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Norse's land cosmology - God of War

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Fixxed

Fixxed

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First about Yggdrasil or the world tree. I dont know why this tree cannot be low 1C

So the realm that is the 4D structure is sits in yggdrasil's branches it mean it embed in yggdrasil's branches and roots also yggdrasil root's it self is infinity in size

So we have a structure that embed the lower structure and make them infinitesimall in it or infinitely larger than the lower structure. And also the infinitely larger structure is only a root's of that tree, it mean the part or portion of the tree it self is infinitely larger than the realm. In this case the problem of size is clear. Yggdrasil's structure is infinitely bigger in all parts of it than the realm or the 4D structure

Like the standard say, lower dimension is emded in higher dimension and higher dimension is infinitely larger than it
It pretty clear a higher dimension in the standard
A: One of the more straightforward ways to qualify for Tier 2 and up through higher dimensions is by affecting whole higher-dimensional universes which can embed the whole of lower-dimensional ones within themselves. For example: A cosmology where the entirety of our 3-dimensional universe is in fact a subset of a much greater 4-dimensional space, or generalizations of this same scenario to higher numbers of dimensions; i.e A cosmology where the four-dimensional spacetime continuum is just the infinitesimal surface of a 5-dimensional object, and etc.
Click to expand...
They can qualify, however, if said "higher plane" is defined as having a relationship of qualitative superiority over lower realms in one way or another, such as by perceiving them as literal fiction/unreality (or being comparatively more "real" in nature), encompassing them in an infinitesimal portion of itself, residing in a higher state of being altogether, and etc.
Click to expand...

Even the strands of Yggdrasil or just the part of yggdrasil is transcended or superior to space and time it self, it mean it transcend the realm. It say that it support all of creation and everthing will come back to yggdrasil, it mean everything is just what come from it

Creation, heating/tempered, and ragnarok, then recreation or simply the cycle of world is a mere part of yggdrasil (the birth, growth, death, and rebirth). We can see in here mimir stated that the grand cycle is much bigger than surtur him self, surtur is the one that brought heating and ragnarok and can burn down the world is still nothing compare to yggdrasil

So i want upgrade again the yggdrasil to low 1C, it clearly infinitely bigger in all parts or portion of it than the realm also the realm just embed in yggdrasil's parts, every parts of yggdrasil also transcend or superior to the space and time or the realm, all of creation and it concept of life (the cycle) still nothing and mere a part of the world tree

And i dont know why this is rejected before, i mean the infinite size structure that contain 4D structure is will become 2A structure
It like how tensura and old MGF have it 2A structure

●●●

And then about the endless timelines

It already stated in card game of god of war that there are endless future possibilities, the next word confirm that the every future is different timelines

In that it stated that the norns is just can see and predict what future or timeline that they reality will follow with, they cannot control the future, it is why they say to kratos
"only the choice that you make"
"That your choices are so predictable"

And more evident about the endless timelines is, the future is already happen and exist. It is why angroboda say
"Absord memories from the future"
so the future is already there just what future or timeline will you live in it, it depends on your chose, it is also why the prophecy is exist

In fact we see the norns is in the well of Urðr or urd, this is like what the card game say few years before even the game god of war ragnarok release. The norns travelled to the well of urd
Ragnarök, the cataclysmic event that will destroy the world, is coming. This may seem like an impossible thing to stop, but some people have decided that they are up to the task. They are the Norns, and they have travelled to the well of Fate, Urðr, to find a way. The swirling waters allow them to play through different scenarios of heroes, quests, victories, and defeats in order to locate a magical combination that will stop Ragnarök once and for all. Will they find a way in time?
Click to expand...

And also about the lake that look like common lake that cannot contain endless future, i think it not matter because it mystical lake
And also the lake or the well i think not contain the endless future but just a object the norns use for see the future, so it just like projector for the norns, they only for reveals the future

Conclusion:

- Yggdrasil will have it low 1C rating back because even a part or portion of it is infinitely bigger and also transcend or superior to the time and space or the realm

- The endless timelines will back

Agree: 9 (RaveeCPN, AKUTO123, EldemadeDityjon, Akagami_Shanks1, Quintessence_PE, ImmortalDread, LordGriffin1000, Diamentus, Planck69)

Disagree: 3 (KLOL506, DarkDragonMedeus, Lewis)

Neutral: 1 (Marvel_Champion_07, LephyrTheRevanchist <leaning to agree>)
 
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No.

