One Piece God Tiers Revision 2.0

[KingTempest]

The way the profiles are written currently, there is circular scaling going on for their Striking Strength. We literally have "Roger = Whitebeard" and "Whitebeard = Roger" in the justifications.

I can revise that.

Whitebeard
Attack Potency: Country level (Created a tsunami this powerful with one of his earthquakes).

Roger
Striking Strength: Country Class (Repeatedly stated to be equal to Whitebeard, can fight him with or without the Gura Gura no Mi)

Whitebeard
Striking Strength: Country Class (Clashed evenly with Gol D. Roger without using his Devil Fruit)

Is this better?

WB's Fruit = Roger's Striking & AP = Whitebeard's Striking. We would have to revise these.

 

[Damage3245]

That's better, though personally it still makes little sense to me that Whitebeard is equally strong when he's punching with his Devil Fruit and punching without his Devil Fruit.

EDIT: I don't like how much we have to rely on off-screen fighting and hype for the Top Tiers.

 

[KingTempest]

That's better, though personally it still makes little sense to me that Whitebeard is equally strong when he's punching with his Devil Fruit and punching without his Devil Fruit.

I understand the weird scaling, we tackled this in the original downgrade CRT though. WB with his hand + quake would be equal to his Bisento + Haki, so his Bisento w/ Haki w/ Gura Gura would just be extremely high.

I'm not saying WB's punches w/out Gura = punches w/ Gura, I'm saying his Bisento + Haki = His hand + Gura.

 

[KingTempest]

Are the Yonko scaling to WB fine?

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Are the Yonko scaling to WB fine?

I think them scaling at atleast 14 teratons is fine, should be 6-B. It's fine to me.

 

[KingTempest]

EDIT: I don't like how much we have to rely on off-screen fighting and hype for the Top Tiers.

Oda has visually shown us like 2 onscreen top tier fights.

WB vs Admirals.
Admirals vs Commanders.

Even Kizaru vs Rayleigh was 2 clashes and then it was offscreen bs.

We don't get that many flashback fights.

Edit: The only ones that we see are on the anime.

Kaido vs Linlin
WB vs Oden Etc.

 

[joshpiece]

Are the Yonko scaling to WB fine?

No problems here.

 

[Antvasima]

At the very least, the following feat was performed via raw physical power rather than the earthquake fruit, so a 6-C upgrade is fully warranted if it is accepted:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:DemonGodMitchAubin/One_Piece:_Kaido_and_Big_Mom_Clash

I do not know whether or not the Whitebeard and Blackbeard feats are merely environmental destruction, as Blackbeard was explicitly not able to cause such destruction on his own before he received the fruit.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

At the very least, the following feat was performed via raw power rather than the earthquake fruit, so a 6-C upgrade is fully warranted if it is accepted:

One Piece: Kaido and Big Mom Clash

vsbattles.fandom.com

I do not know whether or not the Whitebeard and Blackbeard feats are merely environmental destruction, as Blackbeard was explicitly not able to cause such destruction on his own before he received the fruit.

Uh ant, 6-B was accepted yesterday

 

[KingTempest]

At the very least, the following feat was performed via raw power rather than the earthquake fruit, so a 6-C upgrade is fully warranted if it is accepted:

One Piece: Kaido and Big Mom Clash

vsbattles.fandom.com

Agreed, 6-C should/would be the minimum

I do not know whether or not the Whitebeard and Blackbeard feats are merely environmental destruction, as Blackbeard was explicitly not able to cause such destruction on his own before he received the fruit.

The fruit gives WB and BB the AP required, and the AP is battle applicable which makes it non environmental destruction. The destruction to the environment isn't what was being calculated, it is the energy from the quakes.

Environmental destruction for this would be calcing the energy required to tilt the sea, but all I calculated was the energy required for the earthquake in general, which is directly caused by WB and BB, which they can apply to their attacks, making this everything but ED.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

My 6-C calc wasn't evaluated yet guys, so 6-C is not a done deal

 

[Stefano4444]

Good to finally see a solid One Piece upgrade for once a while, and as you can see i fully agree with it.

