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One Piece: Wano Arc Part 2.5: AP and Lifting Revisions; The Shogun

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KingTempest

He/Him
VS Battles
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Nerrrrrrds

A new AP calculation has just been produced. The yield for dropping Onigashima onto the ground in its very quick timeframe has been produced.

Momonosuke's flame clouds mitigated the impact, which is why we see small flame clouds above and we see that there isn't a crater from Onigashima falling.

To be exact.

Onigashima falling would kill everyone on Onigashima.

Onigashima fell. Momo produced his flame clouds, and mitigated the fall.

Now why am I bringing up this calculation?

Momonosuke's flame clouds are drastically inferior to Kaidou's flame clouds, as Kaidou could lift and move a larger and heavier Onigashima for an hour while Momonosuke couldn't handle Onigashima for a single minute.

Now on top of that, Momonosuke could directly counter the force of Kaidou's flame clouds moving a larger Onigashima. He moved it the other way He does it nigh instantaneously, which is why he only grunts for a small amount of time.
This qualifies for AP, as it's very quick.
If the feat is rapid, it qualifies for AP.

If it's a pulling feat but still rapid, it qualifies for both LS and AP. Like having a head attached to a rope and you pull it so quickly and so hard the head comes out.

Now with this in mind, this scales to who? Momonosuke's Dragon Form. Momonosuke > Kaidou's flame clouds > Momo's flame clouds > the calculation.
He bit Kaidou and barely even scratched him.
Yamato also scales, as she hurt him with a single strike.

Another person who could scale is Akainu, as his devil fruit is superior to this one in the sense that it can produce more power.

The point of this is accepting the feat as AP.
 
Since when does objects in One Piece drop at 41,000 meters per second? And you do realize that sudden change in speed would have crashed everyone inside Onigashima into the roof?

Also Momo managed to keep Onigashima afloat before it actually accelerated crashing into the ground.

This can be seen here, with Onigashima still being right below Kaido and Luffy's clash after Momonosuke moved it, meaning it didn't have time to fall at all even though Kaido's flames disappeared.
 
Since when does objects in One Piece drop at 41,000 meters per second? And you do realize that sudden change in speed would have crashed everyone inside Onigashima into the roof?
Different planet different size different gravity different freefall speed allat jazz

And I didn't say the freefall was sudden, but the moment that Momo grabbed Onigashima and stopped its movement was sudden.
Also Momo managed to keep Onigashima afloat before it actually accelerated crashing into the ground.

This can be seen here, with Onigashima still being right below Kaido and Luffy's clash after Momonosuke moved it, meaning it didn't have time to fall at all even though Kaido's flames disappeared.
I'm referencing the actual timeframe that Onigashima is falling that Momonosuke was holding it.

When it started to accelerate and crash into the ground, Momonosuke put his clouds out, which were strong enough to safely drop Onigashima to the ground without the island even breaking.

I'm not referencing the small moment that Kaidou's clouds stopped, but when its falling and Momo is mitigating the speed and safely dropping it at a different speed
 
I'm sorry but I'm confused, if it was falling at 41,000 m/s then it would be well below Kaido and Luffy's clash, it would take a single second to be far below them.

Are you trying to say that Momonosuke "safely" landed Onigashima at 41,000 meters per second?
Different planet different size different gravity different freefall speed allat jazz
I don't care even if the planet of One Piece was the size of the solar system, nothing ever happened in the manga to show that gravity is significantly different than in real life.
 
Furthermore even if we used acceleration, Onigashima itself would have to suddenly accelerate at 8,217 m/s² to reach the ground in 10 seconds.
 
What you should be calculating instead is Momonosuke moving Onigashima to the side.
Momonosuke_Moves_Onigashima.jpeg
 
I'm sorry but I'm confused, if it was falling at 41,000 m/s then it would be well below Kaido and Luffy's clash, it would take a single second to be far below them.
They hit the ground by the time Luffy started to fall
Are you trying to say that Momonosuke "safely" landed Onigashima at 41,000 meters per second?
I'm saying that was the speed that it dropped and landed onto the ground, and somehow someway, Momonosuke's clouds stopped its force completely.
What you should be calculating instead is Momonosuke moving Onigashima to the side.
Momonosuke_Moves_Onigashima.jpeg
Do you have a method of moving it plus the timeframe?
 