Endless timelines are dead. Bury it. Well of Urd is a useless-ass lake in the game. SCREW YOU RAGNAROK.

The tree being infinitely bigger than the realms themselves means nothing if the direct size comparison isn't made like I already mentioned when I asked Ultima on that front, so we are shit out of luck on this. The "transcending" statement on its own is vague.

The Norns have no special powers on their own aside from making predictions that are more or less accurate... most of the time.

Surtr's story here is irrelevant to the tree's nature.

Hard disagree with OP.
 
KLOL506 said:
Surtr's story here is irrelevant to the tree's nature.
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Not necessarily.

Intention is to show that the realms follow a timeline higher than their own.
Cycle repeats endlessly inside Ygg, while it itself doesn't change.
The 4D realms are to Ygg in same way 3D humans or planets are to a 4D timeline.
That's clearly 5D.
 
KLOL506 said:
No.

Endless timelines are dead. Bury it. Well of Urd is a useless-ass lake in the game. SCREW YOU RAGNAROK.

The tree being infinitely bigger than the realms themselves means nothing if the direct size comparison isn't made like I already mentioned when I asked Ultima on that front, so we are shit out of luck on this. The "transcending" statement on its own is vague.

The Norns have no special powers on their own aside from making predictions that are more or less accurate... most of the time.

Surtr's story here is irrelevant to the tree's nature.

Hard disagree with OP.
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Infinitely larger than a 4D is only a root's of yggrasil, just a part or portion of that, the standard say if the structure encompasses lower structure as a infinitesimall portion of it, it can be higher structure

And about the lake or well, i dont even think it contain endless timelines, i mean it just a object for the norns for see the endless timelines, just a projector
 
Also again, in this case the realms being infinitely smaller than Ygg doesn't mean much without that size comparison statement, I can bring up Ultima's talk again if you wish.
 
Fixxed said:
Infinitely larger than a 4D is only a root's of yggrasil, just a part or portion of that, the standard say if the structure encompasses lower structure as a infinitesimall portion of it, it can be higher structure
Click to expand...
Without the size comparison statement, you can't get Tier 1 outta this.

Fixxed said:
And about the lake or well, i dont even think it contain endless timelines, i mean it just a object for the norns for see the endless timelines, just a projector
Click to expand...
They... don't. They're just NEETs that make incredibly accurate predictions most of the time until Kratos proves their asses wrong. They don't have any of the bullshit hax that the Greek Sisters of Fate had.
 
Neutral to this. A few things I will point out;

Stop coping over the Well of Urd. It used to be a 2-A structure and then it was retconned by God of War: Ragnarok. It's now just an lake beneath which the Norns live and foretell the future. It's no longer at the base of the Yggdrasil, it no longer holds timelines that the Norns can affect etc.

I do agree with Yggdrasil having a higher form of time than that of the Nine Realms, considering this time-flow is what the cycle of creation and destruction of the Nine Realms follow, not to mention the Realms are their own space-times yet Ymir himself was still bound by time.

The "size comparison statement" stuff is honestly getting old. 70% of Tier 1 doesn't have it or seem to be bothered by the lack thereof. Whether Ultima is still applying that standard to the rest of the site and God of War is what reminded him or something, I dunno. But we should really stop parroting it like it's gospel.
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Not necessarily.

Intention is to show that the realms follow a timeline higher than their own.
Cycle repeats endlessly inside Ygg, while it itself doesn't change.
The 4D realms are to Ygg in same way 3D humans or planets are to a 4D timeline.
That's clearly 5D.
Click to expand...
That argument would work if the tree also had "higher level of existence" and "higher power" statements going along with it. We don't. That is our only grief.
 