And as @KingTempest say, WB and BB's feats are indeed combat applicable, they aren't environmental destruction only.

Which means the Devil Fruit power scale to their Attack Potency, which also would scale to their Durability and Striking Strength.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the problem is that if Whitebeard does not need the earthquake fruit to cause such destruction, and the other god-tiers do not need it either, why would Blackbeard and others consider it such a big deal to get it anyway? And if it places Whitebeard and Blackbeard in a tier of their own, and scales to their punching power, why can't they easily one-shot everybody in the verse? It doesn't make any sense, and as such it seems more reliable to give Whitebeard and Blackbeard "6-C via physical strength, 6-B via environmental destruction".

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Ooooh, Chaos and Conflict, I love it

Also yeah, Ant brings up a very good point TBH

 

[Damage3245]

Well, the problem is that if Whitebeard does not need the earthquake fruit to cause such destruction, and the other god-tiers do not need it either, why would Blackbeard and others consider it such a big deal to get it anyway? And if it places Whitebeard and Blackbeard in a tier of their own, and scales to their punching power, why can't they easily one-shot everybody in the verse. It doesn't make any sense, and as such it seems more reliable to give Whitebeard and Blackbeard "6-C via physical strength, 6-B via environmental destruction".

I agree with this. I don't think we should be relying on Roger scaling to Whitebeard's Devil Fruit off-screen in order to justify everybody have 6-B Striking Strength.

Giving them separate ratings for their physical strike and the Gura Gura no Mi seems better to me.

 

[Antvasima]

At the very least, the following feat was performed via raw physical power rather than the earthquake fruit, so a 6-C upgrade is fully warranted if it is accepted:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:DemonGodMitchAubin/One_Piece:_Kaido_and_Big_Mom_Clash

I do not know whether or not the Whitebeard and Blackbeard feats are merely environmental destruction, as Blackbeard was explicitly not able to cause such destruction on his own before he received the fruit.

@Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Mr._Bambu @Therefir @Ugarik @Jasonsith @Wokistan @Armorchompy @KieranH10 @Migue79

Would any of you be willing to evaluate the above linked calculation please? Also, preferably tell us here when you have done so.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Well, the problem is that if Whitebeard does not need the earthquake fruit to cause such destruction, and the other god-tiers do not need it either, why would Blackbeard and others consider it such a big deal to get it anyway? And if it places Whitebeard and Blackbeard in a tier of their own, and scales to their punching power, why can't they easily one-shot everybody in the verse? It doesn't make any sense, and as such it seems more reliable to give Whitebeard and Blackbeard "6-C via physical strength, 6-B via environmental destruction".

Well once again, they can direct their powers with the Gura Gura on people, and use the quakes itself for offense. It would make no sense to apply 6-B as only environmental destruction, when they themselves can use the power of the devil fruit on people, and control and direct the waves. I also believe that the destruction of the fruit itself is mainly an AOE type thing, where it destroys a bunch of the area that is around you, which is why it was people were deeply afraid to the point where sengoku said that it could "Destroy the world" I completely disagree with making it as environmental destruction. I just think 6-B is fine for them. It would potentially be an AOE fallacy from where you're going.

 

[Stefano4444]

Well, the problem is that if Whitebeard does not need the earthquake fruit to cause such destruction, and the other god-tiers do not need it either, why would Blackbeard and others consider it such a big deal to get it anyway? And if it places Whitebeard and Blackbeard in a tier of their own, and scales to their punching power, why can't they easily one-shot everybody in the verse?

Because Attack Potency ≠ Destructive Capacity.

Big Mom, Kaido, Garp, Sengoku, Shanks, Oden and Roger may be unable to cause as much as destruction as Whitebeard, but their physical strength is still on the same level.

Just like Hit from DBS, his physical attacks have never display to be same Destructive Capacity as Goku's Ki Attacks, but he can still match him Kamehameha nonetheless.

Or Batman, who had Building level AP and yet i doubt anybody think that he can how destroy buildings with punches or kicks.

