the Power & Abilities section more short and to the point. In that case, larger explanations would be available in the "Notable Techniques" section.

2
DontTalkDT made his own large post which was also accepted by a good number of staff members and users. Cutting the suggestions which were similar to mine, some of his unique suggestions on how to handle the issue were:

• Not to sacrifice any details for the reading convenience - ie, to try and get the details across the most efficient manner, as opposed to just aiming for the shortest possible explanation while sacrificing important points. In this case, if the user doesn't manage to come up with a short explanation, a longer one is preferrable.

• The usage of "all prior/all former abilities" for characters who don't lose any of their former abilities when they transform and thus go to a different key.

Wording
The above mostly deals with the profiles themselves. For the Standard Format for Character Profiles page, as I mentioned before, we would need to add these instructions under the "Additional informatio" section, in a way that gets the point across to new users aiming to create new pages, so we would need to explain things such as how to use tabbers and etc.

Not only that, we would also need to update the Editing Rules page to reflect the more essential standards in here. I'm open to suggestions on how to exactly word the edits.

 

[Antvasima]

I obviously support updating the Standard Format for Character Profiles page, but don't think that this is a good time for a massive wiki revision project. Couldn't our members change relevant profiles to the new format gradually instead?

 

[VersusJunkie54]

This makes a lot of sense. Lengthy profiles like Madara Uchiha are nearly unreadable due to the vast amount of abilities they have listed.

Another thing that should be brought up. I really think that the "Keys" section needs to be more towards the top of the page so the profile is easier to follow.

Edit: Got Ninja'd by staff only.

 

[Andytrenom]

What about my suggestion for the resistances?

...No really though. What about it?

 

[Kepekley23]

@Ant

Could be.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I'm glad my suggestion is being taken to heart and applied. I obviously support this.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Should my suggestions about collapsing the feats section and, if necessary, organizing the Notable A/T-section via subsections also be included? I use those on some profiles already (examples: feats, sections) and I think it is the best solution for them.

This makes a lot of sense. Lengthy profiles like Madara Uchiha are nearly unreadable due to the vast amount of abilities they have listed.

Amount is one thing, but the fact that basically every one of his abilities has 1 or 2 sentences of explanation in the p&a section is even worse for the readability in my opinion. A lot of that should just be in the Notable A/T-section (or feats section). It's a good example how even individually short explanations can harm the readability, if there are too many of it.

 

[Dark649]

This is fine.

 

[Kepekley23]

Collapsing the feats section is definitely a good suggestion as well. Not sure about subsections for the Notable Abilities, I believe just one section with dots for each ability works fine.

• Like

• this

 

[DontTalkDT]

It depends on how many abilities we are talking about. For most profiles it is not needed, but on profiles like Master it makes it much easier to find the abilities you are searching for, since there are just so many of them.

Edit: Aside from that subsections should also be used to separate the Notable A/T sections of different keys, in my opinion.

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that collapsing bloated feats sections seems like a good idea.

Does the initial example header image need to be updated as well? We already have a more minor revision for the "Equipment" section that also needs to be included in that case (An "Optional Equipment" part).

 

[Antvasima]

I am also uncertain if the notable attacks/techniques section needs to be updated as well. Perhaps it is best to not do too drastic experimental changes all at once.

 

[Crzer07]

Hmm... if it gets too long I wonder if the Standard Equipment, Intelligence, Weaknesses and Notable A/T section can have their own separate heading, as they aren't "stats" that contain standard one or two words but become paragraph essays and a bunch of shit. Plus its more organize and easier to navigate through the contents thingy, of course only if it becomes long.

 

[Andytrenom]

Can my suggestion about including Resistances in parenthesis also be added? It did have a fair amount of support behind it in the thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Better organisation for resistances, and other sub-section abilities, might be a good idea as well. I have had some problems with that myself recently: Superman (Post-Crisis)

 

[Sera_EX]

Unfortunately I can't give a valid opinion here. The tabber suggestion looks bad on mobile, it just makes it look like separate unorganized paragraphs without even telling you the name of the tab. So I have no idea what abilities belong to some keys on certain pages because I'm always on mobile, but that's just a personal gripe I suppose.

 

[Andytrenom]

Yes. Since a normal person would just open up deskstop mode

That might be a legitimate issue tho it wouldn't matter much to me personally.

