• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Therefir

VS Battles
Content Moderator
Calculation Group
9,302
8,028
I have long had a problem with the way Orochi's feat was calculated, going from the use of an arbitrary timeframe, to the lack of destruction that a supposedly 5-C+ object would actually cause by moving through the layers of the Earth, to the way mass and volume were measured.

Because of that, I made a recalculation of this feat here.

So let's not beat around the bush, the purpose of this thread is to decide which method is better, PE or KE.

In my opinion, the most accurate approach would be to choose the PE method for the following reasons.
First, the current timeframe of only 30 seconds is just an arbitrary guess and could easily be longer.
-Earthquakes on a massive scale envelope the whole planet.
-Buildings begin to collapse, with multiple people reacting to it and wondering what's happening.
-Large cities are uprooted from their foundations one side to another.
-Numerous volcanoes swell and then erupt as a result of the earthquakes.
-And all this happened before the energy could even reach Orochi, while Saitama was bathing in lava. Many people use Saitama saying "I don't even have time to take a bath" as a justification for the timeframe, but not only can a bath take on average 10 minutes to half an hour, but Saitama actually just said he "can't even take a bath in peace".

Second, I think the KE method for this feat breaks the KE rules. Raising up the inner layers at those speeds would have split apart a portion of the planet. Z-City, which is located right above this event, would not only have experienced earthquakes, but would have been directly destroyed and blown into the air.

And third, this case is extremely similar to Psykos-Orochi raising a continent, where we had to decide whether to use PE or KE for the feat. In that thread we decided to go with PE instead of KE because it was safer, it wasn't relying on shaky timeframes, and we could always make a correction once the anime came out and cleared the doubts.

There is no reason to treat Orochi's case any differently, in fact, there are more reasons to believe any timeframe brought here is even more abitrary than in Psykos' case. Therefore, PE should be used.
 
Last edited:
I am not good at calculations but I think that calc doesn't consider the fact that lower parts are deformed as well. Shouldn't that affect results?
 
I am not good at calculations but I think that calc doesn't consider the fact that lower parts are deformed as well. Shouldn't that affect results?
They are too minor compared to the main one and I'm not sure what volume shape to use for them to get their mass. Seems like just a small deformity made over time and not all at once.
 
Last edited:
Btw shouldn't the value of g be different there? I am pretty sure it is 9.8 only on the surface of Earth
 
Btw shouldn't the value of g be different there? I am pretty sure it is 9.8 only on the surface of Earth
The gravitational acceleration peaks at the core-mantle boundary (the section I measured) at around 10 m/s^2, so it doesn't make much of a difference.
 
Our KE rules are so strict to the point of being tbh. But the timeframe doesn't help either. PE might be better.
 
OPM tiers be like
main-qimg-5edf3f40346733ed6d3a81df693b0729-pjlq
 
I agree that PE should be used, KE most of the time inflates the results, but I strongly disagree with your argument about how long it took, but I'm too busy at the moment to debate over.
 
Last time I have approved the PE end of the one said feat yield.
 
I personally don't think the feat breaks KE rules but that might be me having a problem with the rule as it is now in the first place

I never really advocated for the idea that idea that every KE feat needs to produce destruction on the same level to be useable, what I thought I agreed to was not using it if it's explicitly contradicted and can't be saved by the "fiction isn't always realistic" argument
(For the record the current rule comes
from me trying to remove a previous rule and some other staff members arguing to revise it instead)
 
what I thought I agreed to was not using it if it's explicitly contradicted and can't be saved by the "fiction isn't always realistic" argument
I mean, the fact a 5-C+ feat that's almost on the border on Low 5-B coming from just beneath didn't break apart the entirety City Z shows KE is contradictory in this case.
 
I mean, the fact a 5-C+ feat that's almost on the border on Low 5-B coming from just beneath didn't break apart the entirety City Z shows KE is contradictory in this case.
I mean using destructive feats being fodder to the calculated KE in fiction as a reasoning for this feat being invalid isn’t that good or a reason either. Alot of other verses have terrible destructive feats yet there AP is insanely high. Take DBS for example, the most recent chapters have gas going berserk, gaining control and “finally” becoming the strongest in the universe. Smacks granolah through a tree, he bleeds, smacks Vegeta into a boulder, Vegeta bleeds. And these are universe left attacks. logic just doesn’t add up with fiction all the time yet you can still work around that.

also, could you get how deep the MA base is by where the energy is seen in the bottom panel?
 
I mean using destructive feats being fodder to the calculated KE in fiction as a reasoning for this feat being invalid isn’t that good or a reason either. Alot of other verses have terrible destructive feats yet there AP is insanely high. Take DBS for example, the most recent chapters have gas going berserk, gaining control and “finally” becoming the strongest in the universe. Smacks granolah through a tree, he bleeds, smacks Vegeta into a boulder, Vegeta bleeds. And these are universe left attacks. logic just doesn’t add up with fiction all the time yet you can still work around that.
How is that related? The point here is that the rule is that the destruction must match the KE result in some shape or form. And it literally doesn't in this case. City Z and a good chunk of the planet are still intact. This isn't AOE fallacy we're talking about.
 
Fiction is the argument here. Lotta stuff don’t add up but OPM is the target of destruction not adding up.
And? This isn't a case of "Garou isn't Low 7-B because every punch he throws doesn't annihilate a small city".
 
For earthquakes, they can be 6-C, without showing 6-C lvls of destructions. How is this any different?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top