 

[KingTempest]

Well, the problem is that if Whitebeard does not need the earthquake fruit to cause such destruction, and the other god-tiers do not need it either, why would Blackbeard and others consider it such a big deal to get it anyway? And if it places Whitebeard and Blackbeard in a tier of their own, and scales to their punching power, why can't they easily one-shot everybody in the verse. It doesn't make any sense, and as such it seems more reliable to give Whitebeard and Blackbeard "6-C via physical strength, 6-B via environmental destruction".

Ant, you're confusing Destructive Capacity with Environmental Destruction.

Environmental Destruction is just AP which you can not use against a certain person. They can use these on certain people who can match it. A prime example is when Whitebeard hit Akainu.

For example. Whitebeard pulled his 6-B feat off by cracking the air.

He can apply that same crack on people.

Which would make it AP with large DC.

They are definitely not capable of producing that much Destructive Capacity on their own, that's for sure, but the Attack Potency of the feat is what Wb can produce to harm people and what they can match. We have that explained on the Attack Potency page.

Attack Potency​

An alternative term for Destructive Capacity which has more direct meaning: The Destructive Capacity that an attack is equivalent to. A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces. As such it isn't proof of a low attack potency, if a character's attacks only cause a small amount of destruction.

Whitebeard is shown to use his quakes in attacks like these, which people can match, which he can match with his regular strikes w/ his weapon.

 

[Damage3245]

On a related note to the God Tiers, I don't think that Blackbeard's 2nd key should have 6-B Striking Strength and Durability.

Blackbeard is completely inferior to Whitebeard Pre-Timeskip, yet after he gains the Gura Gura no Mi he is able to use the quakes without issue. I don't think there's any indication of recoil in the attack, or evidence that it should scale to his durability.

And "being comparable to the other Yonkou" shouldn't be enough justification by itself because as far as we know he hasn't fought any of the other Yonkou yet.

 

[KingTempest]

On a related note to the God Tiers, I don't think that Blackbeard's 2nd key should have 6-B Striking Strength and Durability.

Blackbeard is completely inferior to Whitebeard Pre-Timeskip, yet after he gains the Gura Gura no Mi he is able to use the quakes without issue. I don't think there's any indication of recoil in the attack, or evidence that it should scale to his durability.

And "being comparable to the other Yonkou" shouldn't be enough justification by itself because as far as we know he hasn't fought any of the other Yonkou yet.

That's no issue, we can downgrade the striking and durability for Blackbeard then.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

On a related note to the God Tiers, I don't think that Blackbeard's 2nd key should have 6-B Striking Strength and Durability.

Blackbeard is completely inferior to Whitebeard Pre-Timeskip, yet after he gains the Gura Gura no Mi he is able to use the quakes without issue. I don't think there's any indication of recoil in the attack, or evidence that it should scale to his durability.

And "being comparable to the other Yonkou" shouldn't be enough justification by itself because as far as we know he hasn't fought any of the other Yonkou yet.

That's fair, but he did fight sengoku offscreen and sengoku had no bruises before until he fought BB and his crew until afterwards. I don't think we should completely remove it, and for now keep his striking and dura strength as "possibly 6-B". Not to mention that he took a blow from sengoku's shockwaves.

 

[Damage3245]

That's fair, but he did fight sengoku offscreen and sengoku had no bruises before until he fought BB and his crew until afterwards. I don't think we should completely remove it, and for now keep his striking and dura strength as "possibly 6-B". Not to mention that he took a blow from sengoku's shockwaves.

His entire crew did, but I don't think his whole crew, including the likes of Burgess, are equals to Whitebeard. (Even if they did use pistols to hurt him...)

 

[StrawHatArslan]

His entire crew did, but I don't think his whole crew, including the likes of Burgess, are equals to Whitebeard. (Even if they did use pistols to hurt him...)

