Planetary KE calcs

[StrymULTRA]

Basically this calc got rejected because "we can't apply KE to planetary busts because we can't know if the debris travelled at the same speed in the given time-frame" despite tons of similar calcs went accepted like this, this, this, this or even this

So I've 2 options:

• Discard any Planetary Feat similar to this, adding a new rule about these kind of feats, making them just baseline 5-B
• Accept the calc for the exact reasonings of why the mentioned calcs were

 

[KLOL506]

In the case of the Toeiverse calcs we absolutely know that the debris travelled at the same speed because the anime scene literally shows us it moved that far as it completely dissipated. Ugarik agreed with this regarding the Frieza feat as well (In the Frieza feat, all the debris disappears from the screen within that one single second so that one has no problem being used).

Honestly this seems to be a manga-only issue to me where we aren't shown if all the debris has dissipated or not. Basically make a rule not to use KE unless we have evidence that all the debris dissipated within that specific timeframe.

As for the Piccolo feat, Kep got the timeframe wrong, it takes 13 seconds in total for all the debris to dissipate. Plus he messed up on measuring the moon's diameter properly instead of taking an intact shot of the moon to use.

 

[Antvasima]

If @DemonGodMitchAubin has stated that a revision for this is coming up, it seems better to let him and others finish preparing for it at their own pace.

 

[StrymULTRA]

If @DemonGodMitchAubin has stated that a revision for this is coming up, it seems better to let him and others finish preparing for it at their own pace.

He never stated so, only that he suddently said that these kind of feats aren't accepted anymore and yet there are still plenty of them, so is a issue to be dealt asap otherwise other errors will occur

 

[KLOL506]

He never stated so, only that he suddently said that these kind of feats aren't accepted anymore and yet there are still plenty of them, so is a issue to be dealt asap otherwise other errors will occur

AFAIK only the Pokemon feats have these issues, not the Toeiverse feats (I plan to redo the moon feat anyway). Regardless, my points and Ugarik's points about Frieza's feat being legit still stands.

 

[KLOL506]

If @DemonGodMitchAubin has stated that a revision for this is coming up, it seems better to let him and others finish preparing for it at their own pace.

Nah, M3X was the one who said that he was preparing a revision.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

@M3X

Are you willing to help us out here please?

 

[KLOL506]

Okay.

@M3X

Are you willing to help us out here please?

He said that he will make a separate thread for this later, so I think we should continue this discussion when he makes it there.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Basically this calc got rejected because "we can't apply KE to planetary busts because we can't know if the debris travelled at the same speed in the given time-frame" despite tons of similar calcs went accepted like this, this, this, this or even this

So I've 2 options:

• Discard any Planetary Feat similar to this, adding a new rule about these kind of feats, making them just baseline 5-B
• Accept the calc for the exact reasonings of why the mentioned calcs were

I think your calculation was rejected because pieces still exist close to the planet post-destroyed, thus leading to the conclusion that the planet not did not moved completely.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I think your calculation was rejected because pieces still exist close to the planet post-destroyed, thus leading to the conclusion that the planet not did not moved completely.

That was the just the surface dude

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

That was the just the surface dude

Wait, was it the planet that moved in the explosion or was it just the surface?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Wait, was it the planet that moved in the explosion or was it just the surface?

Only the surface

 

[KLOL506]

Only the surface

Bruh

 

[StrymULTRA]

Bruh

Thing is said impact literally shattered and launched the planet surface in the space, is fiction dude

 

[KLOL506]

Thing is said impact literally shattered and launched the planet surface in the space, is fiction dude

Here I was expecting it to be your typical planet-busting feat but instead only the surface flies out into outer space.

Anyways, my points and Ugarik's point about the Dragon Ball feats (Specifically Frieza in DBS) still stand and thus the DB feats are fine as they are. But the Piccolo feat will need to be recalc'd. Fortunately, it's not that steep of a downgrade for Toei.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Here I was expecting it to be your typical planet-busting feat but instead only the surface flies out into outer space.

Anyways, my points and Ugarik's point about the Dragon Ball feats (Specifically Frieza) still stand and thus the DB feats are fine as they are. But the Piccolo feat will need to be recalc'd. Fortunately, it's not that steep of a downgrade for Toei.

The arguments and methods are basically the same tho

 

[KLOL506]

The arguments and methods are basically the same tho

True, but at least Frieza's feat and Piccolo's feat show all the debris disappearing from the screen within a given timeframe, but a manga is a still image where not all the debris is yet dispersed or is in the process of fully dispersing but hasn't finished yet. That's where the issues stem from.