They hit the ground by the time Luffy started to fall
Luffy was above Onigashima itself, of course he is going to reach the ground after Onigashima.
I'm saying that was the speed that it dropped and landed onto the ground, and somehow someway, Momonosuke's clouds stopped its force completely.
Onigashima didn't have any time to fall and generate that level energy, and even if that was the case there's no evidence it would fall in 10 seconds, they were going to die in the free fall anyway, it's not like they could do anything about it even with more time.
Do you have a method of moving it plus the timeframe?
It's simple:
20220705_190959.jpg


Onigashima's Horn = 3840.26984 m

Distance Onigashima was moved to the side = 18404.6 m

Mass of Onigashima at this point = 2.057*10^16 Kilograms

Timeframe = 5 seconds (Since he moved it relatively quick but fragments still had time to fall a bit)

Speed = 18404.6/5 = 3680.92 m/s

Kinetic Energy = 0.5*(2.057*10^16)*3680.92^2 = 139353234497224000000000 Joules, 33.30 Teratons, Country level
 
Luffy was above Onigashima itself, of course he is going to reach the ground after Onigashima.
Onigashima landed before Luffy started to drop
Onigashima didn't have any time to fall and generate that level energy, and even if that was the case there's no evidence it would fall in 10 seconds, they were going to die in the free fall anyway, it's not like they could do anything about it even with more time.
I flat out gave a reason in the calculation
Plus the fact that the lanterns in Onigashima didn't go too high from when the drop started and ended, and they're kinda fast.
 
Uhh... what? How can you even calculate how high the lanterns went and and what speed they have.

The premise itself makes no sense whatsoever, you are saying that Momonosuke crashed Onigashima at 41,000 m/s directly against the ground.
 
Uhh... what? How can you even calculate how high the lanterns went and and what speed they have.
Look at the shots of the flower capital and look at the balloons height
The premise itself makes no sense whatsoever, you are saying that Momonosuke crashed Onigashima at 41,000 m/s directly against the ground.
You do realize the island landed fast as hell right? Like it landed before Luffy and Kaidou's shockwave even stopped
 
You do realize the island landed fast as hell right? Like it landed before Luffy and Kaidou's shockwave even stopped
No it didn't, it landed way after Kaido had already crossed dozens of kilometers into the ground.

We can even see people cheering and laughing, with the wind blowing while Onigashima is slowly falling into the ground alongside its separated fragments, and while the lanterns rise into the sky.
20220705_193435.jpg

Look at the shots of the flower capital and look at the balloons height
I'm not seeing anything relevant, sky lanterns can only go so high (usually just a few miles).

Even the premise is ridiculous in itself considering that crashing Onigashima at 41,000 m/s would have destroyed the capital and the island itself.

And still kill everyone inside of it, even if the island was somehow shielded by a forcefield.
 
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And we can even see that Luffy falling the next page still had the shockwave around him, well after the island dropped
1050-002.png

I'm not seeing anything relevant, sky lanterns can only go so high (usually just a few miles).
And they barely had a height change in the span of pre-drop to post-drop, which is my point.
Even after it landed, they were still going up
Even the premise is ridiculous in itself considering that crashing Onigashima at 41,000 m/s would have destroyed the capital and the island itself.

And still kill everyone inside of it, even if the island was somehow shielded by a forcefield.
I tackled that in the OP. The fall regularly would've killed everyone, but somehow Momonosuke's clouds stopped its force
 
My issue is the fact that we're ignoring that it dropped super fast.

It didn't kill a soul because the force was mitigated by the clouds. They flat out said that if Momo didn't put the clouds, they would've died.

The bombs didn't even detonate because they didn't hit the ground because Momo blocked it.

Heck we could even argue that there was still water inside Onigashima when they landed, which is why everyone didn't fly up or anything.

The point is that we can't use "nobody died" as an argument.
 
No it didn't, it landed way after Kaido had already crossed dozens of kilometers into the ground.

We can even see people cheering and laughing, with the wind blowing while Onigashima is slowly falling into the ground alongside its separated fragments, and while the lanterns rise into the sky.
20220705_193435.jpg


I'm not seeing anything relevant, sky lanterns can only go so high (usually just a few miles).