Obviously not, but my point is that sengoku wasn't bruised up until after fighting BB. His shockwaves hurt BB, and his entire crew, but afterwards it's likely that it was BB who did most of the damage considering he was the one fighting sengoku headon, despite most of it being offscreen. For those reasons I feel like his durability should be a possibly 6-B. However for his striking strength, I feel like it could be removed since it's not really justified.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Eh, I still agree with KingTempest, I have no issues with scaling Whitebeard and BB to 6-B and whoever scales to them being at that level

I will admit there is so iffyness in my mind about everyone this scales to, but I still think it's accurate

 

[KingTempest]

His entire crew did, but I don't think his whole crew, including the likes of Burgess, are equals to Whitebeard. (Even if they did use pistols to hurt him...)

Nobody except this list of people scale to Whitebeard.

The Yonko
The Pirate King
The Strongest Swordsman
The Daimyo of Wanokuni
The Fleet Admiral and the Hero of the Marines.
The Golden Lion.
Those equal to those above.

We will downgrade Blackbeard's Striking Strength because that is fair. There is no reason why he would scale.

In the instance where Sengoku would scale via my databook statement from above of being = to his prime self who has a relative scaling chain to WB, Sengoku would scale, which ends up for Blackbeard's durability, and Whitebeard could hurt him with his Bisento so he would scale.

Is that fair enough?

 

[Damage3245]

In the instance where Sengoku would scale via my databook statement from above of being = to his prime self who has a relative scaling chain to WB, Sengoku would scale, which ends up for Blackbeard's durability, and Whitebeard could hurt him with his Bisento so he would scale.

Wasn't that databook statement specifically for Whitebeard?

The Oda SBS comment doesn't specify any characters in particular. And it's not a universal statement either since Hyogoro is an old guy and he's not equal to his prime self (until he gets Ice Oni).

 

[KingTempest]

Wasn't that databook statement specifically for Whitebeard?

The databook one was for whitebeard, the original is for old people who haven't had anything happen to their health.
He sent pictures of 4 people in that SBS.

And he makes it broad for every old person, not just WB. We don't need specific people in every statement.

The Oda SBS comment doesn't specify any characters in particular.

Above

And it's not a universal statement either since Hyogoro is an old guy and he's not equal to his prime self (until he gets Ice Oni).

Hyogoro was malnutritioned in prison for 20 years. He's a horrible example.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, given the above arguments, I suppose that I am mostly fine with a 6-B upgrade then.

It would still be good to get the 6-C feat evaluated and preferably accepted though, as a backup solution.

 

[KingTempest]

Well, given the above arguments, I suppose that I am mostly fine with a 6-B upgrade then.

It would still be good to get the 6-C feat evaluated and preferably accepted though, as a backup solution.

I appreciate your support.

I agree though, that would be a good backup solution for the tiers. Regardless, they're both astronomically better than scaling to the mid/high tiers.

I'm assuming that I can edit the profiles now. Does anyone else have any other issues with the scaling before I put them in? Or no.

 

[RexofLM]

I appreciate your support.

I agree though, that would be a good backup solution for the tiers. Regardless, they're both astronomically better than scaling to the mid/high tiers.

I'm assuming that I can edit the profiles now. Does anyone else have any other issues with the scaling before I put them in? Or no.

Lol so the 6c feat is a good backup!

 

[Antvasima]

Well, when you start editing, please remember to carefully read through and follow the instructions in our Common Editing Mistakes page, so no badly structured edits are made, and extensive cleanup work will not be necessary.

Also, since you will change character statistics, also remember to update the tier categories at the bottoms of the profile pages.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Well, when you start editing, please remember to carefully read through and follow the instructions in our Common Editing Mistakes page, so no badly structured edits are made, and extensive cleanup work will not be necessary.

Also, since you will change character statistics, also remember to update the tier categories at the bottoms of the profile pages.

Ha, rookie mistakes

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I encounter them a lot, so better safe than sorry.

 

[KingTempest]

Surprisingly, all I had to do was change Shanks' justification and that was it. They all scale off of him.

Thanks everybody, this thread can be closed.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Surprisingly, all I had to do was change Shanks' justification and that was it. They all scale off of him.

Thanks everybody, this thread can be closed.

K then