Planck69 said:
The "size comparison statement" stuff is honestly getting old. 70% of Tier 1 doesn't have it or seem to be bothered by the lack thereof. Whether Ultima is still applying that standard to the rest of the site and God of War is what reminded him or something, I dunno. But we should really stop parroting it like it's gospel.
Click to expand...
Then we need a CRT to settle the size stuff for Tier 1 as a whole before we try anything else. Doubtful it will pass tho.
 
KLOL506 said:
Without the size comparison statement, you can't get Tier 1 outta this.
Click to expand...
Mhmhmh.... i think thats why i bring the argument about the roots that being infinitely bigger than the realms is just a part or portion for yggdrasil
KLOL506 said:
They... don't. They're just NEETs that make incredibly accurate predictions most of the time until Kratos proves their asses wrong. They don't have any of the bullshit hax that the Greek Sisters of Fate had.
Click to expand...
Yeah i literaly say they dont control fate, they just predict it
In fact the future is already happen and exist, thats why they just can see it and make some prophechy
 
Also for the love of god, people, please don't use the "infinite-sized branches are just metaphorical" argument. That is simply not true under any circumstance whatsoever, we've been through that shit several times in a row.
 
Fixxed said:
Mhmhmh.... i think thats why i bring the argument about the roots that being infinitely bigger than the realms is just a part or portion for yggdrasil
Click to expand...
Does. Not. Matter. You still need the statement like "Considers this shit as infinitesimal to its own existence" or "Is infinitely larger than the realms it encompasses". It needs to play that much closer to the chest to fly. And even then it's 50/50.

Fixxed said:
Yeah i literaly say they dont control fate, they just predict it
In fact the future is already happen and exist, thats why they just can see it and make some prophechy
Click to expand...
They don't use any magical powers to do so, they're just stupidly smart.
 
KLOL506 said:
That argument would work if the tree also had "higher level of existence" and "higher power" statements going along with it. We don't. That is our only grief.
Click to expand...
No spoonfeeding is required.
We don't need all that, especially in a temporal aspect. They aren't even related.

Most verses out there would lusting for proof as good as our own for hypertimelines that actually are higher than 4D.
 
KLOL506 said:
Does. Not. Matter. You still need the statement like "Considers this shit as infinitesimal to its own existence" or "Is infinitely larger than the realms it encompasses". It needs to play that much closer to the chest to fly. And even then it's 50/50.
Click to expand...
.....You really don't though. Like, legitimately, look through Low 1-C for a bit. Just like 15 minutes. You'll be surprised.

I'm not even particularly expectant for Low 1-C Ygg I just find this weird standard we hold ourselves to dumb.
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
No spoonfeeding is required.
We don't need all that, especially in a temporal aspect. They aren't even related.
Click to expand...
The infinitesimal portion doesn't need any temporal aspect mentions tho?

GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Most verses out there would lusting for proof as good as our own for hypertimelines that actually are higher than 4D.
Click to expand...
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, woe be on us that our most coveted pieces of proof just got retconned with the release of Ragnarok.
 
Planck69 said:
.....You really don't though. Like, legitimately, look through Low 1-C for a bit. Just like 15 minutes. You'll be surprised.

I'm not even particularly expectant for Low 1-C Ygg I just find this weird standard we hold ourselves to dumb.
Click to expand...
I guess I can just tag him here or repeat what he said in Discord if that's what you fancy.
 
KLOL506 said:
Does. Not. Matter. You still need the statement like "Considers this shit as infinitesimal to its own existence" or "Is infinitely larger than the realms it encompasses". It needs to play that much closer to the chest to fly. And even then it's 50/50.
Click to expand...
Isnt that.... not necessary.... i mean it already prove infinitely larger than something, and we must have some strictly, clear, and boring statement for just say "compare to it existence", isnt that what the proof exactly mean?
 
Fixxed said:
Isnt that.... not necessary.... i mean it already prove infinitely larger than something, and we must have some strictly, clear, and boring statement for just say "compare to it existence", isnt that what the proof exactly mean?
Click to expand...
Like I said, it really isn't enough to just state the size of the object and then not actually compare it to the stuff it's encompassing.
 
Planck69 said:
But honestly, it's whatever. I'll call the staff and link the current Explanation page section on Yggdrasil for them to read and make their conclusions on.

