Naruto vs goku, but universally fair now(Grace)

[Maitreya]

yeah, after fighting for a while and getting out of options

….when he started to get pressed yeah…

can you give an example of goku using kaioken at max power when kind of pressed? for goku none of the rasen shuriken would look to dangerous, neither would the frog strike, why would he go all out when he can feel that naruto is relative to him in strength?

Against Jiren? Against Hit? Most times Goku’s used Kaioken in conjunction with blue it was x10 and x20 respectively. And like you said Goku can feel Naruto’s energy and intent so idk why he would hold back when Naruto is using lethal moves against him. The fact that Naruto is using the rasenshuriken instead of a plain rasengan in the first place is a more lethal move and indication of his intent.

yeah good point, but what about a barrage? the kamehameha is not big enough to cover a barrage is it?

….Goku can fire a barrage of ki blasts too. Also about that kamehameha size…

the frog strike would look dangerous to him, it is just a punch from his perspective

Goku can feel intent and sense vibrations in the air even when he’s unable to see things.

i know that he would use the kaioken, i am just arguing that he wouldn't use the maximum of of the bat when slightly pressed

Even going x10 still makes him one shotting everyone near him and that is both a figure he uses consistently and not his full power so even then he’d still power himself enough to comfortably take care of Naruto since again…he can feel the energy difference between them.

read above, i never said that he wouldn't use the kaioken

But you’re saying he would nerf himself to a level Naruto handles?

a barrage of rasen shuriken, or an aoe rasen shuriken this aoe to be exact would be fatal

Goku literally has just as comparable aoe if not larger and can send barrage of attacks as well. Also he can teleport so I don’t see how any of this is effective against Goku.

 

[Maitreya]

If Naruto starts spamming thousands of Shadow clones I have actually no idea why Goku wouldn’t respond with going kaioken x20 and one shotting everyone in the vicinity.

That is severe lethal intent that Goku should be smart enough to act accordingly.

 

[Da3ggman]

as sba he can't since there is not anyone for him to teleport to, since that would be considered outside help, he only has naruto here

It doesn't even need to be a person, it just has to have energy that he can read. Since everything has energy, he could just teleport to one of those big ass tree's in California. But what I was originally referring to was him teleporting behind Naruto as he fires his attack, since it leaves him wide open.

 

[omegabronic]

….when he started to get pressed yeah…

he was getting pressed before hand, he only used it when he had no other option, how is this comparable to this match?

Against Jiren? Against Hit? Most times Goku’s used Kaioken in conjunction with blue it was x10 and x20 respectively.

the first was someone that goku could feel that it was too powerful to hold back, and the other was an experiment to counter an specific ability, most times he uses kaioken we don't how much he is using, and when we know it is because he felt the enemy's power and saw that he needed to use that much power, here naruto is relative to him in power

And like you said Goku can feel Naruto’s energy and intent so idk why he would hold back when Naruto is using lethal moves against him.

1 why would he use times 20 when he can feel that naruto is relative to his blue state already?
2 the intent is to harm and kill, like most enemies goku fought, hell not even when he knew that the enemy was trying to kill him he used the kaioken at maximum or at all
3 he wouldn't know that the moves are lethal until they hit him

The fact that Naruto is using the rasenshuriken instead of a plain rasengan in the first place is a more lethal move and indication of his intent.

goku has no idea of what a rasengan is, so this point is moot

….Goku can fire a barrage of ki blasts too. Also about that kamehameha size…

this is dbs manga goku, not the one used for this match, and also what am i supposed to be seeing here?

Goku can feel intent and sense vibrations in the air even when he’s unable to see things.

so? unless you are saying that goku could dodge all of naruto's punches when both have the same speed here, i don't really see your point

Even going x10 still makes him one shotting everyone near him and that is both a figure he uses consistently and not his full power so even then he’d still power himself enough to comfortably take care of Naruto since again…he can feel the energy difference between them.

which is why he would likely not do that and use a lesser version to test naruto to see if he can do more and give him a more fun fight

But you’re saying he would nerf himself to a level Naruto handles?

he likes to test his opponents to have fun in a fight

Goku literally has just as comparable aoe if not larger and can send barrage of attacks as well. Also he can teleport so I don’t see how any of this is effective against Goku.

all of that is rasen shuriken, aka durability negation, goku having this aoe is not much relevant for this point, and also he would teleport to where? there is only naruto here, anyone else would be considered outside help, which is against sba

It doesn't even need to be a person, it just has to have energy that he can read. Since everything has energy, he could just teleport to one of those big ass tree's in California.

no, it needs to be a living being, or else he could have teleported cell to a deserted planet for example, he needs to sense someone's ki

But what I was originally referring to was him teleporting behind Naruto as he fires his attack, since it leaves him wide open.

and then he gets caught in the blast, plus naruto could feel him with his own extrasensory perception and counter attack

 

[Da3ggman]

no, it needs to be a living being, or else he could have teleported cell to a deserted planet for example, he needs to sense someone's ki

Yeah, living being. A tree is a living being. As I said before, It doesn't have to be a person. Also, the reason he teleported cell to King Kai's planet was that it was the first place he thought of and sensed.

and then he gets caught in the blast, plus naruto could feel him with his own extrasensory perception and counter attack

Naruto doesn't get caught in his own blast, or else he'd be dead by now. So if Goku teleports behind Naruto, he wouldn't get hit. Also, Naruto can't just instantly turn off the giant orbs in his hands, so he'd be caught with his pants down.

 

[TauanVictor]

naruto's Resurrection, Statistics Amplification, Healing and Fate Manipulation are restricted

Because of this restriction, this should be closed or transferred to Fun and Games.

 

[omegabronic]

Yeah, living being. A tree is a living being. As I said before, It doesn't have to be a person.

prove that, also to teleport great distances he need to concentrate, which he will not have time for it here, and the blast would not be expected making it even less likely for him to have time to concentrate

Also, the reason he teleported cell to King Kai's planet was that it was the first place he thought of and sensed.

a random tree in a desserted planet would be easier to feel than a guy in another dimension in a small planet

Naruto doesn't get caught in his own blast, or else he'd be dead by now.

no, he just thanks the blast or heals from it

So if Goku teleports behind Naruto, he wouldn't get hit.

have you not saw the size of the blast?

Also, Naruto can't just instantly turn off the giant orbs in his hands, so he'd be caught with his pants down.

he can just stretch kurama's hands behind him, also the orbs would not be there anymore as he lauched them already

 

[omegabronic]

Because of this restriction, this should be closed or transferred to Fun and Games.

no, abilities listed as "possible" can be restricted

 

[Maitreya]

he was getting pressed before hand, he only used it when he had no other option, how is this comparable to this match?

…no, literally like the minute he was being pushed back he used Kaioken. Keep in mind using Kaioken was more dangerous then too cause he didn’t perfect it yet and he busted out x10 when he was getting pressed by Hit’s ability.

the first was someone that goku could feel that it was too powerful to hold back, and the other was an experiment to counter an specific ability, most times he uses kaioken we don't how much he is using, and when we know it is because he felt the enemy's power and saw that he needed to use that much power, here naruto is relative to him in power

Yeah but you’re also saying Naruto would spam finishing moves and thousand shadow clones. Goku can see that and respond accordingly by increasing his power to a point where he outclasses Naruto totally cause he’s literally being faced with murderous intent.

