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Wasn't there a tweet or interview about the creators making the characters weaker so they could focus on the kids or something?
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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread
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No the tweet was that they’d be downsizing the scale of battles, hence the focus on taijutsu. Nothing about characters getting weaker.
Godernet
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I wouldn't say they were nerfed, Naruto and Sasuke definitely had jutsu that could have beaten Jigen, But by that point, the series had already established they were rusty.
Sasuke is still very observant but is far less creative with his Jutsu. Tricking opponents with Genjutsu and layered plans are things he doesn't often do anymore. being stronger than practically everyone on the planet for more than half his life probably doesn't help with him staying sharp.
And Naruto is pretty much just completely reliant on Kurama and Sasuke for analysis and strategy at this point. The same Naruto that was known for being surprisingly perceptive and unpredictable in fights doesn't exist anymore. He sits behind a desk all day and hasn't had to be the underdog that uses any means necessary to survive in a while.
Plus the Jigen fight was kind of random like they did not know what they were getting into and got folded.
IMO they could have won using some kind of Izanami, sealing, or soul steal hax but they were just not prepared for Jigen to be as strong as he was. I don't think they were getting any of that BS off on Isshiki tho.
It was also a bit of just lousy writing(I have no idea why even a rusty Sasuke would think using his perfect Susanoo against a shrinking man was a good move.)
small rant over.
Sasuke is still very observant but is far less creative with his Jutsu. Tricking opponents with Genjutsu and layered plans are things he doesn't often do anymore. being stronger than practically everyone on the planet for more than half his life probably doesn't help with him staying sharp.
And Naruto is pretty much just completely reliant on Kurama and Sasuke for analysis and strategy at this point. The same Naruto that was known for being surprisingly perceptive and unpredictable in fights doesn't exist anymore. He sits behind a desk all day and hasn't had to be the underdog that uses any means necessary to survive in a while.
Plus the Jigen fight was kind of random like they did not know what they were getting into and got folded.
IMO they could have won using some kind of Izanami, sealing, or soul steal hax but they were just not prepared for Jigen to be as strong as he was. I don't think they were getting any of that BS off on Isshiki tho.
It was also a bit of just lousy writing(I have no idea why even a rusty Sasuke would think using his perfect Susanoo against a shrinking man was a good move.)
small rant over.
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"Kishimoto stated Naruto and Sasuke becoming so stronger and the battles getting bigger and bigger, now you have KIDS fighting so the scale is gonna feel smaller. In 2016"
Well, Naruto fought Delta in front of the KIDS because he doesn't want to kill them by accident.
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Imagine if Naruto knew Flying Thunder God and warped the kids away, and then we could get an epic battle between Naruto and Delta.
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Izanami would have def negged jigen all it needs is physical contact
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Would barely scratch him, and would only work if caught off-guard.
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Tbf, this happened before Boruto though with the introduction of KCM and higher. And adult maturity would also play a role in diminishing unpredictability
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Nah war arc or non nerfed adults claps
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His absorption is garbage. It keeps him immobile and wide open to getting attacked in a 2v1.
Boil release, rinnegan abilities and genjutsu all bypass his absorption.
There's also the fact they didn't use Ashura avatar or Biju Perfect Susanoo and never merged like against Momoshiki
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Sure but Sasuke couldnt even manage to swing his sword at him before he teleported away while absorbing and he was close to Jigen. The opening that gives them is tiny.
Genjutsu being MIA is strange, but it didnt even start with Boruto. Didnt appear for Sasuke against Madara, Kaguya or Naruto either. It should be explicitly said but my headcanon is that its ineffective against opponents on that level and that Sasuke tried it against Kinshiki or someone like that off panel and it didnt work.
Ashura avatar is just fusing one avatar with two cloned avatars, I dont see what it would do. The planet they were on is dead so the nature energy boost like in Naruto and Sasukes last fight wasnt even possible against Jigen. They didnt immediately use the merged avatar against Momoshiki either and Jigen clapped them before they could.
Anyway, there are definitely ways that they could have outlasted Jigen. Problem is, they didn't know about his power or his stamina issues. If they could have formulated a plan around that beforehand, they could have outlasted and killed him, but Isshiki claps them no matter what without Baryon mode.
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I saw a meme that showed how people complain about anything pertaining to Sakura. They think she's too strong when she punches Kaguya, yet too weak when she loses to a poisonous kunai (that genuinely is dumb writing, though).
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Sage naruto=juubito for damaging him
Tdjwo
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Chunin exam Boruto=Momoshiki for damaging him.
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So basically he wouldn't be able to absorb any of their attacks. Confirms his absorption is useless in a 2v1. Not even gonna bring up Sasuke's versatility with ameno.
