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Prime Soul King Profile Additions

TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
please share the statement if you have it.
Here u go.

"The world did not always have its current form. Without a boundary separating life and death; within this chaotic world.... at first, there stood the original guardian; between Hollow and Man. Quincy, Shinigami, Fullbringer... An existence who could be called the progenitor of all three.."

Laughing heartily, Tokinada went on,

"It was a Quincy as well as a Shinigami; also a human. A symbol of hope governing the chaotic world with innumerable abilities like that of Fullbringers."
 
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M11UTD said:
Actually it is. Also SK was stated to be omnipotent and omniscient, why wouldn't he be able to do something that an inferior being with similar powers to his but on a smaller scale can?
.....I really hope this argument is not serious.
 
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Damage3245 said:
Yhwach spontaneously granting himself Schrifts makes no sense.

Why would he need to wait for a Sternritter to die before taking back the Schrift? Why would he not be able to give himself and the Sternritters both the same Schrifts at the same time?
I dont think this even qualifies as an objection. Incredulity is well warranted here but why would Yhwach bother with abilities lesser than his own?

By waiting for them to die, though, they cultivate their own powers and he gains all their power in addition to the granted ability. So the longer he waits the more power he gets in return. Its like a long term loan; he has the money, theyre just paying him interest on it.
 
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Also @Warren

Read the scans in the argument so far. Yhwach himself states The Almighty is how he shares and takes power. Its not an assumption or anything its something the user of the ability himself tells us directly
 
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Damage3245 said:
Yhwach spontaneously granting himself Schrifts makes no sense.

Why would he need to wait for a Sternritter to die before taking back the Schrift? Why would he not be able to give himself and the Sternritters both the same Schrifts at the same time?
That's simply how his power bestowal works. When a Sternritter with a Schrift dies, their schrift goes back to him. If he's grafted people with pieces of his soul without giving them schrifts, he'll simply attain their raw strength. Jugram can also share his soul, but not to the point of giving people Schrifts.
 
The Voice 1
Yhwach Has No Voice

The Voice 2
Yhwach Has A Voice

People should know that Yhwach did give himself an ability to give himself his voice back. There's a reason this is worded odd and "Voice" is bolded. In the Japanese this is written as so:
þºüÒü»þºüÒü½... ...ÒÇîÕú░ÒÇìÒéÆõ©ÄÒüêÒéï!!!

"Voice" is bracketed, something Kubo does to highlight abilities in all of Bleach. It doesn't happen for any other reason.

Yhwach is saying pretty much: "To me myself I give ÒÇîVoiceÒÇì!!!"

Schrift are written in this fashion as well in the arc.
 
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I believe Yhwach did used some of the Quincy Schrifts during the manga but the reason no one think of it is because it was never stated directly. For example Ichigo launches a Getsuga without saying the name. Can people know the difference between a Getsuga and spiritual energy?

It's gonna be a long list. I don't have that time but I'll use some quick example to get my point across. (For this to work you will need to believe that all powers added to his profile where added wrongly. I am talking hypothetically of course.)

List: (From the top of my head, and remember that these Ritter were already dead and Yhwach had absorbed their powers.)

Q- Question- Yhwach was questioning Ichigo when they arrived at the Soul Palace this ability makes your opponent question their powers and resolve and that's how Ichigo was feeling in Yhwach's presence.

R- Roar- The ability to yell power sound ways from the mounth. Sounds familiar? Yhwach did something similar during the end fight and Ichigo's sword went flying from his hand.

M- Miracle- The Ability to exchange the damage into God Size. After Yhwach revived his body begin to grow and one of his hands was bigger than Ichigo's head and torso in the scan while his other hand was tiny. Something similar happened to Gerard.

Q- Wind- Bends away space far from the user. Yhwach send Ichigo and Yoruichi flying away by pouring at them. (Whoever when this happened Niazel was dead, yes, and Yhwach hadn't sleep to get stronger, but the lore says their power return to him when they die. Yhwach's absorb souls when at sleep.) a bit iffy.

S- Superstar- After waking up he calls James's power to absorb it and "cheers" to himself and we see some action lines around Yhwach like if something is happening but he is just sitting on a chair, so that would implied he got a power boost by using the ability on himself.

