Organizing Cosmology pages (Staff only)

[Eficiente]

This now changed into organizing Cosmology pages. Profiles for specific universes & structures will not be done, instead one editable (even if locked) Cosmology page will exist for each verse that may really need it. To avoid any verse from having one rules should still be made about it, and just to have more overall control over this matter.

Below it's just how the thread used to be.

I consider this important, maybe even worth highlighting.

Recently The Sphere of the Gods got a profile, and things such as the Speed Force, the Anti-Life Equation and many more non-living structures will have profiles too. As in other verses will be able to do the same. We need to establish standards for this kind of profiles for obvious reasons and this is what this thread is about.

This is what I consider should be the minimum requirements to allow users making profiles like this: The structures should either

• Be complex & linked to other profile/s to facilitate the redaction of context about it.

• • One of the reasons the Sphere of the Gods was made is because this guy could shake it and the Dimensional Superstructure, so linking both profiles was easier than just say all the context of both places. Otherwise users would just not feel motivated to write all that gives both of those places their tier. Which people deserves to know as is our job as a wiki.
• Bestow a number of power to others, facilitating to structure what abilities someone empowered by the structure should or would scale to have.

• • Ever hear of the "Access to all of X's abilities (Has only demonstrated using the ones listed before)"? It doesn't really work if X is some character who has powers due to being empowered by the structure but also has other powers on their own.

Other proposals

• A category for "Structures".
• A page to point out this standards.
• Indicate that the structures don't have AP if they are not sentient (like the Sphere of the Gods which only has Durability), but that other characters may be able to harness their power.

 

[Ionliosite]

I agree with this. Ichiban Ushiro no Daimaou seriously needs an Afterlife page to explain why the verse is 1-A, and has characters with 1-A smurf hax, on the first place.

 

[Eficiente]

Oh yeah, many verses with tier 1 profiles would benefit a lot from this. I would like to start believing in what they claim, lol.

Also Arceus and the Creation Trio wouldn't have to link Cal's blog about the PKMN multiverse. Along many other examples.

 

[Antvasima]

My main requirement is that the pages should actually be genuinely necessary for properly understanding the powerscaling structure of a verse.

 

[Antvasima]

Should this be moved to the staff board, with a link placed in the official highlights thread?

 

[Eficiente]

Yes and most likely.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will do so.

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

Following

Does Bilious Slick qualify? He is a living universe.

 

[Wokistan]

Pretty sure living locations still count as characters.

I myself am not really sure that we need profiles for pure locations as opposed to just explanations on files and blogs.

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

K

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I am personally fine with it, as long as they are necessary explanations for how the powerscaling structure of a setting works.

 

[DontTalkDT]

A location having powers or a durability sounds somewhat strange. I would talk more about effects or attributes and size or something.


Personally I think putting this kind of explanations into respect pages / blogs seems like the better option.

The pages are mostly interesting for explanation puposes and that is just better done in proper text, than in the bullet point like form that a profile has.

 

[Sera_EX]

I'm vehemently opposed to this on so many levels... :/

 

[Ionliosite]

A place totally has durabilty. Earth is obviously 5-B in dura because you need 5-B energy to fully destroy it.

 

[Antvasima]

@Sera

How so?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Personally I think putting this kind of explanations into respect pages / blogs seems like the better option.

The pages are mostly interesting for explanation puposes and that is just better done in proper text, than in the bullet point like form that a profile has.

This.

Profiles for locations can lead to a large, large amount of redundancy if left unfiltered, and if the location is so fundamental for the ratings of a verse, then it can be moved to a blog that can be linked on a verse's page like any cosmology/explaination blog.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. The problem is that if a location is necessary to explain for scaling purposes, it is much more inconvenient to link to a blog post that can only be edited by administrators.

 

[Eficiente]

Leave this as blogs would actually be a terrible idea, I will elaborate soon.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Okay. The problem is that if a location is necessary to explain for scaling purposes, it is much more inconvenient to link to a blog post that can only be edited by administrators.

From what I understand, this only applies to a select few verses, namely DC and Marvel, where such pages are already locked to administrator editing.