1 why would he use times 20 when he can feel that naruto is relative to his blue state already?
2 the intent is to harm and kill, like most enemies goku fought, hell not even when he knew that the enemy was trying to kill him he used the kaioken at maximum or at all
3 he wouldn't know that the moves are lethal until they hit him

1) Because he can feel Naruto’s intent in wanting to Bonnard him with extremely high end attacks like huge aoe and thousand shadow clones. Goku can feel that and act accordingly and since he can feel the difference between strengths he’d just make himself strong enough to outclass Naruto regardless.
2) So why in God’s name are you assuming Goku wouldn’t be busting out whatever level kaioken he needs to one shot whatever Naruto throws at him when he’s apparently throwing literal finishers like your citing?
3) Yeah he would because he has instinctive reaction. Even before attacks make contact with him he knows they’re lethal like when he fought Beerus.

goku has no idea of what a rasengan is, so this point is moot

That doesn’t matter. Goku can feel intent and Naruto would be using more lethal intent in option to use a Rasenshuriken rather than a Rasengan. Goku can feel that and act accordingly.

this is dbs manga goku, not the one used for this match, and also what am i supposed to be seeing here?

That was Goku firing a kamehameha against Beerus that was bigger than the planet. And either way Goku has literally universal range with the shockwaves of his own attacks.

so? unless you are saying that goku could dodge all of naruto's punches when both have the same speed here, i don't really see your point

….Yeah I don’t see why not. Dude was literally predicting a guy that would disappear from reality for a fraction of a second. He’s pretty good at fighting. Or rather I don’t see why Goku wouldn’t just increase himself to the point where he can dodge whatever Naruto throws at him the minute he gets pressed.

which is why he would likely not do that and use a lesser version to test naruto to see if he can do more and give him a more fun fight

You understand he’d still feel the difference between him and Naruto and would make himself whatever strength necessary to comfortable deal with him right?

And what you’re saying Goku’s gonna be treating this fight like it’s a spar with Piccolo when Naruto literally throwing out finishing murdering moves towards him? He’s obviously going to take this more seriously if he’s feeling Naruto trying to kill him like he does with every other opponent that tries to kill him outright.

he likes to test his opponents to have fun in a fight

You’re saying Goku’s gonna be treating this like a spar while Naruto’s gonna be trying to murder him….Yeah I think Goku would act more like he does against Nappa…or Recoom…or Frieza or Cell or Buu or Beerus in that he would aim to take his opponent down when his opponent is trying to murder him.

Not just treat this like a friendly spar.

all of that is rasen shuriken, aka durability negation, goku having this aoe is not much relevant for this point, and also he would teleport to where? there is only naruto here, anyone else would be considered outside help, which is against sba

So what? That doesn’t matter if nothing Naruto throws can hit Goku in the first place. Either by countering with his own aoe ki blasts or simply avoiding all together.

Also goku can teleport to anything that has a life force which includes thing like simple animals or plant life.

Trying to restrict instant transmission is pretty cringe too ngl.

no, it needs to be a living being, or else he could have teleported cell to a deserted planet for example, he needs to sense someone's ki

This includes animal life, and plant life you realize that right? It’s just whatever he’s able to sense with for ki. And Cell? He said he teleported to King Kai’s place cause that was the first place that came to mind.

and then he gets caught in the blast, plus naruto could feel him with his own extrasensory perception and counter attack

Goku has resistance to extra sensory perception so that’s a no no. And why would Naruto actively get caught in his own attacks? That’s not something he does in character.

 

[omegabronic]

…no, literally like the minute he was being pushed back he used Kaioken.

because he saw no other option to counter hit's thecnique, he had analized hit beforehand

Keep in mind using Kaioken was more dangerous then too cause he didn’t perfect it yet and he busted out x10 when he was getting pressed by Hit’s ability.

because he saw what the ability did and saw no other way to counter it, here he would have no reason to assume that naruto has an dangerous ability like that

Yeah but you’re also saying Naruto would spam finishing moves and thousand shadow clones.

not thousand shadow clones, a dozen is what he usually uses, and the rasen shuriken is very comon for him to use, but he would start by hand to hand to hand combat

Goku can see that and respond accordingly by increasing his power to a point where he outclasses Naruto totally cause he’s literally being faced with murderous intent.

hit also had murder intent and yet goku didn't do that, he didn't even used the kaioken when hit was trying to kill him, show a normal circunstance where goku goes all out in the slightly sense of danger

1) Because he can feel Naruto’s intent in wanting to Bonnard him with extremely high end attacks like huge aoe and thousand shadow clones.

he can feel the intent of an attack, not what naruto wants to attack with or his strategy

Goku can feel that and act accordingly and since he can feel the difference between strengths he’d just make himself strong enough to outclass Naruto regardless.

as i said, it is unlikely for goku to go for a blitz level kaioken of the bat, he has no reason to go that high against someone as strong as him in his blue state

2) So why in God’s name are you assuming Goku wouldn’t be busting out whatever level kaioken he needs to one shot whatever Naruto throws at him when he’s apparently throwing literal finishers like your citing?

rasen shuriken is hardly a finisher, and the ones that are more likely to come first before goku decides to activate a blitz level kaioken, as not even against someone with killer intent he did that

3) Yeah he would because he has instinctive reaction. Even before attacks make contact with him he knows they’re lethal like when he fought Beerus.

good point, still feeling and being able to doge is another thing, specially the frog strike in which goku would be very close to naruto

That doesn’t matter. Goku can feel intent and Naruto would be using more lethal intent in option to use a Rasenshuriken rather than a Rasengan. Goku can feel that and act accordingly.

not really, rasen shuriken is used as much, if not more than the rasengan in this key

That was Goku firing a kamehameha against Beerus that was bigger than the planet. And either way Goku has literally universal range with the shockwaves of his own attacks.

still i don't see the point in goku's range here?

….Yeah I don’t see why not. Dude was literally predicting a guy that would disappear from reality for a fraction of a second. He’s pretty good at fighting. Or rather I don’t see why Goku wouldn’t just increase himself to the point where he can dodge whatever Naruto throws at him the minute he gets pressed.

they would both be trowing hands, the moment a frog strike hits it will be too late for him to do that, specially with clones

You understand he’d still feel the difference between him and Naruto and would make himself whatever strength necessary to comfortable deal with him right?

yes, which a kaioken times 2 or 3 is more than enough

And what you’re saying Goku’s gonna be treating this fight like it’s a spar with Piccolo when Naruto literally throwing out finishing murdering moves towards him? He’s obviously going to take this more seriously if he’s feeling Naruto trying to kill him like he does with every other opponent that tries to kill him outright.

he is going to take it seriosly, but using kaioken at maximum is not part of that as he would still want to try and have fun, remember when hit was trying to murder goku? yeah he didn't use the kaioken even when pushed there

You’re saying Goku’s gonna be treating this like a spar while Naruto’s gonna be trying to murder him….Yeah I think Goku would act more like he does against Nappa…or Recoom…or Frieza or Cell or Buu or Beerus in that he would aim to take his opponent down when his opponent is trying to murder him.

two of those are fother that goku didn't saw as worth it and nappa even made him mad so not the case here, freeza made him extremely mad so not the case here, cell goku extended the fight so it ads to my point, buu was trying to destroy his planet and was a know threat that he was warned so not the case here, and beerus was kind of the same as buu, so not the case here
also remember when hit was trying to murder goku? yeah he didn't use the kaioken even when pushed there

So what? That doesn’t matter if nothing Naruto throws can hit Goku in the first place. Either by countering with his own aoe ki blasts or simply avoiding all together.

if it prolongs too long with naruto not hitting he would likely use some of his other abilities, like genjutsu or paralisis or just an aoe rasen shuriken

Also goku can teleport to anything that has a life force which includes thing like simple animals or plant life.

any other being would be considered outside help, and where is the proof that he can teleport using plants? also he would not expect the blast to be too large and it likely not be enough time for him to teleport

Trying to restrict instant transmission is pretty cringe too ngl.

who is restricting?