V- Visionary- Really? How else would he create a giant castle in the SK palace out of nowhere? By imagining it of course which is the power of visionary.

Of course this is far fetch but you cannot died that even if I am wrong the abilities and events fit the schrift letters powers. I don't remember if there are any other moments like this in the manga.
 
I disagree with the PSK receiving every power of every fullbringer. To my inderstanding, the pieces of the SK in every fullbringer only ever provided the push the individual needed to trigger their own unique power.

Unless the abilities are explicitly said to come from the piece of the soul king such as Pernida, and I'm pretty sure Gerard (They aren't even fullbringers anyway), I don't think we should assume the fullbringer's ability is given to them via their SK piece.

I believe this especially because every fullbringer's ability is based off their own strong feelings around their personal object, and what powers they believe their object represents. Or are you saying that the different pieces of the SK just so happened to find their way into the fullbringers who would bond with objects that just so happen to correlate to the ability of the SK piece?
 
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@Link

The shard of the Soul King within them is what provides them with that power. If power X comes directly from a small fraction of the Soul King, it's hard to claim the Soul King cannot be argued to possess that power.

They have no 'unique power' without that shard. That shard IS their power.
 
Thats not what I read, they only ever said that the shards turn them into fullbringers (give them the characteristics of fullbringers), while it is the very basic characteristic of a fullbringer that allow them to bond with an object and develope their ow abilities. The PSK should indeed have the basic ability to wield the souls of objects that all fullbringers have, just not the specific abilities.
 
They don't have their own abilities, their power is solely the Soul King's power.

Originally this could've been a point using Orihime as an example that one can make their own power with enough Reiryoku, but Orihime turned out to be a Fullbringer. There is no character in the series that has their own ability with enough Reiryoku, everything has a source and Fullbringers are all from the Soul King fragment.
 
What do you mean?

The old bartender (Giriko?) bonded with a pocket watch and developed an ability based around time

Jackie bonded with the boot she really hated getting dirty so she developed an ability around that

Yukio loves videogames, thus the abilities he developed are centered around playing a game in a virtual world

I can go on.

Are you really telling me the SK planned out every single fullbringer's abilities? Or that it is just a coincidence?

Just because the shards acted as the catalyst needed to become a fullbringer. does not mean that the abilities they developed are based around the shards within them.
 
The Soul King didn't plan them, the Soul King is the source of those powers.

His fragment in the Fullbringers is what gives them that power and what they do. The Fullbring is a conduit, a means of extending their powers.

Do you remember how Fullbring fully works?

It's the manipulation of the souls in objects.

The Fullbring object is just an extended version of that as Ginjo explains, the manipulate the soul of the object they have an attachment to a greater extent. That's literally all Fullbring is.

The Fullbringers manipulating those objects to such extents that it has an ability is because of the Soul King's fragment that gave them that power to do so. His fragment gave them the ability to manipulate souls in objects and his fragment gave them the ability to select an attached object to extend the manipulation to a larger degree.
 
Taken form the novel

[Ginjo had predicted that the reason had to be because of something that was mixed into the Konpaku from before it was born. Although it was not clear what kind of influence this fragment of the Rei-o would have; Ginjo had assumed that just like Mimihagi-sama had taken possession of a Shinigami; if this fragment were to be fused with human beings, then it would bring about an effect similar to that of the Hogyoku.

A device that manifests the desires of those around it
; something that could change the world.

The Hogyoku.

It would not be surprising if the fragment of the Rei-o acts as its substitute and activates Fullbring that ca turn attachment into an ability.]

This seems pretty clear-cut to me.
 
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bring about an effect similar to that of the Hogyoku.

A device that manifests the desires of those around it


it basically means that thanks to the fragments they have those powers
 
Yes, I do not deny that.

But why are you assuming the abilities that are developed based on each individuals attachment are inherent to the shards themselves.
 
Yes, their desires are explained by Chad and Ginjo. The desire is their attachment to their Fullbring, the actual object.

However, just as explained by Ginjo in the manga already, the attachment to their Fullbring is only an extension of the base Fullbring ability, the manipulation of the soul of the object.