Even the premise is ridiculous in itself considering that crashing Onigashima at 41,000 m/s would have destroyed the capital and the island itself.

And still kill everyone inside of it, even if the island was somehow shielded by a forcefield.
I think you're focusing too much on the realistic aspect and forgetting that people in one piece are just built different
Even spandam, a fodder is well into tier 8 physically, so they would have survived the possible effects from the fall
 
I was actually wrong

Momonosuke's flame clouds maintained the island all the way to the bottom
 
I just recognized

The timeframe for the freefall and the timeframe for the plan to be over slap themselves in the face.

The free fall's timeframe would be 289.46 seconds, or 4 minutes and 49.46 seconds.

While well before Onigashima was about to drop, they said the island would arrive at the mainland in less than 5 minutes.

So unless they moved for 10.54 more seconds and dropped it, the timeframe doesn't even align with the freefall.

This supports that the freefall timeframe was faster than it'd be regularly
 
So if this gets accepted (Which i highly doubt) would this make Dragon Momo, Yamato and Akainu all High 6-A?

Also, if Akainu scales to this, wouldn't Whitebeard scale as well? Old Sick dying Whitebeard matched Akainu's Devil Fruit with his own during Marineford so Prime Whitebeard would scale above that for being stronger then his Old Self.

Roger would also scale for matching a Prime Whitebeard, and like you said, Yamato would scale for damaging Kaido, but wouldn't Enma Unleashed Zoro scale as well for damaging Kaido as well as Ryou Luffy, Law etc? Big Mom even told Kaido to dodge one of Zoro's attacks

The other Admirals could also fight against Old Whitebeard, Marco could fight with the Admirals, King could fight with and keep up with Marco, King could also fight and injure Zoro, but the Zoro that fought King might not be the same as the Enma Unleashed Zoro that injured Kaido, Mihawk would also likely scale since defeating him and becoming the World's Greatest Swordsman is Zoro’s Goal
 
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Different planet different size different gravity different freefall speed allat jazz

Haven't gone though the entire thread yet (just woke up) but I'm not a fan of this kind of explanation to just handwave all of the issues with the physics involved here.
 
And we can even see that Luffy falling the next page still had the shockwave around him, well after the island dropped
The island itself is emitting a lot of steam so Luffy's fall having a shock wave doesn't mean anything at all.

Luffy was already upside down on the last page in chapter 1059, which means he was already falling, not that he had just started to fall as you are saying, we just have no idea where exactly he was at the moment.

Using it to justify that Onigashima fell in 10 seconds makes no sense at all, since Luffy was dozens of kilometers above Onigashima and it would take him minutes to fall after the island.

The point is: Luffy not immediately falling there after the island reach the ground doesn't mean it crossed 410,000 kilometers in 10 seconds.

While well before Onigashima was about to drop, they said the island would arrive at the mainland in less than 5 minutes.
So it would take Kaido to move Onigashima to the capital in 5 minutes, but an immensely inferior version of himself is somehow able to crash Onigashima like a meteor and move it nearly half a hundred kilometers in a single second?

Even though we can see fragments of the island breaking off faster than the island is falling?
 
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Momonosuke dropping the island at speeds comparable to a comet would completely defeat the purpose of not bringing it down at high speeds, which would have destroyed the capital as per Kaido's plan.

Also Momonosuke's clouds of flames protecting the entire island like some kind forcefield is a headcanon considering we can see fragments falling from the island as it lands.
It didn't kill a soul because the force was mitigated by the clouds. They flat out said that if Momo didn't put the clouds, they would've died.
The bombs didn't even detonate because they didn't hit the ground because Momo blocked it.
Wrong, the bombs didn't detonate or didn't kill anyone simply because the island didn't fell fast enough, Momo's flame clouds isn't holding island together given that fragments are still falling from it, you are using an argument which could have been perfectly attributed to the fall not being fast enough to set off the bombs.
 
So it would take Kaido to move Onigashima to the capital in 5 minutes, but an immensely inferior version of himself is somehow able to crash Onigashima like a meteor and move it nearly half a hundred kilometers in a single second?
Kaido hold the island and his on battle, Kaido was not focused on the speed of his Flame cloud.
 