This includes animal life, and plant life you realize that right? It’s just whatever he’s able to sense with for ki. And Cell? He said he teleported to King Kai’s place cause that was the first place that came to mind.

1 show me that plants can be used as well, we never saw him doing it to them
2 if he could do to plants he could have teleported to any planet with plant life, it would have been easier to sense than a planet in another dimension

Goku has resistance to extra sensory perception so that’s a no no.

he can feel people through their intent to harm

And why would Naruto actively get caught in his own attacks? That’s not something he does in character.

yes it is, have you not saw the clips?

 

[omegabronic]

btw going to sleep now

 

[Maitreya]

because he saw no other option to counter hit's thecnique, he had analized hit beforehand

He was literally countering Hit’s technique prior. It’s when Hit started to keep getting better and overwhelm Goku that he chose to use it.

because he saw what the ability did and saw no other way to counter it, here he would have no reason to assume that naruto has an dangerous ability like that

Why wouldn’t he assume Naruto’s dangerous? Goku would consider him a threat because of the fact that Naruto is actively trying to kill himX

not thousand shadow clones, a dozen is what he usually uses, and the rasen shuriken is very comon for him to use, but he would start by hand to hand to hand combat

If he uses a dozen shadow clones I see no reason for Goku not to counter with Kaioken x whatever he needs to comfortably avoid all of them.

hit also had murder intent and yet goku didn't do that, he didn't even used the kaioken when hit was trying to kill him, show a normal circunstance where goku goes all out in the slightly sense of danger

You mean the instance where goku literally asked Hit himself to kill him? Yeah, that’s goku sparing with a person he actively knows. This is Naruto just trying to kill him so there’s no reason for Goku to treat Naruto with the same courtesy he treated his friend Hit when he personally asked him to attack his person.

he can feel the intent of an attack, not what naruto wants to attack with or his strategy

I never said as much?

as i said, it is unlikely for goku to go for a blitz level kaioken of the bat, he has no reason to go that high against someone as strong as him in his blue state

When someone starts throwing a dozen shadow clones or spamming out massive attacks is see no reason why he wouldn’t go blitz him with kaioken. Even a 2 or 3x Kaioken would be enough to blitz at that points

rasen shuriken is hardly a finisher, and the ones that are more likely to come first before goku decides to activate a blitz level kaioken, as not even against someone with killer intent he did that

So what Rasenshurikens you’re citing Goku can simply counter with ki blasts. And if Naruto decides to use his larger attacks goku can simply counter with activating Kaioken. I don’t see the issue here.

good point, still feeling and being able to doge is another thing, specially the frog strike in which goku would be very close to naruto

yeah Goku’s pretty adept at dodging so I don’t see why he wouldn’t.

not really, rasen shuriken is used as much, if not more than the rasengan in this key

This doesn’t hinder my point. Rasenshuriken is more lethal than rasengan, Naruto knows this ergo he uses more lethal intent with the rasenshuriken than the rasengan. Goku can feel that lethal intent.

still i don't see the point in goku's range here?

I’m asking how Naruto’s aoe would help him when Goku has similar if not larger aoe to Naruto with his own attacks.

they would both be trowing hands, the moment a frog strike hits it will be too late for him to do that, specially with clones

Why do you think Goku wouldn’t bust out Kaioken the minute Naruto decides to try and press him with a dozen clones?

yes, which a kaioken times 2 or 3 is more than enough

Why not 4x or 5x or however many times Goku likes to be comfortable enough to always have an advantage over Naruto? You’re making Goku simply lower himself to a level Naruto can handle so Naruto can kill him when he could just make himself comfortable enough so that he can deal with Naruto easily.

Even a Kaioken x3 would mean enough for him to blitz pretty sure too.

he is going to take it seriosly, but using kaioken at maximum is not part of that as he would still want to try and have fun, remember when hit was trying to murder goku? yeah he didn't use the kaioken even when pushed there

He’s not gonna be playing around with a random guy trying to murder him. He’s gonna fight to win. Hit was someone Goku literally asked to fight and he considers a friend. Naruto is not and Goku doesn’t know Naruto. He’s just trying to kill him so Goku would respond accordingly.

two of those are fother that goku didn't saw as worth it and nappa even made him mad so not the case here, freeza made him extremely mad so not the case here, cell goku extended the fight so it ads to my point, buu was trying to destroy his planet and was a know threat that he was warned so not the case here, and beerus was kind of the same as buu, so not the case here
also remember when hit was trying to murder goku? yeah he didn't use the kaioken even when pushed there

Who even says Goku has to give Naruto the time of day? If he’s literally just gonna start trying to kill him out of the blue I don’t see a reason why Goku wouldn’t just immediately treat him as an enemy and take him down. You’re trying to act as if Goku would treat this as a slight spar when by all accounts Goku would just view Naruto as an enemy to be taken down. He would view him as a threat. I don’t see why he wouldn’t.

Hit is his friend and someone he literally asked to fight him at his own accord. This is not the same.

if it prolongs too long with naruto not hitting he would likely use some of his other abilities, like genjutsu or paralisis or just an aoe rasen shuriken

If it prolongs too long Goku would’ve simply used Kaioken to overpower Naruto. You don’t seem to understand that no matter what Naruto does goku will have a read on his energy

any other being would be considered outside help, and where is the proof that he can teleport using plants? also he would not expect the blast to be too large and it likely not be enough time for him to teleport

What do you mean “outside help?” Bugs and animals don’t classify as “help” when it’s literally just teleportation. And why wouldn’t he expect the blast to be large what? He can sense energy he knows how much energy would be compact in that attack.

He’s seen small attacks go big before, it’s nothing new.

who is restricting?

You are by trying to say Goku can’t teleport anywhere else because somehow bugs are “outside help” lol.

And this doesn’t explain why Goku wouldn’t just teleport around Naruto to avoid the attack.

1 show me that plants can be used as well, we never saw him doing it to them
2 if he could do to plants he could have teleported to any planet with plant life, it would have been easier to sense than a planet in another dimension

1) Goku described it as sending Ki. All things have ki.
2) I told you King Kai’s place was the first thing that cane

he can feel people through their intent to harm

Ok valid.

yes it is, have you not saw the clips?

Yeah….nowhere does it show Naruto getting hit by his own attacks?

 

[Maitreya]

btw going to sleep now

Gn.

 

[Robo]

bro goku cant teleport coz he doesn't have ki to lock onto

 

[Da3ggman]

bro goku cant teleport coz he doesn't have ki to lock onto

Ki and Chakra are similar enough to where he can still sense it.