It's just a better version of Fullbring in an object of their desire and attachment.
 
Correct the basic functions of a Fullbringer is the ability to manipulate the souls of objects.

But what you are claiming, to reference my above examples:

The shard of the SK in Giriko inherently posesses an ability based around time.

The shard of the SK in Jackie inherently posesses the abiity tp increase it's power the more filth that covers it

The shard of the SK in Yukio not only inherently posesses the abilitty to create pocket dimensions, but also bases the functions of those pocket dimensions around video games.
 
Yes, exactly what I mean, the basic functions of Fullbringers is the ability to manipulate the souls of objects and they can put steroids on this with their desired object.

Although I wouldn't say Yukio's is based around video games, it's just how he uses it all pixelated when we saw with Chad he could make realistic dimensions.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
Yes, exactly what I mean, the basic functions of Fullbringers is the ability to manipulate the souls of objects and they can put steroids on this with their desired object.
Meaning that even if this is the case, the SK would absolutely need the objects in question in order to use the abilities associated with it.

And back to my planned out/coincidence point.

Giriko just so happened to have bonded with a clock

Jackie just so happened to have a back story about keeping her boots shiny

Yukio just so happened to want to immerse himself entirely into his 'virtual reality'
 
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Added Orihime Inoue's Causality Manipulation for the time being into the OP, thank you for pointing it out yet again
 
Why would the SK need the objects in his prime?

The SK would have Aura's basic Fullbring abilities which is equivalent to having all objects with a soul be her Fullbring at once. He's also blatantly superior and not limited like them.
 
Wait, wait, when you say that Fullbringers can manipulate the souls of objects to a greater degree, do you mean to say that it is the object's soul that gives them their abilities? Otherwise I'm not sure where you are going with that.

The bond between a Fullbringer and their object can't be just an expansion on the basic ability of Fullbringers. Because if that is the case then you are saying that the abilities they use come from the soul of the object in question, and not from the Fullbringer themself, or the shard of the SK inside them.
 

Damage3245

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I think I disagree with this bit too:

> Durability Negation and Damage Reflection - Gerard Valkyrie is the Soul King's Heart, and as such he embodies all the abilites that Gerard's 'The Miracle' bestow upon Gerard (Already on Gerard's profile - If Hoffnung is damaged, the person who damaged it will suffer injuries in return)

Hoffnung is Gerard's weapon. Gerard being the 'Soul King's heart' doesn't imply that the Soul King can create/use Hoffnung at will.
 
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ProfessorKukui4Life said:
M11UTD said:
Actually it is. Also SK was stated to be omnipotent and omniscient, why wouldn't he be able to do something that an inferior being with similar powers to his but on a smaller scale can?
.....I really hope this argument is not serious.
I doubt you even understood this comment tbh.
 
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Damage3245 said:
Hoffnung is Gerard's weapon. Gerard being the 'Soul King's heart' doesn't imply that the Soul King can create/use Hoffnung at will.
The damage reflection bit is part of Gerard's base ability. It showcases itself via his weapon, sure, but the weapon and ability come from being the Soul King's Heart.

This is splitting hairs.
 

Damage3245

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@Xulrev; it may be nitpicky, but seeing as Gerard only showcases this ability through his sword, giving it to the Soul King without any sign of the Soul King using the same sword is unwarranted.
 
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Damage3245 said:
@Xulrev; it may be nitpicky, but seeing as Gerard only showcases this ability through his sword, giving it to the Soul King without any sign of the Soul King using the same sword is unwarranted.
Gerard directly states it's his 'Miracle' ability that creates the effect, not Hoffnung. It merely expresses via that route.
 
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Link Eternal said:
That still implies that Hoffnung is required to use that aspect.
Required is not the correct word here I assert. The ability itself belongs to Gerard via his being the Heart of the Soul King. Covnenient, perhaps?

The ability belongs to the Soul King's heart at the end of the day.
 
Who may or may not posess Hoffnung, the only object that this particular aspect of The Miracle was shown to work through. Asserting that the PSK could definitely use this apect without the sword (yes, he probably can) would be an assumption that isn't proven.
 