If it were to start applying to more verses than that, again, I feel like we're going to dip into redundancy. Sure, the size of New York City is totally essential to know if a chracter tanked a bomb which was about to destroy it, but I wouldn't make a profile for the city because of that.

 

[Sera_EX]

In short, it's very redundant and we'd be overrun with arbitrary pages for every little "super-verse" in no time. It's not necessary when there's cosmological blogs/explanation pages for that stuff.

A living location like Tartarus is acceptable, but a page for DC's fancy dimensions isn't.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Don't we allow for respect pages? I.e. respect blogs just done as publicly editable wiki pages?

I had the impression we had some of those in the past.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I actually wouldn't be against that, with the caveat that they'd be sub-pages that aren't listed in the search engine.

Although I'd perfer that instead of a respect page, we'd do a sources page, which gives a citation for every power/ability/feat claimed on the profile. Basically so we just list what's actually relevent on the page.

 

[Sera_EX]

Most respect threads (explanation pages in our language) were done as blogs with some being turned into actual pages. I made a thread months ago saying we should convert explanation blogs into public pages but it never went anywhere because some people wanted their blogs to remain as blogs.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Well, I can understand why some people might like their blogs to remain blogs.

If these structures need to be publicly editable, they would be a great opportunity to start original respect pages that are publicly editable. Once it exists it might also get extended with other explanations regarding the verse.

 

[Eficiente]

>"Pretty sure living locations still count as characters."

They do, a structure can be both things.

>"I myself am not really sure that we need profiles for pure locations as opposed to just explanations on files and blogs."

For explanations, they can be too long or purposely simplified. All the context one can get from a profile is way better than all the context one can get from explanations, yet nobody is forced to read all the whole profile. And if many locations need to be explained then it just becomes a mess.

For blogs, many problems. They can only be made and edited by one user, which is not how the wiki works on things that matter and puts constant work on the one who made the blog. This blogs could need to be updated a lot, both on ongoing and dead verses, if the person who made the blog doesn't do stuff about it anymore we would need to move it to other blog, just to eventually do the same in the future anyway. Blogs can have whatever language the user making them may feel like using, and explain things in ways that could be better, nobody is going to feel motivated to basically nitpick things like that to help the blog. Nor would the maker of the blog like to have errors about it in the comments. Blogs can have any amount of comments in them, including people from outside the wiki disagreeing with it honestly, out of lack of knowledge or just trolling.

Really "They can only be made and edited by one user" should more than enough, I see no reason to use blogs for this other than "Why not?" & "That's what we were doing so far".

>"A location having powers or a durability sounds somewhat strange. I would talk more about effects or attributes and size or something."

For the former, I worded it as them bestowing those powers, but it depends on the context. For the latter the durability can be due to size, specific things inside (which may be a few or a lot) or other context, pointing out size would be good but it's not the only reason for their durability.

>"Profiles for locations can lead to a large, large amount of redundancy if left unfiltered, and if the location is so fundamental for the ratings of a verse, then it can be moved to a blog that can be linked on a verse's page like any cosmology/explaination blog."

I very much disagree with this. Even more redundancy can happen in blogs as only one person makes them and who knows who that user is. If collaboration comes up then it basically becomes a profile, except that collaboration may not always be there. There is no such thing as "left unfiltered" here, the same can happen to any profile and blog. How many times have you seen admins motivated to add things into other people's blogs or saying that something needed to be removed next to admins adding & removing things from locked profiles? I see nothing but benefits here.

>"If it were to start applying to more verses than that, again, I feel like we're going to dip into redundancy. Sure, the size of New York City is totally essential to know if a chracter tanked a bomb which was about to destroy it, but I wouldn't make a profile for the city because of that."

This is a massive false equalization, we would obviously have rules about it that would logically make the point implied here simply wrong.

>"In short, it's very redundant and we'd be overrun with arbitrary pages for every little "super-verse" in no time. It's not necessary when there's cosmological blogs/explanation pages for that stuff."

Hypocrite for the wiki as it has profiles for weapons and inanimate objects, even when they have nothing to do with other characters' stats. Heck many of them are made with the same ideas & benefits in mind.