 

[Robo]

Ki and Chakra are similar enough to where he can still sense it.

nawwww, it has to be ki otherwise goku cant teleport

 

[OneRhasstyBoi]

Goku in this key should scale above SSJ2 Kefla, who can one shot UIO2 Goku. And UIO2 Goku > UIO1 Goku > IZ which’s baseline Low 2-C. It means that SSB Goku Post UIO2 can one shot people that are fairly above baseline Low 2-C. If Naruto does not scale ridiculously above baseline Low 2-C He’ll get his ass handled by Goku.

 

[Robo]

like Goku being able to teleport and shit just because it has a similar life force energy would be NLF unless its verse equalization

 

[Yaozin]

There's a uni Naruto profile now?

Yeah. Storm series naruto's profile

 

[Yaozin]

Naruto will slap the goku despite being restricted

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

If Naruto will try to kill Goku and use his lethal techniques:

1) Again, Goku would sense that, he'd know Naruto is a threat and act accordingly. He may love a good battle, but he isn't stupid

2) If he sees that combined with thousands of clones charging at him, Goku would immediately use SSBKK20, especially when even one keeps up with Blue and just instantly blitz and one shot all the clones

But what I'm asking is that if Naruto goes for the kill immediately against random beings or not? Cause if he would, Goku won't treat him lightly

 

[Robo]

goku cant sense coz he needs ki to lock onto
naruto doesnt have ki he has chakra lol

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

goku cant sense coz he needs ki to lock onto
naruto doesnt have ki he has chakra lol

Ever heard of verse equalization in VS threads?

 

[Robo]

Ever heard of verse equalization in VS threads?

OP didn’t do that

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

OP didn’t do that

This is something that happens in all battles due to how SBA works. If verse equalization isn't a thing in this battle, then it can't be added to the profiles

 

[omegabronic]

Naruto will slap the goku despite being restricted

was this a vote for naruto?

 

[RanaProGamer]

God dayum, I just made the profile last night and this looking. Anyways, I'll clear something up since some people are debating this.

Storm 4 Six Paths Naruto (Baseline Low 2-C) < Base Teen/Adult Naruto < Kurama Sage Mode < DLC Six Paths Naruto

 

[Reiner]

Wait naruto Low 2C??? Am I woke up in alternate world or smth..

 

[Braking]

Why is there a superpower wiki link in narutos profile?

 

[omegabronic]

He was literally countering Hit’s technique prior. It’s when Hit started to keep getting better and overwhelm Goku that he chose to use it.

it was when hit made his time skip longer and longer, to such a degree that goku could not counter anymore and was helpless, here it is just a guy trowing things at him, punching in a different way, sommoning frogs, i concede that he would try harder against someone like naruto tho

Why wouldn’t he assume Naruto’s dangerous? Goku would consider him a threat because of the fact that Naruto is actively trying to kill himX

not really? i mean, he would consider him a threat but not super dangerous per say, as he would have no idea that the projectiles or the different punch are fatal, he would know that naruto is trying to, but for all he knows naruto could just be trying to overwhelm him,

If he uses a dozen shadow clones I see no reason for Goku not to counter with Kaioken x whatever he needs to comfortably avoid all of them.

fair point, but things like the gentjusu wouldn't care much for this

You mean the instance where goku literally asked Hit himself to kill him? Yeah, that’s goku sparing with a person he actively knows. This is Naruto just trying to kill him so there’s no reason for Goku to treat Naruto with the same courtesy he treated his friend Hit when he personally asked him to attack his person.

fair enough

I never said as much?

then i am kind of confused about what is your point?

When someone starts throwing a dozen shadow clones or spamming out massive attacks is see no reason why he wouldn’t go blitz him with kaioken. Even a 2 or 3x Kaioken would be enough to blitz at that points

a two to three difference in speed is not enough for a blitz, we currently have no minimal value for blitz on the wiki

So what Rasenshurikens you’re citing Goku can simply counter with ki blasts.

naruto can nulify goku's ki blasts with the truth seeking orbs or just absorb them with his energy absortion, plus if naruto goes for the aoe ones then this will make then explode and hit goku anyway

And if Naruto decides to use his larger attacks goku can simply counter with activating Kaioken. I don’t see the issue here.

kaioken will not save him from the aoe of the attack that is thousand of kilometers long

yeah Goku’s pretty adept at dodging so I don’t see why he wouldn’t.

goku's main way of fighting is to go for hand to hand and trow blows with the opponent, in which naruto would land a frog strike in the middle of the punches

This doesn’t hinder my point. Rasenshuriken is more lethal than rasengan, Naruto knows this ergo he uses more lethal intent with the rasenshuriken than the rasengan. Goku can feel that lethal intent.

i don't see your point? he knows about the intent, but he wouldn't treat the rasen shuriken any differently than anyother projectile, he would either try to deflect(which would be game over) or attack with a ki blast

I’m asking how Naruto’s aoe would help him when Goku has similar if not larger aoe to Naruto with his own attacks.

because the aoe i showed was of the rasen shuriken, which ignores durability

Why do you think Goku wouldn’t bust out Kaioken the minute Naruto decides to try and press him with a dozen clones?

as i said before he would, but not the ones that would make him one shot, so when he starts to get the upperhand and outspeed naruto, he would logically transform to raise his speed and power with six paths sage mode and the kurama avatar, the latter that has the rasen shuriken aoe that i showed

Why not 4x or 5x or however many times Goku likes to be comfortable enough to always have an advantage over Naruto? You’re making Goku simply lower himself to a level Naruto can handle so Naruto can kill him when he could just make himself comfortable enough so that he can deal with Naruto easily.

because that is not how goku fights? when he sees that naruto is strong enough to content with him, he would want to see more, in which he would use the kaioken to be safe, as he can see naruto's intent, but he would likely use a lesser kaioken to see if naruto has more to show while also taking care

Even a Kaioken x3 would mean enough for him to blitz pretty sure too.

it doesn't a difference of 3 times is not enough for a blitz

He’s not gonna be playing around with a random guy trying to murder him. He’s gonna fight to win. Hit was someone Goku literally asked to fight and he considers a friend. Naruto is not and Goku doesn’t know Naruto. He’s just trying to kill him so Goku would respond accordingly.

he would be fighting to win, but he would also want to see what naruto can do, he would take care but he wouldn't want to end the fight immediately

Who even says Goku has to give Naruto the time of day? If he’s literally just gonna start trying to kill him out of the blue I don’t see a reason why Goku wouldn’t just immediately treat him as an enemy and take him down.

because that is not how goku is showed to fight, besides naruto wouldn't start with that, it would be hand to hand first, goku is showed to fight enemies in a way to test them and then if he sees that it is not worth it, he just goes for the finish, but naruto hitting a rasen shuriken of frog strike is more likely to happen first

You’re trying to act as if Goku would treat this as a slight spar when by all accounts Goku would just view Naruto as an enemy to be taken down. He would view him as a threat. I don’t see why he wouldn’t.

show me where has goku even had this mentality of "enemy=take down immediately" when said enemy is not known to him and has nothing to make him mad

Hit is his friend and someone he literally asked to fight him at his own accord. This is not the same.