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I read above that Aizen used the SK nail to make the Hogyaku, can someone explain this with more details?
 
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The sword is an extension of Gerard's power due to being intrinsically linked, then, by this argument. So it still is part of the Heart's power for the Soul King.
 
Still disagree, we do not know if Hoffnung is a sword born from The Miracle or not, yes the Miracle can be channeled through it, but that does not mean that the functions of the sword are intrinsic to the heart .
 
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It does. Gerard states it as a function of his The Miracle.

Ignoring factual evidence given to us by the character isnt a good basis for disagreement
 

Damage3245

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It is a function of The Miracle but the actual application of it appears to depend on Hoffnung.

If the Soul King doesn't have Hoffnung, then he wouldn't be able to do the exact same feat as Gerard, right?
 
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This like Yhwach doesn't get Jugram shield which is part of his Balance ability. Can't he just add that ability to another sword & shield?
 
I'm sure he could, but the only weapon we know he has for sure is a Bow

Edit: Actually nvm I could of sworn that I read that he killed the Hollow with an arrow, but it just said that he destroyed it... so as far as we know he has no weapon
 
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Soul King is a Quincy and they have the ability to make energy swords, bows, arrows, etc and solidify weapons such as bows, guns, crossbows, shields, miniguns as well.
 
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At the end of the day, PSK gets Hoffnung's hax. As a Fullbringer, he can also just make stuff with soul manip. Most of the SK's stuff is redundant tbh and only serves as a wall of shit that doesn't even serve a purpose beyond page accuracy.

Still disagreeing with that Schrift stuff.
 

Damage3245

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Don't the Fullbringers need to form attachments to certain objects in order to draw out powers from them?

Could the Soul King really create a video game pocket dimension before video games were invented?
 
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Damage3245 said:
Don't the Fullbringers need to form attachments to certain objects in order to draw out powers from them?
Could the Soul King really create a video game pocket dimension before video games were invented?
Yes. According to Ichibei he was aware of Ichigo's existence.
 
"By controlling Reishi which dwells in matter, a Fullbringer is able to distort and manipulate the matter itself, and at times, even the laws of physics. Moreover, they can invoke their very own abilities through the transfiguration of an object in their possession which they hold a particular attachment to. However, that isn't the case for this individual." CFYOW Vol. 2 Chapter 10 part 2

The distinction to make here is that while it is the shard of the SK that gave them the capacity to achieve this, the abilities they invoke are not innate to the shard itself. Thus it is not an ability the SK held while whole.
 
When Ginjo stole Ichigo's Fullbring (his Shard probably) he was able to give his ability to all other So it kinda shows that it comes from shard itself Cause other wise it would have been a simple boost which is not what Yukio said when he got it
 
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Dazai is 100% on the money here. If the shard were not what created their specific powers then every Fullbringer would have simply gotten a raw stat boost. This was not the case. The power is from the shard thus it belongs to the SK
 
Same result might have come even if attachment was diffrent. Yukio would still be creating pocket dimension via diffrent means and Tsukishima would be using same power as Book Of The End in diffrent form
 

Damage3245

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Has it been stated that the Soul King could use the individual abilities of these shards?

How do we know that the abilities don't just manifest once they're used by the specific individuals?

To use the Schrifts as an example; Yhwach could grant abilities by engraving a letter onto a Sternritter's soul, but does that mean he could use the abilities before the engraving ever took place? Do we think he originally had all the Schrifts and just separated them from himself, or that he created the abilities on the spot for them?
 
The line in novel was "It was a Quincy as well as a Shinigami; also a human. A symbol of hope governing the chaotic world with innumerable abilities like that of Fullbringers."
 
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So Damage would you equally think it unlikely that the Soul King cannot make use of the powers of his arms?

If not, why would it be odd for him to use the powers of literally every other piece of his body?
 
Ginjo taking most of Ichigo's Fullbring does not guarantee that he stole the shard inside Ichigo because not only is Ichigo still a Fullbringer, you don't even need a Fullbring to be one eg. Aura

@Xulrev

If that is acurate I direct you to a previous point regarding the fact the abilities the Fullbringers develope are suspiciously similar to the objects they bond to, or an aspect about themselves.
 