 

[Sera_EX]

Hmm... if it gets too long I wonder if the Standard Equipment, Intelligence, Weaknesses and Notable A/T section can have their own separate heading, as they aren't "stats" that contain standard one or two words but become paragraph essays and a bunch of shit. Plus its more organize and easier to navigate through the contents thingy, of course only if it becomes long.

We describe intelligence in a very poor way, I'm afraid. Some intelligence descriptions are more like personality descriptions than a general outlook of said character's actual intelligence or combat skills. Fortunately, most characters don't have long intelligence explanations.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Czer Considering how much trouble I have even writing a few sentences of intelligence and weaknesses I don't think they should require to be entire sections on their own.

Notable Attack might work well in that regard tho.

 

[Sera_EX]

Notable attacks is technically already its own section, granted on FC/OC it is it's own header.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. That could be a serious problem. According to our Quantcast statistics, 65.1% of our visitors use a mobile phone or tablet while visiting the wiki.

 

[Crzer07]

Notable Attack might work well in that regard tho.

Equipment and Notable Attacks are two that often gets long.

Notable attacks is technically already its own section, granted on FC/OC it is it's own header.

I mean if it appears in the table of contents that is

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with using tabbers for overly length Powers and Abilities section. Not only is the giant block of text barely readable at all; people have trouble understanding the difference between versatility and hax among other things. And to be honest, sometimes characters who have giant walls of text actually get downplayed.

Example is nearly every Vs Thread involving a certain HST verse; people using Invisibility or Intangibility as the highlighted argument against a character with Non-Physical Interaction. Or people using Precognition, or Fate Manipulation against a character with Type 2, or even type 4 Acausality. But said user does so because too lazy to read profile, and/or because quantity over quality of favorite character rather than actual index. But separating those lengthy powers and abilities into tabbers is still a good idea regardless.

 

[Antvasima]

What should we do about the problems with mobile layout, given that most of our visitors seem to use it?

 

[Promestein]

Looks good for me.

 

[Kepekley23]

@DarkDragonMedeus

We have already discussed and accepted the usage of tabbers in the old thread. This one is for discussing new potential additions and applying the old ones.

 

[Kepekley23]

> The tabber suggestion looks bad on mobile

About just everything in the pages looks abysmal on mobile. Not just tabbers. This is an extremely common complaint as far as FANDOM in general is concerned.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Never mind then.

 

[Sera_EX]

> The tabber suggestion looks bad on mobile

About just everything in the pages looks abysmal on mobile. Not just tabbers. This is an extremely common complaint as far as FANDOM in general is concerned.

Fair enough.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

> The tabber suggestion looks bad on mobile

About just everything in the pages looks abysmal on mobile. Not just tabbers. This is an extremely common complaint as far as FANDOM in general is concerned.

I'm primarily a mobile user. I can confirm this.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yeah I wouldn't concern myself with it either. The simple solution is to use the wiki on desktop mode on Mobile. It's what I always do.

 

[Sera_EX]

That's not an option for everyone, though. I, can easily just use my iPad when I'm at home, which iPads display the desktop site even while on "mobile mode" (have no idea why it even differentiates them then but...myeh). Not everyone may have that option.

I'm not saying to mind this at all, just throwing that out there. We should just proceed with the project.

 

[UmbraSnivy]

Could we add a section for canonical wins and losses?

 

[Antvasima]

Do we need to update the initial example image as well, and if so, is anybody willing to handle it?

 

[Sera_EX]

Could we add a section for canonical wins and losses?

Unfortunately that's unnecessary and would take way too long to implement, even if done gradually over time. Canonical victories can be listed under their Feats though.

 

[Skalt711]

Do we need to update the initial example image as well, and if so, is anybody willing to handle it?

Hé, I've been specifically waiting for this moment because I knew that this revision will appear. I'll handle it 'cause I've recently fixed my PC.

 

[Wokistan]

We have the mostly done new image, so if we need to do that we should figure out everything that needs to be changed now so we don't run into something similar to what happened with me and editing the SE image.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Sera EX. I think that the tabbers for the powers and abilities sections, along with the collapsing feats sections, and the optional standard equipment part, are likely enough to apply for the moment.

@Skalt711 & Wokistan

Thank you for the help.

 

[Antvasima]

Agnaa gave the Medaka Kurokami page as an example of separation of notable attacks/techniques sections, so that addition should probably be fine as well:

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2744135

 

[Kepekley23]

I still think we should simply start a project to edit the pages right away, even if it isn't a massive project with tens of teams at once. Otherwise people won't want to update them and this will likely be forgotten.