good point

If it prolongs too long Goku would’ve simply used Kaioken to overpower Naruto. You don’t seem to understand that no matter what Naruto does goku will have a read on his energy

yes, but the likelyhood of goku using a kaioken enough to blitz is not too high, naruto using an "can be seen from space" large aoe rasen shuriken is more likely than goku just deciding to end the fight immediately

What do you mean “outside help?” Bugs and animals don’t classify as “help” when it’s literally just teleportation. And why wouldn’t he expect the blast to be large what? He can sense energy he knows how much energy would be compact in that attack.

https://s1.mbbcdnv2.xyz/file/img-mbuddy/manga/dragon-ball-digital-colored-comics/chapter-336-the-risky-decision/ad39c28ee554_4.jpg

the point is moot since goku needs it to be a person

He’s seen small attacks go big before, it’s nothing new.

he wouldn't be able to dodge tho, that it the point

You are by trying to say Goku can’t teleport anywhere else because somehow bugs are “outside help” lol.

any other beings are considered outside help as per the sba

And this doesn’t explain why Goku wouldn’t just teleport around Naruto to avoid the attack.

he can, but he would still be hit since the explossion is that big

1) Goku described it as sending Ki. All things have ki.
2) I told you King Kai’s place was the first thing that cane

no, goku described as sensing a person's ki, he specify that it needs to be a person

Ok valid.

ok

Yeah….nowhere does it show Naruto getting hit by his own attacks?

yes it does? see the clips again the explosion hit him

Goku in this key should scale above SSJ2 Kefla, who can one shot UIO2 Goku. And UIO2 Goku > UIO1 Goku > IZ which’s baseline Low 2-C. It means that SSB Goku Post UIO2 can one shot people that are fairly above baseline Low 2-C. If Naruto does not scale ridiculously above baseline Low 2-C He’ll get his ass handled by Goku.

this goku scales to ultra instinc sigh 1, the one that fought jiren the first time

1) Again, Goku would sense that, he'd know Naruto is a threat and act accordingly. He may love a good battle, but he isn't stupid

2) If he sees that combined with thousands of clones charging at him, Goku would immediately use SSBKK20, especially when even one keeps up with Blue and just instantly blitz and one shot all the clones

tbh the thousands part was just me talking about his limit is cloning, he ussually uses a couple or a dozen

But what I'm asking is that if Naruto goes for the kill immediately against random beings or not? Cause if he would, Goku won't treat him lightly

not immeadiatly, he goes for hand to hand first and clones, after that he may transform into six path sage kyubi mode and that is when he starts using rasen shuriken often and then the kurama avatar that is when he starts using the gigantic aoe rasen shuriken

 

[omegabronic]

Wait naruto Low 2C??? Am I woke up in alternate world or smth..

dragon ball has xeno for 2-A, naruto has storm series for low 2-C, do you want to vote yet?

Why is there a superpower wiki link in narutos profile?

probably a minor error, going to be fixed soon

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

show me where has goku even had this mentality of "enemy=take down immediately" when said enemy is not known to him and has nothing to make him mad

For example, he did it to Cell, and said to Cell he'd not hesitate to kill him if he could do it. He did it also to Kid Buu. He would've likely done it to Fat Buu as well if it weren't for him being dead. Goku immediately finished Frieza off when he was about to destroy the Earth again, and would've finished off Goku Black if it weren't for Black getting a zenkai

yes, but the likelyhood of goku using a kaioken enough to blitz is not too high, naruto using an "can be seen from space" large aoe rasen shuriken is more likely than goku just deciding to end the fight immediately

SSBKK20 makes Goku 20 times faster than Naruto. He'd definitely blitz. Goku is also no stranger to aoe attacks (Frieza's Supernova, his own Kamehameha, the Spirit Bomb, just to name a few), so Naruto's aoe blast wouldn't be much different

Goku would his full power if he'd feel Naruto's killing intent, and will definitely use the Kaioken too if he has too. Also, it's not like Goku can:

1) Simply teleport behind Naruto as he throws the attack, and 2) Counter it with his own move such as the Kamehameha. No reason why it wouldn't work

this goku scales to ultra instinc sigh 1, the one that fought jiren the first time

No he doesn't, by the time of the late ToP SSB Goku and Vegeta could fight Jiren who was showing a hint of his true power, something he didn't do even against UI Sign 1 Goku, they were inferior to him, yes, but he fact he even showed it at all makes SSB Goku at that point stronger than UI Sign 1 Goku

not immeadiatly, he goes for hand to hand first and clones, after that he may transform into six path sage kyubi mode and that is when he starts using rasen shuriken often and then the kurama avatar that is when he starts using the gigantic aoe rasen shuriken

Alright, though does he normally kill, or does he incap or ko them? Once again, Goku loves a good fight but he isn't stupid and if he sees that Naruto decides to kill him with his next moves, he'll treat Naruto as an enemy and will use the Kaioken if necessary

 

[Reiner]

dragon ball has xeno for 2-A, naruto has storm series for low 2-C, do you want to vote yet?

Not really knowledgeable in naruto, so I would better make a distance.

 

[Braking]

@omegabronic i suggest to put in who voted for who. so we can know the votes are legit.

 

[Yaozin]

bu naruto için bir oy muydu?

yeah

 

[omegabronic]

Not really knowledgeable in naruto, so I would better make a distance.

fair enough have a nice day

For example, he did it to Cell, and said to Cell he'd not hesitate to kill him if he could do it.

wasn't his in the fight with cell fighting with the mentality of letting gohan finish the job?

He did it also to Kid Buu.

tbf kid buu kinda gave him reason with the whole "killing all of my family and friends thing"

He would've likely done it to Fat Buu as well if it weren't for him being dead.

again buu was a threat that he was warned about and he had killed gohan from goku's perspective

Goku immediately finished Frieza off when he was about to destroy the Earth again

because he saw him doing it once, he knew what kind of threat freeza is

and would've finished off Goku Black if it weren't for Black getting a zenkai

which fight against black you are referring to?

SSBKK20 makes Goku 20 times faster than Naruto. He'd definitely blitz.

why would he go that far against someone who is not much stronger than him? he would use kaioken but why that far?

Goku is also no stranger to aoe attacks (Frieza's Supernova, his own Kamehameha, the Spirit Bomb, just to name a few), so Naruto's aoe blast wouldn't be much different

okay but how would he dodge it? also did he ever dealt with a aoe of thousands of kilometers?

Goku would his full power if he'd feel Naruto's killing intent, and will definitely use the Kaioken too if he has too.

when has goku ever shown to fight like this? if he knows that naruto is going to kill him he will be careful but where is he ever show to use full power immediately when threatened?

Also, it's not like Goku can:

1) Simply teleport behind Naruto as he throws the attack,

naruto would feel goku's harm intent and him and dodge or summon kurama's hand to protect himself and then get hit by the aoe

and 2) Counter it with his own move such as the Kamehameha. No reason why it wouldn't work

if he does that the rasen shuriken explodes and then he gets hit by the aoe of it

No he doesn't, by the time of the late ToP SSB Goku and Vegeta could fight Jiren who was showing a hint of his true power, something he didn't do even against UI Sign 1 Goku, they were inferior to him, yes, but he fact he even showed it at all makes SSB Goku at that point stronger than UI Sign 1 Goku

i meant scale as in upscale, forgot to put the up

Alright, though does he normally kill, or does he incap or ko them? Once again, Goku loves a good fight but he isn't stupid and if he sees that Naruto decides to kill him with his next moves, he'll treat Naruto as an enemy and will use the Kaioken if necessary

normally? he goes for the incap, if that is shown to not be effective he goes for the kill

 

[omegabronic]

@omegabronic i suggest to put in who voted for who. so we can know the votes are legit.

done

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

which fight against black you are referring to?

