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"Nice of the Death Priest to invite us over for a battle, Aye Luigi?" II (Illumination Mario VS PADZ Cursed Dragon) (Grace)

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XitSign

XitSign

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So a while back I did a Hotel Mario VS Cursed Dragon fight that fell through because of a PAD upgrade, but low and behold Illumination Mario stepped up into the same tier so WE'RE DOING IT AGAIN BABY.

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Illumination Movie Mario VS Cursed Dragon, Mario already has the Super Star while the Cursed Dragon is the PADZ era version, both are City Block level+ (91.52564 tons of TNT Vs. 79.13614 tons of TNT), speed is equalized and fight starts at 5 meters.

Mario Speedruns the Ruined Kingdom: 0

The Technicolor Dragon Trashes Brooklyn: 7

Puzzle and Dragons: Super Mario Edition gets a Sequel: 0
 
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Breath attacks, likely while trying to use Orbs to make them stronger. They will generally try to use their Breath Attack/Energy Projection as much as they can, they spam them a lot.
 
Technically it's darkness, but no real special properties.

It can be boosted by Orbs and Combos for Damage Boosting potential. And 'Sworn Enemy' becomes stronger the more damage Cursed Dragon takes, but beyond having ways to damage boost it's a very vanilla attack.
 
With this knowledge imma say Mario takes it more times the not.

Mario resists fire manip, has the AP advantage, is a better h2h combatant, has acrobatics to potentially avoid the fire, and technically has the LS advantage.

Voting Mario for now
 
The breath is darkness manipulation, not fire Manipulation.

The AP difference is 1.19x which is pretty low, especially since Cursed Dragon can Damage Boosts with Orbs, Combos, and whenever it loses HP.

And Cursed Dragon does have forcefields and healing options that haven't been mentioned yet.
 
XitSign said:
The breath is darkness manipulation, not fire Manipulation.
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Fair enough but Mario can potentially maneuver his away around him via acrobatics and superior combat ability.

XitSign said:
The AP difference is 1.19x which is pretty low, especially since Cursed Dragon can Damage Boosts with Orbs, Combos, and whenever it loses HP.
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Tbh it’ll only make a difference when the Cursed Dragon gets low on health. Mario kinda bum rushed through Bowser and his entire army with ease and Bowser had a hard time even keeping up. I doubt Cursed Dragon can get that many hits in anyway considering it doesn’t seem to have any moves outside of its breath attack, damage boosts, and its healing and forcefield.
XitSign said:
And Cursed Dragon does have forcefields and healing options that haven't been mentioned yet.
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Sure but it’s just prolonging a fight that the Cursed Dragon doesn’t really have the best skill set for imo. I just don’t see how Dragon puts Mario down permanently before Mario outmaneuvers him similarly to how he did with Bowser.
 
Speed is equalized, which is something to keep in mind as well. Part of Mario's beatdown with the Superstar was that he and Luigi were blitzing with it. While he still has acrobatics skill here, he doesn't have a speed advantage like he did at the time

The Mass Attack likely will also make dodges harder, considering it's both an AOE and a Damage boosted attack. Especially with speed equalized.

And Mario is on a time limit here too. Speed is equal, he's fighting a near equal in AP and fighting alone, and his opponent can heal and block attacks with a forcefield. He doesn't have a lot of time to waste with Cursed Dragon dragging things out.
 
Cursed Dragon technically also has Resolve, which can sometimes keep it going when it should go down. It's luck based in this version, so not consistant, but if it triggers it is another thing that will prolong this slog and give Cursed Dragon more chances to heal or block attacks too.
 
XitSign said:
Speed is equalized, which is something to keep in mind as well. Part of Mario's beatdown with the Superstar was that he and Luigi were blitzing with it. While he still has acrobatics skill here, he doesn't have a speed advantage like he did at the time.
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I was mainly trying to say that Mario has mobility advantage and ways to exploit Dragon in this situation even with speed equalized. Do agree with you tho.

XitSign said:
The Mass Attack likely will also make dodges harder, considering it's both an AOE and a Damage boosted attack. Especially with speed equalized.
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I’m willing to say that Mario can take a blow from that and be fine considering how difficult of a time Dragon will have getting a hit in on him with any of his other attacks
XitSign said:
And Mario is on a time limit here too. Speed is equal, he's fighting a near equal in AP and fighting alone, and his opponent can heal and block attacks with a forcefield. He doesn't have a lot of time to waste with Cursed Dragon dragging things out.
Click to expand...
Sure but I’m willing to bet Mario can end the fight within his time limit similarly to how he did with Bowser. From what it seems, Dragons best options is breath attack spam, heal, and force field + damage boost. Mario can dodge 90% of that while going into h2h combat with him which he seemingly doesn’t have an answer physically speaking other than “fire blast and force field go brrr” which Mario can likely avoid. It just seems like we’re putting a fairly competent brawler with acrobatic ability against a fire spammer with some healing and forcefield without any way to counter Mario’s AP (other than boosting its power), LS, intelligence, skill on combat, mobility advantage, etc.