The former have rinnesharingan and all have bijuu inside them which neg regular sharingan genjutsu. Jigen and isshiki have zero resistances or immunity shown.
Far stronger than just Kurama
Naruto could use sage mode meaning there was nature energy present. Both Jigens and Isshiks planets had atmospheres and a sun. Isshikis planet had grasslands and water. Plenty to use AA
Momoshiki was fodder. The duo was literally playing with him until the giant Golem. Jigen was far more dangerous and if Sasuke retained his intelligence, another thing that was nerfed, they would have merged instead of stopping at individual avatars
Isshiki falls as well in a 2v1 againts non nerf adults
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True
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Wouldn't be surprised they got shin and the kage scaling to god tiers despite the narrative suggesting otherwiseImagine;
Chunin exams Boruto=Fused Momoshiki for damaging him,
Sakura=Kaguya for punching her,
Sage Mode Naruto=Juubito for "rasenganing" him,
...all get accepted here
GokuSparkle
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Ok, lay out for me rn how Teen Naruto and Sasuke beat Isshiki.
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They were in Konoha. So Shippuden like AOE was definitely a no.
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Easy. They Don't.
Anything else is just copium. All these "What Ifs" scenarios is useless. What would Naruto do? Make a bigger bomb?
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Bijuu dont automatically make you neg regular sharingan genjutsu, they need to cooperate with you which they won't for Madara and Kaguya. Even for perfect jinchuriki, genjutsu isnt instantly negged, it can serve as a short distraction. Rinnesharingan would probably neg Sasukes genjutsu, but he didnt even attempt it and Madara may not have. I agree that genjutsu not even being mentioned is bad writing, but I think its clear Otsutsuki neg it or it would have shown up in one or more of the Kinshiki/Momo/Isshiki fights.
Not really, it has no feats. Its just merging the main avatar with shadow clones, giving it extra arms. Narutos massive power boost against Sasuke came from all the nature energy he put into his rasenshurikens.
Yeah, but it probably has much less of it than Earth. Dont think its ever been shown that Naruto is capable of getting nature energy from the sun. Avatars are useless against Isshiki.
Momoshiki isnt really fodder compared to V1 Jigen, and horned Jigen caught Naruto and Sasuke by surprise.
Sorry but no, thats just cope. If anything, Isshiki was nerfed more than them. It was bullshit that they survived more than a couple of his hits when Jigen could bust open their avatars. He could have ended them by just stabbing them with rods too. Isshiki was just that guy, took plot nerfing, an asspull powerup for Naruto that had just the right ability to screw him over and a time limit because of his dying body to take him down.
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CRT it if you don't like it. Noones stopping you.
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^this, remember by 2014 most naruto fans were complaining about the giant jutsus and stuff and wanted Taijutsu.
GokuSparkle
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Nahhh nahhh he'd use Boil Release as if that'll close the gap.Easy. They Don't.
Anything else is just copium. All these "What Ifs" scenarios is useless. What would Naruto do? Make a bigger bomb?
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Lol at Teen Nardo and Sauce Stans has worst way to copium but copium is nothing. Isshiki slap Teen aka weakest version of Naruto and Sasuke to the ground in less second.
Kaguya who stronger than Madara in his Jinchuuriki form but she get clown by Teen Naruto and Sasuke in their WEAKER form. Even 3-days limit Isshiki make Era Nardo and Sauce in their strongest form look like joke except Baryon mode.
Boruto Anime and Manga stated 3-days limit Isshiki is strongest enemy and worst threat Era Naruto and Sasuke has ever faced.
How can you think Teen Nardo and Sauce in their fuckin' weakest form killed Jigen let alone Isshiki?
Why don't you accept Kishimoto stated Naruto and Sasuke become stronger in Era (Boruto) at interview 2016
Kaguya who stronger than Madara in his Jinchuuriki form but she get clown by Teen Naruto and Sasuke in their WEAKER form. Even 3-days limit Isshiki make Era Nardo and Sauce in their strongest form look like joke except Baryon mode.
Boruto Anime and Manga stated 3-days limit Isshiki is strongest enemy and worst threat Era Naruto and Sasuke has ever faced.
How can you think Teen Nardo and Sauce in their fuckin' weakest form killed Jigen let alone Isshiki?
Why don't you accept Kishimoto stated Naruto and Sasuke become stronger in Era (Boruto) at interview 2016
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How is Jigen stronger when he got beat by Kaguya pre chakra fruit?
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Caught off guard. Just like Zetsu did to Madara by thrusting hand. I should say like mother like son.
You see, I'm bad at English.