 

[DontTalkDT]

So, what is the downside of just putting them into publicly editable explanation pages, instead of turning what should be a section such a respect page into its own profile format?

This is much trouble trying to generalize how to write two paragraphs of text into bullet points, when you could also just leave them as two paragraphs of text.

 

[Eficiente]

Publicly editable or locked explanation pages work too as they encapsulate all the points here.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

My main requirement is that the pages should actually be genuinely necessary for properly understanding the powerscaling structure of a verse.

This could be a good reason to bring back an Akasha page for the nasuverse

 

[SinsofMan]

As a writer ╠Âb╠Âu╠Ât╠ ╠Âc╠Âl╠Âe╠Âa╠Âr╠Âl╠Ây╠ ╠Ân╠Âo╠Ât╠ ╠Âa╠Âs╠ ╠Âs╠Ât╠Âa╠Âf╠Âf╠ ╠Âh╠Âu╠Âr╠Âr╠Ây╠ ╠Âu╠Âp╠ ╠Âa╠Ân╠Âd╠ ╠Âp╠Âr╠Âo╠Âm╠Âo╠Ât╠Âe╠ ╠Âm╠Âe╠ ╠ÂD╠Âa╠Âr╠Âg╠Âo╠Âo╠Â, I separate my verses by four factors; Laws, Branes (Or lack thereof for 1-A's Structure. Like, the Dark Tower...is a tower.), Temporality (Like a temporal multiverse, similar to Wheel of Time, Star Trek, etc, basically just timelines), and Civilizations inside.

Like using Magic the Gathering. It is governed by Mana and Aether. It is contained in a 5-D space-time called the Blind Eternities. It does have multiple timelines with characters blatantly manipulating them either through clockworking (going into alternate timelines), repairing and mending timelines etc. And there is a few large civilizations inside of it, formerly Phyrexia had multiple planes of universes that were divided into seven segments.

I find that is a good baseline on where to start but that is just me. It probably doesn't agree with the tiering system I forgot I agreed to/was passed lol.

Edit: Hell, Phyrexia as a civilization was implied to be a 'living thing' just not in a purely biological sense.

 

[Sera_EX]

Instead of a page for every DC realm (which is redundant), how about a DC Cosmology page? That's how it's been done before and how it should continue to be.

 

[SinsofMan]

Instead of a page for every DC realm (which is redundant), how about a DC Cosmology page? That's how it's been done before and how it should continue to be.

╠Âb╠Âu╠Ât╠ ╠ÂI╠ ╠Ât╠Âh╠Âo╠Âu╠Âg╠Âh╠Ât╠ ╠Âw╠Âe╠ ╠Âw╠Âe╠Âr╠Âe╠ ╠Âa╠Ân╠ ╠Âi╠Ân╠Âd╠Âe╠Âx╠Âi╠Ân╠Âg╠ ╠Âw╠Âi╠Âk╠Âi╠Â

I mean sure, if the structure is large enough it is probably best to have that. I don't need a Theros page yet, but I do one for the Multiverse.

Seems like a good solution for me though, DC's is an outlier though because it is...so big.

 

[Eficiente]

Well, if it's not just for DC then Cosmology pages would be even better, I agree with it. Rules and such should still be made to only allow them to be made if they matter for profiles.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm in agreement with DontTalkDT

 

[Crzer07]

I am not so keen on making pages for literally anything anyway (this includes inanimate objects) but fine if they are in explanation blogs which was about to be converted to subpages of their respective verse but the prospect of that haven't been taken.

 

[AKM sama]

I agree with DontTalk too.

 

[Antvasima]

I am fine with a DC cosmology explanation page instead. It would be far less inconvenient than spreading out the aspects over several pages.

 

[Sera_EX]

@Eficiente

Of course, it's actually encouraged for Tier 1 verses - especially 1-A ones, to have cosmology pages.

 

[Eficiente]

Then it's decided, I will change the title of the thread and later the OP to reflect that.

 

[Kepekley23]

DT's view seems logical and reasonable.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Sera.