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On the topic of Raikage and Mifune's speed (Naruto)

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For Mifune:
STZKFd9.png


光速の一刀は飛ぶ斬撃となって、敵を襲う/名刀黒滞とミフネの剣技が合致した一撃

The speed of light sword becomes a flying sword and attacks the enemy / A blow that matches the sword technique of Mifune

alternatively says "lightspeed sword stroke" as translated by arc7

For Raikage:

KVkrXqf.jpg

光の如きスピードで突進しながら
Rushing forward with the speed of light.

However this has an issue:
7pxiqr1c2k861.png

光の如き->(hikari no gotoki, light-like speed [but not actually lightspeed]) 如->(goto) 如き->(gotoki the conjugated form of gotoku)
The 如き is part of a family of simile kanji for stuff like “his gaze was like a piercing flame”

“Used to describe something that is like something else but isn’t actually” aka simile

The "goto" set of adverb/adjectives is used to call something something else as simile, for example "float like a butterfly sting like a bee" he isn't actually floating like a butterfly or stinging with his ass he's merely light on his feat and strong with his jabs
when it says "light-like" with "goto" it is the same premise
"he moves like light, but he's not actually moving the same as light" all it means is "similar to how light is perceived as super fast, the Raikage is also super fast" it is not saying "Raikage moves at light speed"
it's a phrase that doesn't convey its meaning well in English

I would like to give however an alternative take:

gotoki doesn't always imply that the comparison is non-literal, but it can be used that way

It's the noun-modifying form of gotoshi, which is used to indicate similarity

Gotoshi indicates similarity. As shown in the Formations, it changes form depending on its grammatical function. That is, the sentence-final form is gotoshi, as shown in Formation (i) and (ii); the adverbial form is gotoku, as in Formation (iii); and the noun-modifying form is gotoki, as in Formation (iv) and (v). One of the functions of gotoshi is to mark a simile, as seen in KS(A)-(D), Exs.(a) and (b). When ka is inserted, as in KS(B), (E), Exs.(c) and (h), it adds the nuance of doubt on the part of the speaker.

Ka is か or カ


To make an argument for the statement still being usable though, there are two interpretations of it. That the sentence is comparing his speed to light literally (which from the looks of things, the word can be used for), or that it's a simile and is comparing his speed to light non-literally. However, if we're saying the Mifune statement is still fine, then it would be consistent for him to actually be on that level of speed. So with other context supporting it, it might be fair to interpret it as a literal comparison.
Like for example, one of the example sentences where it's used is "She is like Mona Lisa, always smiling."
Which isn't non-literal or anything, so the word can be used either way

"with speed like light"
Even interpreting it as a simile, wouldn't the simile in this case be that his speed is like light, but he is not actually light?

The way similes work is that you're comparing two things in a specific way, but they aren't actually the same thing. Like if you said "he is very kind, like an angel", you're comparing the person to an angel in terms of kindness, but they aren't actually an angel, they're just similarly kind. In the case of Ay, it would be comparing his lariat to light in terms of speed, but his lariat isn't actually light, they're just similarly fast.


So essentially light speed swing for mifune. Light speed Raikage requires discussion on the validity of the statement.
 
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Japanese/English grammar can be waaaayyyyyy more brain boggling then mathematics on this site.
My experience on recent Xenoverse downgrades proved that to me.
This is like some Batman lvls of research(another similie) hehe..

I think I can accept speed of light for both characters.

Also Cyber whipping out CRTs like a madman...
 
if i may. raikage being LS wouldn't neccesarily break anything, considering he could survive the ls transmission technique. Granted it was from durability.
 
And this thread is a mistake, completely wrong timing. Anyone who doesn't know anything about Naruto could come here and just say that both statements are hyperbole or any nonsense like that. We have the Light Fang thread on right now. The chance of this being rejected is high.
 
In the case of the Issen scan, are referring exclusively to Mifune or to all samurai?. Whatever the answer, I agree with the OP, and also with you explanation of Lariat, and I also think that if Issen were accepted as SoL, Lariat's statment could also be used.
 
Regarding A and Bee's Lariat, their technique's case is more of what Cyber pointed out as them attacking (charging) with speed like that of light. It's not as more direct as the Issen slash attack highlighted in the Mifune scan or Haku's, who was repeated twice in theirs (not counting other factors that earned them SoL).

