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KingTempest

He/Him
VS Battles
Thread Moderator
21,021
29,906
Yerp

Ok this won't be as long as the last one so lets get straight to the point.

There's 2 main calculations that will be relevant here.

Rel+​

First things first is the Rel+ calc.
Hawkins already scales due to his reasons.
Tobiroppo scale above Hawkins due to being superior and SHs scale to Tobiroppo.
Support is how the Tobiroppo already scale to those values.
  • Base Drake kept up with Zoro
  • Base Who's Who kept up with Jinbe
  • Base Ulti dodged Nami's lightning
  • Black Maria tagged Robin
So the Tobiroppo scale.

FTL​

After that is the FTL calc.

The FTL calc has a new scaling chain.

It'll be put in Whitebeard's sick marineford key instead of his regular oldbeard health key.
As it was done by a sick half dead WB, Akainu scales for countering it.
Marco scales for blocking him.
Every important person in Wano scales.

Big Mom clashed with Marco and grabbed him.
Big Mom matched Kaidou
Luffy self explanatory. His Gear 2nd dodged the Thunder Bagua, etc.
Zoro and Killer intercepted Kaidou. Killer deflected his Kaifu and Zoro did all his interceptions and stuff. We know about that.
Scabbards can fight Kaidou and such and they all scale relative to each other for keeping up with Kanjuro's clones.
Jack fought scabbards.
King could tag Marco.
Sanji matched King.
Queen matched Sanji.
Zoro fought King.

Base Marco slightly backscales for being able to keep up with King.


New calc
Sanji ~ Queen
Sanji ~ King
King ~ Zoro
Big Mom > Queen
Big Mom ~ Marco
Kaidou ~ Big Mom
Luffy ~ Kaidou
Marineford people scale off Marco

Self explanatory huh

Self explanatory who scales to that value.

We don't need a sandbox. Just "intercepted X" or "dodged Y's ___" is good enough. The people that scaled relative in AP scale relative in speed.
 
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So at what point during the war does Oldbeard transition to Sickbeard? After fighting which opponent or suffering which injury? What was the point of even having made separate keys for this in the first place? His general stats don't seem to lower enough to warrant a change in tiers. This is just a question for scaling all the characters above for Whitebeard's feat.
 
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So at what point during the war does Oldbeard transition to Sickbeard? After fighting which opponent or suffering which injury?
After his heart attacks
What was the point of even having made separate keys for this in the first place? His general stats don't seem to lower enough to warrant a change in tiers.
Abilities, weaknesses, stamina, dura, etc.
 
it doesn't follow our methods
What exactly?
The Second calc is sus because there is no confirmation he blitzed their haki but the first is pretty much handed in a silver platter considering the superiority of advanced obs haki over basic haki that considers light slow
 
What exactly?
The Second calc is sus because there is no confirmation he blitzed their haki but the first is pretty much handed in a silver platter considering the superiority of advanced obs haki over basic haki that considers light slow
@DemonGodMitchAubin do yk if its still accepted?
 
it doesn't follow our methods
What about your own TB re-do? The one that used hassakai measurements, etc.. I recall it being a bit higher into the FTL.


Anyway-- Aside from the scabbards scaling to FTL (due to Kaido being mostly stationary and letting them hit him) everything else seems fine.
Would Raizo's feat of catching Boro Breath/Kinemon cutting it qualify as better proof of them reacting to Kaido's combat speed?
 
What about your own TB re-do? The one that used hassakai measurements, etc.. I recall it being a bit higher into the FTL.


Anyway-- Aside from the scabbards scaling to FTL (due to Kaido being mostly stationary and letting them hit him) everything else seems fine.
Would Raizo's feat of catching Boro Breath/Kinemon cutting it qualify as better proof of them reacting to Kaido's combat speed?
yeah
 
What about your own TB re-do? The one that used hassakai measurements, etc.. I recall it being a bit higher into the FTL.


Anyway-- Aside from the scabbards scaling to FTL (due to Kaido being mostly stationary and letting them hit him) everything else seems fine.
Would Raizo's feat of catching Boro Breath/Kinemon cutting it qualify as better proof of them reacting to Kaido's combat speed?
Can you link this calc?
 
Same thing- yes that. It doesn't change the scaling chain or anything just the actual value within the rating.
 
Don't those Thunger Bagua calcs fall into the same category as the problematic reaction speed calcs that were brought up on the Calc Group section a while ago?

Inserting lightspeed reactions in there is just hiding calc stacking.
 
Inserting lightspeed reactions in there is just hiding calc stacking.
Wait, why is it calc-stacking if you have the >character can react to this speed but can't react to this other thing< as a measuring stick?
It's not like Luffy's RS is being assumed or anything- there's a calc for it based on early timeskip reactions, which is more of a lowball than anything since Luffy's far faster down the line.
 
Don't those Thunger Bagua calcs fall into the same category as the problematic reaction speed calcs that were brought up on the Calc Group section a while ago?

Inserting lightspeed reactions in there is just hiding calc stacking.
On this occasion tho its a massive lowball from luffy confirmed reaction speed
Considering that haki gets considerably better as he fights and it rose to even higher levels during katakuri and after udon
So i guess its safe since its using the safest way to quantify a stated reaction speed
 
Wait, why is it calc-stacking if you have the >character can react to this speed but can't react to this other thing< as a measuring stick?
It's not like Luffy's RS is being assumed or anything- there's a calc for it based on early timeskip reactions, which is more of a lowball than anything since Luffy's far faster down the line.
Yeah and there is not a lot of evidence showing the contrary, Kaidou a god tier is the only person to have blitzed luffy in such a dramatic way so there won't be abuse of that
 
Oh well. We'll cross that bridge with a CRT if it gets to it, but at least we have light timing feats to go off of for now. The WB calc being used as a benchmark is good enough.
I agree with everything.
 
Oh well. We'll cross that bridge with a CRT if it gets to it, but at least we have light timing feats to go off of for now. The WB calc being used as a benchmark is good enough.
I agree with everything.
Lol I see a CRT for it being made in a few years. That being said, you’re right about the WB feat being a good benchmark. We have a concrete feat agreed upon and accepted that we can use as a basis.
 
Wait, why is it calc-stacking if you have the >character can react to this speed but can't react to this other thing< as a measuring stick?
It's not like Luffy's RS is being assumed or anything- there's a calc for it based on early timeskip reactions, which is more of a lowball than anything since Luffy's far faster down the line.
Because certain people are illogical
 
Some suggestions for two profiles.

For Zoro's post mink medicine key: Adding higher reactions for Zoro due to the fact he could react to Base and Hybrid King with his flame off, Zoan forms amp his speed via the vivre card statement and his flame being off is shown to make him significantly faster.
FTL (As Fast as before. Kept up with King in base and Zoan Forms) with higher reactions (Reacted to attacks from Base and Hybrid King with his flame off), far higher with Iai Attacks (Speed-blitzed King)
For King: He would have higher with his Zoan form due to being faster than Base as well as with his flame turned off. His imperial Deep Pride Stake would have even faster attack speed as Zoro who could react to No Flame King was completely blitzed by that attack.
FTL (Tagged Marco and kept up with Roronoa Zoro), higher in Zoan Forms (Faster than before) even higher with his flame off (With his lunarian flame turned off he moves speed increases, went FTE to Roronoa Zoro), far higher attack speed with Imperial Deep Pride Stake (Speed-blitzed Roronoa Zoro)
 
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