One Piece Chapter 1008: "Leader of the Bandits of Atamayama, Ashura Douji" (Official Release)

[KingTempest]

The rule is not done, as we need to spread out our workloads, but many people seem to either ignore it or not keep track properly.

I apologize for my ignorance. I definitely have part in this since I've made the most CRTs recently, so I'll chill on that.

is there much left to do in the current ones?

I'm working on the lifting, it's going to be extremely time consuming but it's not much that can be done in there. It's mainly just going to be "is this good and are there any issues with this?" after a certain point in time, but it's not like an active revision.

The CoO one is technically done.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks for helping out.

 

[CinCameron20]

What would the new thread be about?

I've been wanting to discuss adding separate tiering for characters who utilize Armament Haki since it actually seems necessary in more recent arcs (particularly Wano) and there's a clear gap between a user's base AP/Dura and their Haki-enhanced AP/Dura. There's also the case of discussing the 6-B scaling, and also scaling Doflamingo to 6-C (for his threads no-selling Fujitora's meteorites).

I believe all 3 topics can be discussed in one thread, unless the Haki talk should be its own.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose that seems fine, but you should probably wait until the other two threads are finished.

 

[Kurifesilon]

discuss adding separate tiering for characters who utilize Armament Haki since it actually seems necessary in more recent arcs (particularly Wano) and there's a clear gap between a user's base AP/Dura and their Haki-enhanced AP/Dura

Even though i don’t agree with it, currently the wiki has Haki as a type of forcefield. How exactly are you gonna argue that Haki increases the user’s durability before you argue that Haki should be considered a forcefield or not?

 

[CinCameron20]

Even though i don’t agree with it, currently the wiki has Haki as a type of forcefield. How exactly are you gonna argue that Haki increases the user’s durability before you argue that Haki should be considered a forcefield or not?

Only point I'm trying to make is a character's stats are amp'd when using Armament (namely Hardening, which as far as we can tell simply harden's the user's body--ignoring the DF effects for now--and clothing/weapons if they are capable of imbuing it into items like Doffy/Zoro).

Characters will get a "higher" or "X-tier" rating with Haki since their attacks and defenses are clearly increased and there are feats of them being able to withstand attacks from characters who are otherwise way stronger than them normally (i.e. Law's Haki protection vs Doflamingo's Goshikito, which can justify Law having a solid tier placement for his durability w/ Haki)

Also having a separate rating when character's amp themselves with Haki seems necessary for clarity since small instances tend to be ignored when comparing characters to eachother, such as the Doffy/Kata vs Gear 4th Luffy's durability case:

A) Doflamingo's Athlito landing on Bound-Man Luffy, who is defending with a culmination of Hardening and his elasticity bouncing off physical strikes.
B) Katakuri is capable of hurting Bound-Man Luffy's body while using Haki. His Power Mochi caused Luffy to bleed both times we see it hit.

A lot of people tend to ignore these cases and try to use case B to justify scaling Katakuri far above Doflamingo's Case A (thus trying to scale Katakuri > BM Luffy) when there's a clear factor being ignored. In reality, taking everything into consideration (manga statements, feats, etc), it's more reasonable to say: "BM Luffy amp'd with Haki > Katakuri amp'd with Haki >/= BM Luffy >/= Katakuri Base >/= Base Luffy amp'd with Haki"

Luffy's AP with Bound-Man already accounts for Haki (since we never see him attack without it), and he proves to be above Katakuri + Haki. We only see BM Luffy suffer damage from Katakuri potentially as a result of Luffy NOT defending with Haki. Hell, Katakuri's Power Mochi hit Luffy's Haki-covered arm from the side, and we see literally no reaction from Luffy.

(Also, Base/G2/3 Luffy WITH Haki could get partial scaling from Doflamingo's durability since he's capable of inconsistently dealing damage to him... but it would only be partial scaling since it's inconsistent, and only happened vs post-gamma knife Doffy... Gotta remember a Haki-kick from Luffy caused Katakuri to bleed as well)

 

[KingTempest]

Doesn't Katakuri only use Haki?