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Tdjwo
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Some of y'all never read the manga fr. It's even explained in the anime.
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You acting like we watch dogshit for a living. We prefer reading it instead.
Tdjwo
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It doesn't change what I said, as it was also explained in the manga.
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Pure stats and hax
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They get blitzed and one shot
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Both are the Juubi and both have the Rinnesharingan.
Still negs. Doesn't matter the length of the distraction
Source for the Otsutsuki trio being able to neg genjutsu?
It has feats. They are far superior to their regular avatars.
Isshiki's planet has identical visual elements to Earth so need a source on Earth > Isshiki's planet. Naruto can use sage mode so nature energy existing. Additionally Kurama gathered to much nature energy on Earth so you don't need Earth levels.
The duo played with Momoshiki. There was a clear difference against Jigen.
Nah that's just copium. Jigen and Isshiki were unable to deal with the points listed earlier hence why the author conveniently forgot about them. He had to nerf the duo to stop them playing table tennis with Jigen/Isshiki's body.
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Prove it.
GokuSparkle
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1. Prove that they have greater stats.
2. That's very specific
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Boil Release argument kinda stale considering it was barely useful against Kaguya, Naruto went for CQC even against Kaguya.
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The "Teen Naruto and Sasuke > Adult Versions" arguments should've been left in 2018. I got a better flaming hot take.
Boruto Era Kurama > War Arc Jyuubi.
Boruto Era Kurama > War Arc Jyuubi.
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Naruto:
Any Ninjutsu including sealing jutsus get absorbed
Boil release not a big enough amp
TSB, have a 70 meter range limit, Jigen has superior mobility with better flight and can shrink Naruto's balls
Kurama Avatar gets folded like adult naruto's
Asura Avatar can only match Indra's arrows which is weaker than Jigen (will get to that later)
Jigen has thousands of years of superior combat over Naruto
Even if you want to argue teen naruto is more creative it doesnt matter, Jigen strips naruto of a ridiculous amount of his resources, having to rely on very basic means of fighting which Jigen is just superior at, even when facing against foes like Kaguya, Naruto had still a lot of resources to pull from.
Sasuke
Ninjutsu gets countered like Naruto, Kenjutsu as well
Chibaku Tensei gets broken like fused momoshiki did or gets shrunk
Soul rip gets countered by Jigen just being stronger, like KCM did to Nagato
Teen Version of Sasuke isnt even close to Six paths Naruto Physically like his adult version
Sasuke's only option is Genjutsu which is OOC for him given that he didnt use it against Kaguya
Sasuke's Amenotejikara is significantly worse as a teen, shorter range and longer cool down
Sasuke also lacks portal creation, so neither of them have an answer for getting BFR and getting clapped separately
Indra's arrow at best if we take kurama's statement literal is Hagoromo level which is way worse than what Jigen can do, Jigen can also just shrink or BFR the arrow.
Sasuke and Naruto's best chance is to seal Jigen like they did Kaguya but that's easier said than done. Jigen still wins most of their matches.
Any Ninjutsu including sealing jutsus get absorbed
Boil release not a big enough amp
TSB, have a 70 meter range limit, Jigen has superior mobility with better flight and can shrink Naruto's balls
Kurama Avatar gets folded like adult naruto's
Asura Avatar can only match Indra's arrows which is weaker than Jigen (will get to that later)
Jigen has thousands of years of superior combat over Naruto
Even if you want to argue teen naruto is more creative it doesnt matter, Jigen strips naruto of a ridiculous amount of his resources, having to rely on very basic means of fighting which Jigen is just superior at, even when facing against foes like Kaguya, Naruto had still a lot of resources to pull from.
Sasuke
Ninjutsu gets countered like Naruto, Kenjutsu as well
Chibaku Tensei gets broken like fused momoshiki did or gets shrunk
Soul rip gets countered by Jigen just being stronger, like KCM did to Nagato
Teen Version of Sasuke isnt even close to Six paths Naruto Physically like his adult version
Sasuke's only option is Genjutsu which is OOC for him given that he didnt use it against Kaguya
Sasuke's Amenotejikara is significantly worse as a teen, shorter range and longer cool down
Sasuke also lacks portal creation, so neither of them have an answer for getting BFR and getting clapped separately
Indra's arrow at best if we take kurama's statement literal is Hagoromo level which is way worse than what Jigen can do, Jigen can also just shrink or BFR the arrow.
Sasuke and Naruto's best chance is to seal Jigen like they did Kaguya but that's easier said than done. Jigen still wins most of their matches.
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Prove a 5-A that scales to 40X their fucking AP and Dura can one shot? He spits a fucking loogie on them, they die.