Everything currently accepted about Yggdrasil.

@Maverick_Zero_X @Elizhaa @Celestial_Pegasus @SamanPatou @Abstractions @Theglassman12, @LordTracer @LephyrTheRevanchist

Any input would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
I tagged everyone on that list except Abstractions, Celestial and Saman. Not sure if the latter is interested enough to make a comment on the topic, but oh well.
 
One more thing.

PLEASE DO NOT USE THE MID-POINT ARGUMENTS FOR THE TREE. IT ONLY REFERS TO MIDGARD'S POSITION ON THE TREE, AND IT DOES NOT HAVE ANY BEARING ON THE SIZE OF THE TREE ITSELF GIVEN THEIR SIZE DIFFERENCE AS PER THE NOVEL.

ALSO PLEASE DO NOT USE THE CARD GAME LIKE IT HAS ANY RELEVANCE TO THE ACTUAL TOPIC AT HAND BECAUSE THAT ISN'T USUALLY REQUIRED FOR THERE TO BE TIER 1 BS TO TAKE PLACE.
 
KLOL506 said:
Like I said, it really isn't enough to just state the size of the object and then not actually compare it to the stuff it's encompassing.
Click to expand...
Yeah bruh i just think it weird... but let the staff doing they job, i will wait for the staff input
 
I'm just gonna drop what Ultima said and let staff decide on that front:

Me: Ultima, Do you get Low 1-C for encompassing and being infinitely larger than a Low 2-C structure, or a 2-A structure? Because from what the current standards say it's only about encompassing a 4-D structure. It does not specify what kind of 4-D structure it's talking about, Low 2-C or 2-A.

Ultima: Muddy territory, frankly. 2-A is generally a much safer starting point for that, since we don't really accept that there any any jumps in size that are higher than "baseline" 2-A but smaller than Low 1-C (See the standards on the destruction of multiple infinite multiverses); the smallest skip in size at that point is just Tier 1. Meanwhile with Low 2-C we are forced to include a bunch of shit between it and Low 1-C.

Me: I see.

Ultima: Although speaking in terms of raw logic, then I'll note that encompassing an infinitely large structure alone isn't necessarily an infinity higher than it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_line_(topology). Take this thing, for example.
In a way you can say that, compared to the real number line, it extends a lot further.
Since the real number line is made of a countably infinite amount of intervals placed side-by-side (Intervals like, say, [0,1] or [1,2], I'm sure you know what I'm talking about)
While the long line is made of an uncountably infinite number of such intervals.
Despite that "increased" length the long line is still a 1-dimensional object.
It's not 2-D.
So, there being something that says "Yeah the structure is, in fact, larger than what it encompasses" is important.

Me: So there needs to be a direct statement that is akin to like "This structure views those structures as X-sized (Far smaller than it)/insignificant" or similar is absolutely required then? A structure being deemed infinitely big and it encompassing realms but there being no direct comparison like the above wouldn't qualify it for Tier 1, correct?

Ultima: Yeah.

@Maverick_Zero_X @LordGriffin1000 @Elizhaa @Celestial_Pegasus @SamanPatou @Abstractions @Theglassman12 @Emirp sumitpo @LordTracer @LephyrTheRevanchist Alright staff, make conclusions.

 
I think we've tagged enough staff members as is, best not to annoy them too much, plus we have much of our work cut out here.
 
I rejected it a couple times but apparently that wasn't enough and they won't be patient enough to wait for the day the other games finally make this un-rejected, which is to say, not anytime soon.

So I put mine and Ultima's discussion on it and I have tagged staff. At this point, only their conclusions will determine whether I have a discussion rule made on the topic or not (Until of course the newer games say something about it that makes dreams come true). Us non-red staff won't cut it anymore.
 
Robo said:
the card argument is rejected

its just yggdrassil that needs discussion
Click to expand...
Nah, I rejected the Yggdrasil Tier 1 rejections as well last time around when the card game wasn't at play this time around. I even asked Ultima regarding everything about it.

At this point, nothing but staff evaluation will finalize our stance on the subject until and unless future games do something about it.
 
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