The one where he revealed he killed Chi-Chi and Bulma

why would he go that far against someone who is not much stronger than him? he would use kaioken but why that far?

Even Kaioken times 2 would greatly shift the battle in Goku's favor, but Goku uses SSBKK10 and 20 a lot more

okay but how would he dodge it? also did he ever dealt with a aoe of thousands of kilometers?

Yes? Their attack reached space multiple times. That range is nothing that he isn't farmiliar with.
He'd dodge it by teleporting away and behind Naruto as the blast clears

when has goku ever shown to fight like this? if he knows that naruto is going to kill him he will be careful but where is he ever show to use full power immediately when threatened?

He did that several times in the show, for example, against Vegeta, then Frieza, then Cell, then Buu, then Beerus, then Frieza again, then Black

naruto would feel goku's harm intent and him and dodge or summon kurama's hand to protect himself and then get hit by the aoe

Can Naruto do that too? The ability isn't given because of verse equalization, it's because Goku has showed feats of doing that, so unless Naruto can sense killing intent too with just his chakra sensing then no it wouldn't be the case

if he does that the rasen shuriken explodes and then he gets hit by the aoe of it

That would be blocked by Goku's own blast. And was it shown that it explodes in such manner if that happens

normally? he goes for the incap, if that is shown to not be effective he goes for the kill

So he would probably not even use it immediately at all and they'll fight more calmly, but Goku will get serious if he senses Naturo wants to kill him

 

[omegabronic]

The one where he revealed he killed Chi-Chi and Bulma

ok, this is not the same situation then, since black actively made him mad in that situation

Even Kaioken times 2 would greatly shift the battle in Goku's favor,

not really by much, naruto can just activate the Kurama Sage Mode or Six Paths Sage Mode that make him 2 times his normal power as he is comparable to fused momoshiki, and his base power is comparable to momoshiki and ishiki, with fused momoshiki being momo + ishi, and he has the kurama avatar to even the ods even more

but Goku uses SSBKK10 and 20 a lot more

because most of the time he is fighting beings who are strong enough to earn a times 20 or 10, here it is someone equal to him and at maximum 2 times with his transformations, he has no reason to overdo it by this much

Yes? Their attack reached space multiple times. That range is nothing that he isn't farmiliar with.

okay fair

He'd dodge it by teleporting away and behind Naruto as the blast clears

the blast would still hit him if he goes behind naruto

He did that several times in the show, for example, against Vegeta, then Frieza, then Cell, then Buu, then Beerus, then Frieza again, then Black

in most of them he fought for a while before going all out, and in the ones he didn't it was because of circuntance, like being an threat to the planet or having pissed him off by killing his loved ones etc

Can Naruto do that too? The ability isn't given because of verse equalization, it's because Goku has showed feats of doing that, so unless Naruto can sense killing intent too with just his chakra sensing then no it wouldn't be the case

he can feel harm intent yes

That would be blocked by Goku's own blast. And was it shown that it explodes in such manner if that happens

fair enough

So he would probably not even use it immediately at all and they'll fight more calmly,

yeah, i didn't mean to sound like he would use it immediately, just that he uses it in character, sorry for the confusion, he has other way to incap like sealing, paralisys or genjutsu just to note

but Goku will get serious if he senses Naturo wants to kill him

so would naruto tbh

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

-

So considering both Naruto and Goku will only really go for lethal attacks if they're pushed to, I do believe they won't really use it since both would just enjoy the fight, but I do think Goku will eventually use the Kaioken and win, especially if Naruto would power up too

 

[RanaProGamer]

Ok, since we’re in topic of fighting mentality, I think there’s something from Storm Revolution I need to address. Naruto 2v1’s multiple Kages in his base, despite knowing how strong they are. And even against Kyūbi Mode Naruto, even though it’s his friend, he incaps him in his base while knowing the threat he posses. It isn’t until he looks at Mecha-Kurama that he starts off the fight with Kurama Mode and goes for the win.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

So that just means Naruto normally incap doesn't it?

 

[RanaProGamer]

So that just means Naruto normally incap doesn't it?

Normally yeah, but it doesn’t mean he won’t use his strongest form right off the bat to do it.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Normally yeah, but it doesn’t mean he won’t use his strongest form right off the bat to do it.

Sure, but that does mean he wouldn't use one of his lethal moves willy-nilly like that from what I understand

Not that Goku will just stand there and let him do it of course

 

[Robo]

This is something that happens in all battles due to how SBA works. If verse equalization isn't a thing in this battle, then it can't be added to the profiles

Verse equalization is only applied if the two energy systems are similar enough

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Verse equalization is only applied if the two energy systems are similar enough

Verse equalization applies in all VS matches, otherwise there's no way to accurately have them battle at all. Read the VS thread rules

 

[Da3ggman]

Verse equalization is only applied if the two energy systems are similar enough

like Goku being able to teleport and shit just because it has a similar life force energy would be NLF unless its verse equalization

 

[Robo]

Ki and chakra ain’t similar enough

 

[Da3ggman]

Ki and chakra ain’t similar enough

They're both Life forces inspired by the real life concept of Chi that allow the user to amplify their stats, transform, and fire energy to attack. They're nearly identical.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Ki and chakra ain’t similar enough

That's not how it works. Verse equalization is always assumed to happen so that these battles will be possible, and this is what the rules says. Don't like it? Go make a crt to change how the rules work. I didn't make them

 

[Robo]

That's not how it works. Verse equalization is always assumed to happen so that these battles will be possible, and this is what the rules says. Don't like it? Go make a crt to change how the rules work. I didn't make them

...
"Furthermore, attacks that require a special type of energy to be effective, like anti-magic requiring magic, will be assumed to work against the energies of different Verses, as long as they are somehow similar and the mechanics are somehow compatible with the known mechanics behind the energies from different Verses."

 

[omegabronic]

...
"Furthermore, attacks that require a special type of energy to be effective, like anti-magic requiring magic, will be assumed to work against the energies of different Verses, as long as they are somehow similar and the mechanics are somehow compatible with the known mechanics behind the energies from different Verses."

both of them are similar tho

 

[RanaProGamer]

I just realized I haven’t commented who I think wins, how does Goku fair against Naruto’s RPL. And does Goku have a counter against Naruto TSBs?

 

[omegabronic]

I just realized I haven’t commented who I think wins, how does Goku fair against Naruto’s RPL. And does Goku have a counter against Naruto TSBs?

goku himself risists erasure, but his ki attacks don't

 

[GokuSparkle]

Naruto, Goku's not gonna go for Kaioken immediately. If he does what he did against Kefla and goes Kaioken when he sees an attack too powerful and tries countering it, the RS is gonna neg him

 

[omegabronic]

Naruto, Goku's not gonna go for Kaioken immediately. If he does what he did against Kefla and goes Kaioken when he sees an attack too powerful and tries countering it, the RS is gonna neg him

counted

 

[ShionAH]

I thought I already voted. Burrito (Naruto) FRA

 

[omegabronic]

I thought I already voted. Burrito (Naruto) FRA

counted

 

[Reiner]

Naruto FRA

 

[omegabronic]

Naruto FRA

counted, and now grace period starts naruto wining against dbs goku, people got what they wanted

 

[KingNanaya]

counted, and now grace period starts naruto wining against dbs goku, people got what they wanted

big W. the worst in the big 3 wins lol

 

[RanaProGamer]

Voting Naruto as well

 

[Undylan]

Universal Naruto from the Storm games? Not sure if I truly believe that.