 

[CinCameron20]

Doesn't Katakuri only use Haki?

No? He has done regular attacks to hurt Luffy (whether the latter has protected with Haki or not), though this only happened a few times.

It would be easier for me to link examples, yet no one has told me how to link images via text despite my asking

 

[KingTempest]

No? He has done regular attacks to hurt Luffy (whether the latter has protected with Haki or not), though this only happened a few times.

From all I know, the regular attacks he used were his spear and jelly beans

It would be easier for me to link examples, yet no one has told me how to link images via text despite my asking

Look at the bar above the messages where these are

When you find this

That's where you can link pictures.

When you find this

This is where you can share pictures (like what I'm doing), but they need links to them.

 

[CinCameron20]

@KingTempest - Thank you.

• One example of Katakuri not using Haki (his Haki has a blueish gray tint, making it easier to know if he's using it on his legs or not)
• Another
• Willow Mochi
• Katakuri hurting Luffy through his Haki defense with a normal kick
• Another kick
• Katakuri taking a haki-infused kick from Luffy and basically shrugging it off

So yeah, Kata does have some feats where his base physicals are comparable or outright superior to Luffy's Haki-enhanced physicals.

Sadly, there's no feats vs Bound-Man Luffy, but he would scale normally anyways for taking attacks (with and without Haki) and battling Luffy for 25 minutes off-panel to a near-standstill.

 

[KingTempest]

@KingTempest - Thank you.

• One example of Katakuri not using Haki (his Haki has a blueish gray tint, making it easier to know if he's using it on his legs or not)
• Another
• Willow Mochi
• Katakuri hurting Luffy through his Haki defense with a normal kick
• Another kick
• Katakuri taking a haki-infused kick from Luffy and basically shrugging it off

So yeah, Kata does have some feats where his base physicals are comparable or outright superior to Luffy's Haki-enhanced physicals.

Oh wow, yeah you're right for sure. Some people would argue the "invisible Buso" point for why he could hurt Luffy with blunt attacks, but I guess these are good.

Sadly, there's no feats vs Bound-Man Luffy, but he would scale normally anyways for taking attacks (with and without Haki) and battling Luffy for 25 minutes off-panel to a near-standstill.

Finally someone says he scales to Boundman, agreed.

 

[CinCameron20]

Finally someone says he scales to Boundman, agreed.

Bound Man Luffy is physically stronger than Katakuri and (weakened) Flamingo, so I would only say they are comparable to him for being able to hold him off for extended periods.

Also, "invis buso" can not be argued unless explicitly stated (Basically for Sanji. He's had to call it out himself, or others noted it), or pre-ts since all Haki was invisible back then.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

And Tashigi I think, but that's about it.

 

[CinCameron20]

I wish they had some sort of visual or sfx indicator, like a soft glow or something. It gets very confusing.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Agreed, like maybe just make the body part or weapon affected shinier, or have the same sound effect as Koka but in a softer tone if you know what I mean.

 

[XDragnoir]

Also, "invis buso" can not be argued unless explicitly stated (Basically for Sanji. He's had to call it out himself, or others noted it), or pre-ts since all Haki was invisible back then.

So BM grabbed Marco without Haki.

Yeah i know that thread isn't even open anymore, but it's still nice to know that i was right.

 

[CinCameron20]

So BM grabbed Marco without Haki.

Yeah i know that thread isn't even open anymore, but it's still nice to know that i was right.

(What thread?) But here's the thing, does Marco function like a Logia? He's a Phoenix, not literal fire. His wounds burst into flames and regenerate. Grabbing him like Big Mom did would not leave an open wound.

 

[RoyGundam]

Also, "invis buso" can not be argued unless explicitly stated (Basically for Sanji. He's had to call it out himself, or others noted it), or pre-ts since all Haki was invisible back then

Considering that Luffy got hurt, isn't it safe to assume that Katakuri was using invisible armament ?

 

[RoyGundam]

(What thread?) But here's the thing, does Marco function like a Logia? He's a Phoenix, not literal fire. His wounds burst into flames and regenerate. Grabbing him like Big Mom did would not leave an open wound.