Damage3245

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@Xulrev; I am mostly neutral on him being able to use the abilities of Pernida, Mimihagi and Gerard.

On the one hand we have a case of both Mimihagi and the Soul King being able to see into the future; so there is a connection there.

And we do have the statement that Gerard and Pernida had their abilities 'since the beginning' implying that since they were torn from the Soul King, they had those powers. How much of those abilities that the Soul King had access to himself, or how he would fight at all is something I don't have enough information on because the Soul King is so vague.

So I can't say strongly that he definitely did have, and could use, those abilities - but I am much more doubtful about him being able to use every Schrift and every Fullbringer ability.
 
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DazaiJisatsuManiac said:
Same result might have come even if attachment was diffrent.
Yukio would still be creating pocket dimension via diffrent means and Tsukishima would be using same power as Book Of The End in diffrent form
That cannot be.

  • SK Fragments were torn off.
  • Some babies are created with this SK Fragments before been born.
  • The mother's of this babies were all attacked while pregnant because Hollows are attracted to the SK Fragments. (Hollows want to eat the babie's SK Fragment.)
  • If the mother and baby survive then Hollow Reiryoku fuses with each SK Fragment activating them.
  • Fullbrings are created. (The abilities awaken through a certain object that the user is attached to later on in life.)
 
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If I am not mistaken Giriko and Jackie didn't awaken Fullbring willingly.

No one awakened it willingly iirc in Xcution (not ichigo and chad)
I haven't heard of a Fullbrings who was not able to develop its powers.
 
If I am not mistaken Giriko and Jackie didn't awaken Fullbring willingly.

No one awakened it willingly iirc in Xcution (not ichigo and chad)
I haven't heard of a Fullbrings who was not able to develop its powers.

Aura?
 
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EmperorRorepme said:
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Lmao doubting the SK can use the powers of his god damn hands is funny.
I just want to know how he lost his organs in the first place.
He willingly agreed to get sealed after seeing the future, and they still fear that he would get out that they remove everything from him.
 
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So then Prime SK with his organs should have his organs' abiltiies no? Or are you saying they developed their own abilities after being severed?
 
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If I am not mistaken Giriko and Jackie didn't awaken Fullbring willingly. No one awakened it willingly iirc in Xcution (not ichigo and chad)
I haven't heard of a Fullbrings who was not able to develop its powers.

Aura?
Not the shards ability, but Fullbring powers as a whole.
 
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You forgot Subjective Reality via The Visionary which allows him to access Existence Erasure as he erased Guanel Lee from existence even from his memory.

And Light Manipulation via X-Axis.

And i could not see Attack Reflection via Miracle.
 

The_real_cal_howard

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This is one of those "I brought you into this world, I can bring you out" kind of deals then. I don't think that would necessarily fall under EE, erasing the thing you created.
 
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Guanel had EE while he was describing his powers Gremmy copied his speech and erasing him from his mind. But I am neutral on this.
 
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Gremmy has both Reality Warping and Subjective Reality and both of these includes Existence Erasure on their profile.Gremmy erasing Guanel Lee further supports Gremmy having Existence Erasure.

And Soul King should also have Nonexistent Physiology from Guanel Lee.
 

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The real cal howard said:
This is one of those "I brought you into this world, I can bring you out" kind of deals then. I don't think that would necessarily fall under EE, erasing the thing you created.
The way Gremmy goes about "bringing Guanel out of this world" is through EE.

Gremmy gave life and has the power to erase it.
 
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"I think the Soul King should have 4-D Soul Manipulation as he can govern and control an infinite amount of Souls. At the very least his Soul Manipulation should be one of the best on this site."

Also i saw this
 
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Is Gremmy's brain the brain of the Soul King?

It can only be implied. Gremmy's brain was also said to have possessed 'god-like power'. Later, when Ikomikidomoe is separated from Hikone after their defeat, Ikomikidomoe ate a Soul King Fragment from Hikone's body, and then boldly exclaimed that he was going to devour the rest of the Soul King fragment within Hikone, and aimed directly to devour Hikone's head.
 