Well, what are wincons for both now?

 

[omegabronic]

Voting Naruto as well

counted

 

[omegabronic]

Universal Naruto from the Storm games? Not sure if I truly believe that.

crazy stuff right?

Well, what are wincons for both now?

for goku is and edge in skill and a way for an insta win with the kaioken multiplier

for naruto is his means of incap(ninjutsu, sealing with magnet style, paralisis etc) and moves that ignore durability(frog strike and rasen shuriken, the latter that can have one very big aoe) plus advantages with clones and being able to feel goku's intent of harm

 

[omegabronic]

big W. the worst in the big 3 wins lol

how dare you

 

[Robo]

both of them are similar tho

thats going into NLF territory

 

[omegabronic]

thats going into NLF territory

nlf has literraly nothing to do with this

 

[Robo]

nlf has literraly nothing to do with this

ye it does coz goku has never shown to sense and teleport with chakra

 

[omegabronic]

ye it does coz goku has never shown to sense and teleport with chakra

verse equalization, ki and chakra are very similar and thus are equalized as per the rules, you thinking otherwise doesn't change this

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Voting Naruto as well

What the hell?

Rana did you get permission to put this up before the CRT was made?

 

[Robo]

verse equalization, ki and chakra are very similar and thus are equalized as per the rules, you thinking otherwise doesn't change this

verse = only applies if they are similar enough and ki and chakra aint similar fr

 

[omegabronic]

verse = only applies if they are similar enough and ki and chakra aint similar fr

explain how they aren't, both are inner enrgies based on chi that you need to live and that can be used for a veriety of effects like elemental attacks and energy balls

 

[omegabronic]

What the hell?

Rana did you get permission to put this up before the CRT was made?

permission? the crt was made and concluded a long time ago

 

[Robo]

explain how they aren't, both are inner enrgies based on chi that you need to live and that can be used for a veriety of effects like elemental attacks and energy balls

Ki is life force that acts as energy while chakra is power thats in shinobi brah
simple maths

 

[omegabronic]

Ki is life force that acts as energy while chakra is power thats in shinobi brah
simple maths

chakra is also life force that acts as energy

 

[Robo]

chakra is also life force that acts as energy

chakra is a different kind of life force

 

[Robo]

how is goku sensing chakra if he isn't a descendant of it

 

[omegabronic]

chakra is a different kind of life force

no it isn't

 

[Robo]

no it isn't

ye it is

 

[Robo]

@omegabronic i'll just put it in questions and answers

 

[Robo]

@omegabronic aight you have to prove most of these for it to be verse equalization ki and chakra wise

• They exist in similar states in the world (i.e. things that have Chakra in Naruto will match things that have Ki in DB)
• They can be used for similar things such as energy attacks, enhancements, or abilities
• They have similar functions in both worlds
• How the user gains or loses the power is similar

 

[Da3ggman]

• They exist in similar states in the world (i.e. things that have Chakra in Naruto will match things that have Ki in DB)

They both are used as life energy. When someone runs out of that energy, they die.

• They can be used for similar things such as energy attacks, enhancements, or abilities

Both are used fro energy attack, amps, abilities, and transformations.

• They have similar functions in both worlds

See above

• How the user gains or loses the power is similar

Both are lost through usage with attacks and transformations, and can be gained back by simply resting and/ or getting stronger.

 

[OneRhasstyBoi]

Goku in this key doesn’t even need Kaioken to handle Naruto. According to what I have seen, Naruto is not really far off baseline Low 2-C while SSB Goku in this key scale above people that can one shot people that are above baseline Low 2-C.
Here is the scaling: SSB Goku( Post UIO2)> SSJ2 Kefla( can one shot UIO2 Goku have he not dodge her Ki Blast)> UIO2 Goku> UIO1 Goku> Infinite Zamasu = Baseline Low 2-C.
If any of Goku’s attack touch Naruto, he is basically dead and punching or throwing Ki Blast is the first move that Goku do in almost every fight, Goku’s aoe Ki Blast can extend up to Universal Range so Naruto is not hiding anywhere.

 

[Bernkastelll]

i vote narto as well

 

[GokuSparkle]

Goku in this key doesn’t even need Kaioken to handle Naruto. According to what I have seen, Naruto is not really far off baseline Low 2-C while SSB Goku in this key scale above people that can one shot people that are above baseline Low 2-C.
Here is the scaling: SSB Goku( Post UIO2)> SSJ2 Kefla( can one shot UIO2 Goku have he not dodge her Ki Blast)> UIO2 Goku> UIO1 Goku> Infinite Zamasu = Baseline Low 2-C.
If any of Goku’s attack touch Naruto, he is basically dead and punching or throwing Ki Blast is the first move that Goku do in almost every fight, Goku’s aoe Ki Blast can extend up to Universal Range so Naruto is not hiding anywhere.

Naruto is quite a bit above Baseline Low 2-C.

 

[OneRhasstyBoi]

Naruto is quite a bit above Baseline Low 2-C.

I already agreed that Naruto is a bit above baseline Low 2-C. The problem here is that it’s not enough.
This is on Kefla’s proflie: Universe level+ (When fighting vs Ultra Instinct Goku, a confident Super Saiyan 2 Kefla stated she could "blow away an entire universe in one shot", and Piccolo commented that her power had surpassed the level that Goku had previously reached when fighting Jiren. At her absolute maximum strength, it was stated that not even a more adept UI Goku would have been capable of surviving one of her blasts, although he was able to effortlessly dodge each of her attacks).
Goku in this key scale above the same Kefla, who already can one shot people that are above baseline, meaning he can also one shot Naruto who is also a bit above baseline.

 

[Robo]

goku can one shot but naruto has hax

 

[OneRhasstyBoi]

goku can one shot but naruto has hax

The only hax that really matters is the TSO which Goku already resisted. Outside of that, Naruto just mostly summons clones and spams Rasengan and Rasen Shuriken which Goku will respond with a massive AOE Ki Blast that has Universal Range that will kill all of the clones and Naruto himself.

 

[omegabronic]

I already agreed that Naruto is a bit above baseline Low 2-C. The problem here is that it’s not enough.
This is on Kefla’s proflie: Universe level+ (When fighting vs Ultra Instinct Goku, a confident Super Saiyan 2 Kefla stated she could "blow away an entire universe in one shot", and Piccolo commented that her power had surpassed the level that Goku had previously reached when fighting Jiren. At her absolute maximum strength, it was stated that not even a more adept UI Goku would have been capable of surviving one of her blasts, although he was able to effortlessly dodge each of her attacks).
Goku in this key scale above the same Kefla, who already can one shot people that are above baseline, meaning he can also one shot Naruto who is also a bit above baseline.

why would goku in this key be above kefla?

 

[OneRhasstyBoi]

why would goku in this key be above kefla?