XitSign said:
Cursed Dragon technically also has Resolve, which can sometimes keep it going when it should go down. It's luck based in this version, so not consistant, but if it triggers it is another thing that will prolong this slog and give Cursed Dragon more chances to heal or block attacks too.
Click to expand...
Like I said before, Mario will likely end the fight before the Dragon starts dragging it out as:

“They typically don't show much strategy while fighting, instead favoring overwhelming force.”

I imagine it’ll be distracted and focused on overwhelming Mario with its fire rather than formulating ways to manage to its health in a certain time limit with no prior knowledge or need to do so.
 
The_Almighty_Wholesome said:
without any way to counter Mario’s AP (other than boosting its power)
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I think this is probably my biggest problem with how you're structuring the argument and why I keep bringing things up. It's a difference of 1.15x. Even arguing Mario upscaling that value, that's a negligible difference, this isn't the same kind of matchup he would've had with Bowser at all.

Mario had a speed advantage, an ally, and was generally stomping Bowser based on how he was ragdolled and couldn't hurt the brothers. His speed here is equal, he's fighting alone, and Cursed Dragon is very nearly Mario's physical equal. Regardless of any other abilities thrown into the work, Mario has to deal a LOT more damage this time around to score a win.

Our page seems to give Mario vaguely a minute under this condition, which adds a lot of pressure. That's not a lot of time.. Even if Cursed Dragon doesn't know that and prefers being overly aggressive, Orb Comboing is a common strategy for all PAD creatures and will allow it to heal or make shields while attacking at the same time, there's no reason it won't do it for it's own survival. Orb Comboing is a casual thing all PAD monsters can easily do, and it still favors an aggressive combat style since any combos will trigger Damage Boosting.

LS is questionably useful due to the size of the Cursed Dragon series of monsters, while Mario might be able to use it to push back claw swipes at close range since Cursed Dragon has no LS feats of it's own, simply being Superhuman likely isn't going to as easily send Cursed Dragon flying or reeling due to the size, and thus the weight advantage it has on Mario, or Bowser at that.

Basically, it feels like the backbone of what you're arguing treats Cursed Dragon as if he's in the same position Bowser was in, but Cursed Dragon can take more punishment, deal out equal punishment, technically has more versatility than Bowser did at the time, and for multiple reasons Mario's position is less favorable than it was during that fight.

And don't misunderstand. I've counted your vote! I realized I never made that clear. I just have some issues about the argument's structure.
 
I gotta hand it to Cursed Dragon

while the guy is nearly on par with Mario physically, he's also got damage boosting orbs, healing, and forcefields to wear down the incredibly short time limit Mario has right now

Mario is definitely nimble and acrobatic enough to evade a majority of Cursed Dragon's attacks, but a negligible AP advantage and Acrobatics seem to be his only crutches here

a battle of attrition just ain't gonna work in his favor in the long run, so once his time is up, Mario will be getting bullied
 
XitSign said:
I think this is probably my biggest problem with how you're structuring the argument and why I keep bringing things up. It's a difference of 1.15x. Even arguing Mario upscaling that value, that's a negligible difference, this isn't the same kind of matchup he would've had with Bowser at all.

Mario had a speed advantage, an ally, and was generally stomping Bowser based on how he was ragdolled and couldn't hurt the brothers. His speed here is equal, he's fighting alone, and Cursed Dragon is very nearly Mario's physical equal. Regardless of any other abilities thrown into the work, Mario has to deal a LOT more damage this time around to score a win.

Our page seems to give Mario vaguely a minute under this condition, which adds a lot of pressure. That's not a lot of time.. Even if Cursed Dragon doesn't know that and prefers being overly aggressive, Orb Comboing is a common strategy for all PAD creatures and will allow it to heal or make shields while attacking at the same time, there's no reason it won't do it for it's own survival. Orb Comboing is a casual thing all PAD monsters can easily do, and it still favors an aggressive combat style since any combos will trigger Damage Boosting.

LS is questionably useful due to the size of the Cursed Dragon series of monsters, while Mario might be able to use it to push back claw swipes at close range since Cursed Dragon has no LS feats of it's own, simply being Superhuman likely isn't going to as easily send Cursed Dragon flying or reeling due to the size, and thus the weight advantage it has on Mario, or Bowser at that.

Basically, it feels like the backbone of what you're arguing treats Cursed Dragon as if he's in the same position Bowser was in, but Cursed Dragon can take more punishment, deal out equal punishment, technically has more versatility than Bowser did at the time, and for multiple reasons Mario's position is less favorable than it was during that fight.

And don't misunderstand. I've counted your vote! I realized I never made that clear. I just have some issues about the argument's structure.
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You know what, I’ve gotta hand it to you. You’ve completely changed my mind in a very descriptive and easy way to understand, props to you man. Dragon FRA
 
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