Seems very u fair to give someone like Ichigo duh a large power up when he was literally ragdolled by Ywach n only beat him due to plot arrow. You're upgrade Almighty and GoD tiers based on the novel of prime Si destroying a hollow planet sized monster, n Ywach absorbing DK n becoming more powerful. I was told before that we don't use novel feats and instead we use scaling. If that was the case Naruto and Boruto god tiers should've been upgraded to star level based on Momoshiki and Kinshiki collapsing a star in the novel of Boruto. So, in the Boruto novel 3 shinobi no yoruMomoshiki destroyed a star. The novel mentioned the sun was dying, confirming Momoshiki destroyed it. I could go as far as saying the star was undergoing a supernova; the novel stated "the dying star emitted a synchrotron radiation." A synchrotron radiation encompasses a light that is more than a billion times greater than the light of the sun. Similarly when a star explodes, It suddenly increases in brightness by a factor of many billions times. According to this a supernova does in fact emit synchrotron radiation. Ergo, Momoshiki destroyed the star by triggering its supernova. Following, this particular novel is part of Boruto Naruto Next Generation official timeline, positing it's canon. Possible rebuttals. "This is an outlier feat" Except Momoshiki has other feats that opposes the case. In Boruto episode 65, Momoshiki asserted he created his nursery. Keep in mind nursery is a term used by the Otsutsuki clan to refer to planets. So basically, Momoshiki created a planet. Momoshiki was suggested to be stronger than Kaguya (Sasuke stated Momoshiki and Kishinki were the pursuers Kaguya was afraid of), who was going to destroy a planet, and the space surrounding it. It was also heavily implied she created several planets, one of which contained the dual moons. There's also the fact Momoshiki has eaten more chakra fruits than Kaguya from several god-trees, meaning he has acquired more power. "If Momoshiki could cause a supernova, why was he defeated so easily." He was defeated when he dropped his guard. Pay no attention to the movie; in the Boruto novelization (It should be noted this novel is currently being incorporated by anime) when his Rasengan, and Boruto's Rasengan amped by Naruto clashed, they both varnished. Momoshiki then laughed and taunted his opponents, satisfied he had negated Boruto's Rasengan. Unknowing to him, Boruto's Rasengan didn't exactly dissappear, it simply wasn't projected physically. The Rasengan thus swallowed Momoshiki whole while he was taunting his opponents; when his guard was down. Additionally, the Otsutsuki are known to be susceptible to harm when they drop their guard.

E.g Kishinki got kicked by Kurotsuchiwhen he dropped his guard. Kaguya was blitzed by Kakashi, which caught her by surprised signaling she was off guard. "Why didn't Momoshiki oneshot the Kages" Momoshiki had no longer had any offensive attack. Sasuke specifically addressed this. "Why didn't he oneshot Naruto and Sasuke" Naruto and Sasuke were superlative ninjas, in the sense their abilities were of the highest degree. Momoshiki was an incompetent in comparison as he lacked knowledge in rudimentary training. Basically, he didn't know how to fight. Coupled with the fact his speed was similar to that of Naruto and Sasuke, and the fact he had no offensive attack, he couldn't overcame them. "Does Naruto and Sasuke scale to this feat" No they don't. Momoshiki was stronger than them. The anime summary mentioned that Momoshiki exhibited powers not inferior to Naruto and Sasuke. Then the anime added these power obtained are greater than Naruto's. In fact, Momoshiki looked at Naruto chakra, and still called him fodder. Conclusion. This feat at very least pegged Momoshiki at Solar-system level which makes sense, again, considering he's stronger than Kaguya, not to mention he has eaten more chakra fruits than her.
 
Dangai Ichigo said:
What are you even saying ?
I want to know why bleach novel is used for sk destroying planet sized hollow, but vsbattle does not use Boruto novel for Momoshiki collapsing a Star, and countless planets.
 
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Not the place for this discussion.

As to my OP, what precise issues still remain? I obviously believe the evidence for the Soul King having the abilities of his constituent parts is sound and fairly self evident, are there any abilities that need reworded or included/removed?
 
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