All in all, KE for planet feats is only legit once you see all the debris disappearing from the screen, as that will be the actual true speed of all the debris moving.

In any case, best to just wait for M3X's thread to see what he types up.

 

[StrymULTRA]

You can still assume a time frame where all the debris go like in animated scenes

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

The arguments and methods are basically the same tho

You can clearly see that there are still districts close to the planet. In the other calculations the move are legitimate

 

[KLOL506]

You can still assume a time frame where all the debris go like in animated scenes

Here's the thing tho, it can wildy vary from feat to feat as to how long it takes for the debris to fly and how far when it comes to manga.

In anime tho? Unless you're just keen on ruining the animation, you can actually see the entire feat unfolding until everything stops moving, like LIFE_OF_KING said.

 

[Rocker1189]

From what I can see the pokemon one has a problem, the rest look fine though.

 

[StrymULTRA]

From what I can see the pokemon one has a problem, the rest look fine though.

There are 2 Pokémon here...

 

[StrymULTRA]

You can clearly see that there are still districts close to the planet. In the other calculations the move are legitimate

What was remained of the planet was completely clean in the end, meaning that all the surface went to oribit

 

[KLOL506]

What was remained of the planet was completely clean in the end, meaning that all the surface went to oribit

Ye but the scans don't show all of the debris having completely stopped moving.

 

[00potato]

Yeah this problem only really applies to Pokémon, I wonder what M3X has planned?

 

[KLOL506]

Yeah this problem only really applies to Pokémon, I wonder what M3X has planned?

He's got issues with the DB feats as well, even though those issues were mostly debunked by Ugarik and me.

But yes this is really only a Pokemon-exclusive problem.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Ye but the scans don't show all of the debris having completely stopped moving.

They likely stopped moving after the huge explosion, nothing said that in the next panel they were still moving

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Pixel Escale

Planet = 734pxl | 12742000
Distance = 272pxl | 4721831.06268

Time = 30
Speed = 4721831.06268/30
Speed = 157394.368756m/s

KE:

Mass = 2.77e+22

Energy = (157394.368756^2*2.77e+22)/2
Energy = 3.4310587e+32J

Planet Level/5-B

I think this way it looks better.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Pixel Escale

Planet = 734pxl | 12742000
Distance = 272pxl | 4721831.06268

Time = 30
Speed = 4721831.06268/30
Speed = 157394.368756m/s

KE:

Mass = 2.77e+22

Energy = (157394.368756^2*2.77e+22)/2
Energy = 3.4310587e+32J

Planet Level/5-B

I think this way it looks better.

Wouldn't be better making the distance from the center of the planet/sphere?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

No, we would be assuming that the mass was from the center of the planet, which I doubt it is

 

[StrymULTRA]

No, we would be assuming that the mass was from the center of the planet, which I doubt it is

They kinda started from the center point tho

 

[KLOL506]

Nah, the core is the center point of the planet, while the crust is simply the outer layer.

 

[Migue79]

Unrelated, but I am just inquiring.

So, the only time to use KE for planet busting is if all the debris of the planet left the screen, yes?

 

[KLOL506]

Unrelated, but I am just inquiring.

So, the only time to use KE for planet busting is if all the debris of the planet left the screen, yes?

YEP, like in the case of Frieza or Piccolo. And King Vegeta. We've been following this for quite a long while now.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Nah, the core is the center point of the planet, while the crust is simply the outer layer.

I meant that they started from thr "center" of the sphere which is the plant, you took it too literally

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Unrelated, but I am just inquiring.

So, the only time to use KE for planet busting is if all the debris of the planet left the screen, yes?

No, you can use. You simply cannot deduce that the whole dough was thrown at once

 

[KLOL506]

No, you can use. You simply cannot deduce that the whole dough was thrown at once

That's not what happens with Frieza's feat or Piccolo's feat tho. Both of them literally show that the entire mass was dispersed at once within that given timeframe. (This is especially apparent with Frieza's feat of blowing up Planet Vegeta).

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I meant that they started from thr "center" of the sphere which is the plant, you took it too literally

I don't know if should use it. Better to ask someone from the Calculation Grup

 

[Migue79]

Oh, yeah! What about this one? Is KE correctly applied to this planet busting feat?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

That's not what happens with Frieza's feat or Piccolo's feat tho. Both of them literally show that the entire mass was dispersed at once within that given timefrace.

I think he was asking about feat in general