It wouldn't necessarily break anything if Issen is SoL, but I don't quite take its description as direct-ish as the above two cases.
 
Regarding A and Bee's Lariat, their technique's case is more of what Cyber pointed out as them attacking (charging) with speed like that of light. It's not as more direct as the Issen slash attack highlighted in the Mifune scan or Haku's, who was repeated twice in theirs (not counting other factors that earned them SoL).

It wouldn't necessarily break anything if Issen is SoL, but I don't quite take its description as direct-ish as the above two cases.
whats your take on the other interpretation of the quote i put in the op
 
whats your take on the other interpretation of the quote i put in the op
That would be what I would do if I saw and statements like this.

It could work if you do use it, but only in reasoning out what it could possibly mean or refer to.

In this case, saying A/Bee's Lariat is like light itself but not actually light would definitely require some extensive discussion should that route be taken. That's how I see it.
 
And this thread is a mistake, completely wrong timing. Anyone who doesn't know anything about Naruto could come here and just say that both statements are hyperbole or any nonsense like that. We have the Light Fang thread on right now. The chance of this being rejected is high.
Agree
 
In the case of the Issen scan, are referring exclusively to Mifune or to all samurai?. Whatever the answer, I agree with the OP, and also with you explanation of Lariat, and I also think that if Issen were accepted as SoL, Lariat's statment could also be used.
If all Samurai can Do issen at same speed its Would be an Outlier Since MS Sasuke could easily dodge it but couldn't even Match V2 Raikage Speed.

And For Raikage Lariat Stuff I disagree For that being Light speed, the Databook explain that Raikage Move So fast and Look like A light. For example we see a car that move Very fast we couldn't see the Body of the Car Just the light. So I think the databook talking about the Perspective Who's perceived Raikage Movement look like a Light.
 
If all Samurai can Do issen at same speed its Would be an Outlier Since MS Sasuke could easily dodge it but couldn't even Match V2 Raikage Speed.

And For Raikage Lariat Stuff I disagree For that being Light speed, the Databook explain that Raikage Move So fast and Look like A light. For example we see a car that move Very fast we couldn't see the Body of the Car Just the light. So I think the databook talking about the Perspective Who's perceived Raikage Movement look like a Light.
Agree with this
 
If all Samurai can Do issen at same speed its Would be an Outlier Since MS Sasuke could easily dodge it but couldn't even Match V2 Raikage Speed.

And For Raikage Lariat Stuff I disagree For that being Light speed, the Databook explain that Raikage Move So fast and Look like A light. For example we see a car that move Very fast we couldn't see the Body of the Car Just the light. So I think the databook talking about the Perspective Who's perceived Raikage Movement look like a Light.
its for mifune as specified by qliphoth.

as for raikage, that is one way to look at it if its gotoki normally. but it doesnt always mean that
 
its for mifune as specified by qliphoth.

as for raikage, that is one way to look at it if its gotoki normally. but it doesnt always mean that
I 100% Agree its just For Mifune.

If You had Something else to Support Raikage to Be Light Speed, can I take a Look?
 
Like for example, one of the example sentences where it's used is "She is like Mona Lisa, always smiling."
Which isn't non-literal or anything, so the word can be used either way

"with speed like light"
Even interpreting it as a simile, wouldn't the simile in this case be that his speed is like light, but he is not actually light?

The way similes work is that you're comparing two things in a specific way, but they aren't actually the same thing. Like if you said "he is very kind, like an angel", you're comparing the person to an angel in terms of kindness, but they aren't actually an angel, they're just similarly kind. In the case of Ay, it would be comparing his lariat to light in terms of speed, but his lariat isn't actually light, they're just similarly fast.
 
As the OP mentioned, we have more than one possibility in the case of Lariat, the case of Mifune is simple, it is a change that dosen't affect anyone other than himself, it will not cause scale problems.

The case of Lariat requires a longer debate and with more people, we have two possibilities and we need to accept one of them, the OP himself agreed with the possibility of putting this thread on hold until the end of the open threads and the Light Fang thread, i think this should really be done, I believe that many threads on the same verse and on similar subjects (Light Speed) maybe end up dividing the number of people among them...
 
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