Because he fought Jiren who was showing a hint of his true power and stood his ground? The same Jiren literally made Beerus sweet his pants by flexing his Ki.

 

[omegabronic]

Because he fought Jiren who was showing a hint of his true power and stood his ground? The same Jiren literally made Beerus sweet his pants by flexing his Ki.

so? that only makes this goku above ultra instinct sigh 1 from the first battle with jiren, as explained by gilad

 

[OneRhasstyBoi]

so? that only makes this goku above ultra instinct sigh 1 from the first battle with jiren, as explained by gilad

Dude, Jiren heavily suppressed frightened Beerus, that speaks volume of his power. Both UIO1 and UIO2 Goku along with SSJ2 Kefla didn’t do anything to frightened Beerus. Jiren himself didn’t even bother to participate the fight between Goku and Kefla and continue meditating. He only stop meditating and started fighting when SSB Goku and Vegeta( Post UIO2) appear.

 

[omegabronic]

Dude, Jiren heavily suppressed frightened Beerus, that speaks volume of his power.

which doesn't mean much outside of him being extremely high for what a mortal should be, which is true

Both UIO1 and UIO2 Goku along with SSJ2 Kefla didn’t do anything to frightened Beerus.

because 1 he expected and now knows that mortals can be that strong and 2 if you want to use this argument than ssb goku in this key didn't either

Jiren himself didn’t even bother to participate the fight between Goku and Kefla and continue meditating. He only stop meditating and started fighting when SSB Goku and Vegeta( Post UIO2) appear.

show the scene for context

 

[OneRhasstyBoi]

because 1 he expected and now knows that mortals can be that strong and 2 if you want to use this argument than ssb goku in this key didn't either

1 Goku scale to people that frightened Beerus and 2 Goku scale to Vegeta that was being praised for doing so well against Jiren and even Belmod was freaked out seeing Vegeta was able to pressure Jiren. 3 If UIO2 Goku and SSJ2 Kefla was truly stronger than or even just being as strong as Heavily Suppressed Jiren, the Angels, GODs, Kaioshin would make a statement directly compare them to Jiren who is the top dog of T.O.P.

show the scene for context

Can’t find the scene on YT so I’ll just summarize it: Near the end of ep 111, after curbstomping Hit, Jiren went to meditate. He stopped meditating in the middle of ep 116 to see the fight between Goku and Kefla but still did not participate in it and did not participate in any fight until ep 122, where he confronted SSB Goku.

 

[omegabronic]

1 Goku scale to people that frightened Beerus

don't see how that counters my point

and 2 Goku scale to Vegeta that was being praised for doing so well against Jiren and even Belmod was freaked out seeing Vegeta was able to pressure Jiren.

so? belmod does that to everyone that can somewhat challenge jiren

3 If UIO2 Goku and SSJ2 Kefla was truly stronger than or even just being as strong as Heavily Suppressed Jiren, the Angels, GODs, Kaioshin would make a statement directly compare them to Jiren who is the top dog of T.O.P.

the fact that there is no statement doesn't prove that they aren't, jiren was impressed enough from ultra instinct sigh 2 goku that he felt the need to watch, also champa seems pretty impressed by kefla

Can’t find the scene on YT so I’ll just summarize it: Near the end of ep 111, after curbstomping Hit, Jiren went to meditate. He stopped meditating in the middle of ep 116 to see the fight between Goku and Kefla but still did not participate in it and did not participate in any fight until ep 122, where he confronted SSB Goku.

i don't see the relevance of this, there was no need to participate in that fight, and since the whole top is about conserving energy, he would wait to the end of the fight, but since goku depowered from ultra instinct by the end, he now no need to participate

 

[OneRhasstyBoi]

don't see how that counters my point


so? belmod does that to everyone that can somewhat challenge jiren


the fact that there is no statement doesn't prove that they aren't, jiren was impressed enough from ultra instinct sigh 2 goku that he felt the need to watch, also champa seems pretty impressed by kefla


i don't see the relevance of this, there was no need to participate in that fight, and since the whole top is about conserving energy, he would wait to the end of the fight, but since goku depowered from ultra instinct by the end, he now no need to participate

You know what? Let’s just go with your messed up interpretation and say SSJ2 Kefla is stronger than Heavily Suppressed Jiren. Doesn’t really matter because Goku still has a Broly Saga sub-key in this key, which SSB Goku scales to Ikari Broly who was stated by Goku to be different than any other Saiyan that they have seen which made him stronger than SSJ2 Kefla anyways.

 

[omegabronic]

You know what? Let’s just go with your messed up interpretation and say SSJ2 Kefla is stronger than Heavily Suppressed Jiren. Doesn’t really matter because Goku still has a Broly Saga sub-key in this key, which SSB Goku scales to Ikari Broly who was stated by Vegeta to be different than any other Saiyan that they have seen which made him stronger than SSJ2 Kefla anyways.

you mean the vague quote that can mean numerous things? goku in that scene could be talking about broly's suddenly growths in power, as he went from comparable to base vegeta to ss1 vegeta level, and then from that to ssg level in a short time, or he could be talking about broly's ikari form, which neither goku nor vegeta have saw before, the statement is too vague to say that it is about power

 

[OneRhasstyBoi]

you mean the vague quote that can mean numerous things? goku in that scene could be talking about broly's suddenly growths in power, as he went from comparable to base vegeta to ss1 vegeta level, and then from that to ssg level in a short time, or he could be talking about broly's ikari form, which neither goku nor vegeta have saw before, the statement is too vague to say that it is about power

Both Goku and Vegeta has seen Saiyans with ridiculous growth rate before, such as Black and Kefla herself, as seen when she match UIO2 Goku level at the beginning of their battle and at the end of the fight can one shot the same UIO2 Goku. Ikari form is just Great Ape without the need to transform as clearly explained by Broly’s father and it gives a 10 time power boost, nothing special about that form, it’s even ranked lower than normal SSJ form. And both Goku and Vegeta do not make this kind of statement when they see SSJR Black and SSJ Berserk Kale, which is actually unique SSJ forms.

 

[omegabronic]

Both Goku and Vegeta has seen Saiyans with ridiculous growth rate before, such as Black and Kefla herself

both which are not even close to broly's, he grew stupitedly high after only a very short fight and after being completely overpowered by ssg vegeta only to overpower him instead

as seen when she match UIO2 Goku level at the beginning of their battle and at the end of the fight can one shot the same UIO2 Goku.

you keep saying one shot, can you give a link to what you are talking about?

Ikari form is just Great Ape without the need to transform as clearly explained by Broly’s father and it gives a 10 time power boost, nothing special about that form

the fact that it is a great ape in base form is special enough, that and broly still growing power

, it’s even ranked lower than normal SSJ form.

you are thinking again about just power, but the form itself is something that goku has never seen before, and also the fact that goku may not have even notice the transformation by that point, which works as well since it would be broly going ten times his base with no transformation from goku's perceptive, again too vague to say that it is talking about power exclusively

And both Goku and Vegeta do not make this kind of statement when they see SSJR Black and SSJ Berserk Kale, which is actually unique SSJ forms.

yes because they can recognize that it is a variation of super sayan, which they are still surprised about, but it is a super sayan variation, which is not very shocking by this time in super, broly on the otherhand is a completely new form that we never seen anything even remotely similar before