Good point, although it seems that Marco can freely control the level of his durability

 

[XDragnoir]

(What thread?) But here's the thing, does Marco function like a Logia? He's a Phoenix, not literal fire. His wounds burst into flames and regenerate. Grabbing him like Big Mom did would not leave an open wound.

I agree with you, but the thread was discussing exactly that.

Here is the thread if you want to read it https://vsbattles.com/threads/logia-regen-downgrade.114104/

 

[CinCameron20]

Considering that Luffy got hurt, isn't it safe to assume that Katakuri was using invisible armament ?

Luffy is resistant to physical attacks. He's not invulnerable to them. Non-Haki users during pre time-skip were capable of hurting his body with punches and kicks. Rob Lucci is probably the best example since he is the character to land the most strikes on Luffy pre-ts.

Doflamingo and Katakuri both did not need to use Haki to deal harm to Luffy with kicks. It's better to assume they did not use Haki when there's no visual indicator since A) what's the point of making them use an inferior version of Armament to hurt Luffy, B) there's no proof of them actually using it, and C) Both characters in particular are suggested heavily to be far stronger than (non-G4) Luffy to the point where it's almost a stomp.

 

[CinCameron20]

I agree with you, but the thread was discussing exactly that.

Here is the thread if you want to read it https://vsbattles.com/threads/logia-regen-downgrade.114104/

Idk why people are arguing that Marco is made of fire... he's a phoenix... a bird... COVERED in fire. Not comprised entirely of fire.

 

[RoyGundam]

Luffy is resistant to physical attacks. He's not invulnerable to them. Non-Haki users during pre time-skip were capable of hurting his body with punches and kicks. Rob Lucci is probably the best example since he is the character to land the most strikes on Luffy pre-ts.

Lucci had special techniques to hurt people like Luffy

 

[PsychoWarper]

Idk why people are arguing that Marco is made of fire... he's a phoenix... a bird... COVERED in fire. Not comprised entirely of fire.

I mean thats assuming Oda follows that logic and didnt decide to make a Phoenix to be made from fire.

Dont we see a scene in which Marco is flying in Phoenix form and bullets seem to just pass straight through him, how do we treat something like that? Do we just say they pierced his body? Cause if so they did it with extreme ease.

 

[XDragnoir]

I mean thats assuming Oda follows that logic and didnt decide to make a Phoenix to be made from fire.

Dont we see a scene in which Marco is flying in Phoenix form and bullets seem to just pass straight through him, how do we treat something like that? Do we just say they pierced his body? Cause if so they did it with extreme ease.

Iirc it was done by Kizaru not by randoms... does not actually matter cause both were able to pierce White Beard, without haki/df you can't tank a bullet in OP.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Hmm thats fair.

 

[Eminiteable]

Loved seeing Zoro like this again, it's been long overdue since the pre-timeskip.

 

[Eminiteable]

bump official release is out

 

[Kurifesilon]

Cool, cool. Glad kaido’s hybrid form doesn’t look goofy, expected Oda to pull a fast one on us. Doubt this is his final or strongest one though, expecting an awakened form, hopefully he starts using hardening too.

 

[XDragnoir]

hopefully he starts using hardening too.

It seems you don't want our heroes to win... HERESY!

 

[Kurifesilon]

It seems you don't want our heroes to win... HERESY!

I’m a Mr. Morj connoisseur and firm believer of the “The Onigashima raid will end in failure” axiom.

 

[XDragnoir]

What are you saying? Just look at the last two pages of 1008, the yonkou are perfectly fine, most of the novas already used their best moves and have little to no trump cards remaining, much less one that would defeat two yonkou at the same time... and even then Luffy is smiling, if that does not confirm G5 idk what would.

G5 vs BM, Ashura vs Kaido, that's it.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Whats the Zoan Awakening again? Its been awhile.

 

[XDragnoir]

Whats the Zoan Awakening again? Its been awhile.

Impel Down's demon guards.

 

[Eminiteable]

Spoilers for chapter 1009 are out here: https://vsbattles.com/threads/one-piece-chapter-1009.114739/