Not only he had plenty of time to move it, but his entire plan was dropping it off in the capital so he would win by default, that's why the Alliance was in some sort of timer trying to stop that from happening.

And seriously? You think moving the island at 41,000 m/s is somehow Momo's intention when he is trying to land it as slowly as possible? Instead you think he accelerated the island thousands of times faster than gravity itself would?

How can the flame clouds even cancel out the kinetic energy that would produce the fall, even if we stick with that bizarre explanation that the island is completely protected by the flame clouds (which is not the case)?
 
Timeframe = 5 seconds (Since he moved it relatively quick but fragments still had time to fall a bit)
This is laughable, you literally used 1 second on Bajrang Gun calc and suggesting Momo moved the island in 5 seconds?
Momo definitely push the island way faster than Luffy's Bajrang Gun strike. Let's Take down your Bajrang Gun calc then.
 
That's false equivalence, Luffy swing his Bajrang Gun (which came from the decompression of his fist) only after Momo had already moved the island to the side.

Not to mention that Luffy fully moved his fist while Dragon Kaido was still on the panel, and we already know how fast Kaido was launched into ground.

It might actually be worth calculating if we had any idea how big and heavy Dragon Kaido truly is.
 
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No, Luffy was still struggling with Kaido during that scene, it even gave him time to make a little speech before actually launching Kaido into the ground.

I'm not against a lower timeframe, but Momo didn't moved the island faster than Luffy's 1-second swing, because it happened after the island was moved.

We can also see rocks that have already fallen a decent distance from where the island was previously located.
1657097138615.png
 
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Struggling? You literally said
we can see in this panel, he was able to swing his fist in an instant to beat Kaidou, so we will be using a timeframe of 1 second for the swing.
" Instant"
 
This is not an actual calculation anyway, just how I think it could be calculated, it's a waste of time to discuss it when I haven't even put it in a blog.

I can assure you that it will not give results as high as Tempest's calc, so let's focus on this thread.

Wondering if I should summon more Calc Group Members here.
 
Are you joking, where is Luffy's fist located in this page?

That's right, right above Kaido's face through the entire page.

Now where's Luffy's fist located in this following panel? To his side, having already swing his fist.
Chapter 1049 Page 2 Luffy already launch his attack decompression Begin.
Chapter 1049 Page 7 Luffy Still clashing with Kaido.
Chapter 1049 Page 10 Luffy still clashing with Kaido and Kaido's Flame cloud dissapeared.
Chapter 1049 Page Page 11 Momo create flame clouds and push it over.
Chapter 1049 page 12 Luffy send Kaido in to Brazil.
Now what the heck does this movement have anything to do with Momo moving the island??
Not even 1 sec.
This is not an actual calculation anyway, just how I think it could be calculated, it's a waste of time to discuss it when I haven't even put it in a blog.

I can assure you that it will not give results as high as Tempest's calc, so let's focus on this thread.
That was your argument against KT And I see that being wrong, if the timeframe is above 1 second then take down your Bajrang Calc.
 
Kaido, Luffy, Momo, Yamato and many others had an entire conversation while the clash was going on, you are not making any sense.

The swing itself is one second, but the clash lasted who knows how long. Momo moved the island during the clash, not during the swing which occurs on a single panel.

I've already shown tons of evidence against Tempest's calc.

Also read also what I have said, please:
What you should be calculating instead is Momonosuke moving Onigashima to the side.
At what point did I use this mere suggestion as evidence against the Tempest's calc.
 
Bruh, the decompression is instant. The moment the fist decompressed, kaido got turned into pudding. The first 3 scans you sent was the clash before the fist decompressed.
 
The swing itself is one second, but the clash lasted who knows how long. Momo moved the island during the clash, not during the swing which occurs on a single panel.
Luffy swing his Bajrang Gun (which came from the decompression of his fist) only after Momo had already moved the island to the side.
You said decompression and now you said the swing, okay cool.

Luffy start swinging his arm in chapter 1048
The swing ends in chapter 1049
Waaaaay better.
 
Luffy's fist was still compressed when he punched flamingo, the moment it decompressed, flamingo was sent flying instantly. Not a valid argument.
 
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