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Testarossa002
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With the way the argument is being thrown around, you'll think it's an insta kill Jutsu
Harem Jutsu>>>Boil Release
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nobody biting this?
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1. Feats from Naruto and Calcs from the viki
2. Genjutsu and TSBs mainly
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Can you show me these 5A feats? How bout some moon level feats? Multi continental? country level? You atleast got some mountain level feats to share?
I can show you feats from Naruto and accepted calcs from the wiki, can you do the same for Boruto?
Godernet
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downgrade CRT when?
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What is happening in the house of commons?
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Bro got hit with the Goldion Hammer and got Baki CRT'D while losing creditibility
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Still nothing. If they are as strong as you claim, it should be pretty easy to show me their existing feats and calcs. Seems like your struggling lmao. Why is that?Yeah, do me a favor and look at his fucking profile
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What does the tier say?
Its right in front of you.
Im not struggling at all. Just read the profile or better yet here, since YOU seem to struggle with finding the AP rating, read it https://vsbattles.com/threads/award...via-shippuden-achievements-of-success.140047/
Read
Why you couldn't find this? I dont know.
GokuSparkle
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1. You keep saying stuff without any elaboration which means nothing
And you're aware scaling exists right? Isshiki scales far above characters that are above characters that scale to these calcs.2. Prove genjutsu works on Otsutsuki. And like someone else pointed out, Isshiki can literally just look at them and they'll disappear. We know TSOs aren't immune to that sort of thing either as Kakashi can warp them.
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He literally negs the versions 4x stronger than their teen selves at 10%1. You keep saying stuff without any elaboration which means nothing
2. Prove genjutsu works on Otsutsuki. And like someone else pointed out, Isshiki can literally just look at them and they'll disappear. We know TSOs aren't immune to that sort of thing either as Kakashi can warp them.
He's literally 40x stronger
GokuSparkle
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More than 4x tbh, but wdym 10%?He literally negs the versions 4x stronger than their teen selves at 10%
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I agree, just going off wiki, karma jigen is 312.8ZT, i misread that karma for 10%
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I only see factsnobody biting this?
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seth making brain dead arguments
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Seth exposed himself on stream lmao
He admitted it in 4K
He admitted it in 4K
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They can beat V1. V2 Jigen takes Teen Naruto and Sasuke to the cleaners (Isshiki is overkill).
The best way they can win is to outlast, and that's with the condition of intel.
PS & BPS could not breach a low-chakra 50% Kurama Avatar, physically. They could only achieve that with Ninjutsu. Jigen breached a full-chakra 100% Kurama Avatar with casual taijutsu (Naruto stated he easily did it), not to mention the potent near-instant expansive rods that drain chakra on contact.
Factor in teleportation, shrinking, bfr, absorption, telekinesis, space-time summoning, sealing, chakra-sensing and danger-sensing negation, etc. The guy is basically an anti-Naruto, and he knew it. That's why he wanted to take out Sasuke quickly.
Genjutsu may likely not work by virtue of partnering chakra; Parasitic Isshiki inside Jigen (though we can't tell). It'd be funny if Jigen didn't have a way of countering genjutsu.
Jigen isn't as haxxed as Kaguya (not far off, though), but his battle iq>>>>>>>>>>>
The best way they can win is to outlast, and that's with the condition of intel.
PS & BPS could not breach a low-chakra 50% Kurama Avatar, physically. They could only achieve that with Ninjutsu. Jigen breached a full-chakra 100% Kurama Avatar with casual taijutsu (Naruto stated he easily did it), not to mention the potent near-instant expansive rods that drain chakra on contact.
Factor in teleportation, shrinking, bfr, absorption, telekinesis, space-time summoning, sealing, chakra-sensing and danger-sensing negation, etc. The guy is basically an anti-Naruto, and he knew it. That's why he wanted to take out Sasuke quickly.
Genjutsu may likely not work by virtue of partnering chakra; Parasitic Isshiki inside Jigen (though we can't tell). It'd be funny if Jigen didn't have a way of countering genjutsu.
Jigen isn't as haxxed as Kaguya (not far off, though), but his battle iq>>>>>>>>>>>
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Ended with Seth admitting he was in the wrong but blaming it on his mental health. And said he gonna go and try and get therapy. He also gonna make a response video to Clyde
Noodles and the others concluded with the fact Seth is a piece of shit who's also a monster and needs mental help
Noodles and the others concluded with the fact Seth is a piece of shit who's also a monster and needs mental help
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He's a fucking fraud! he needs a crt downgrade on how good his debating skills are, considering most of his fucking feats are invalid now. Fuck that guy. im a stop before i get into the rvr
Excel616
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Why does that matter? If tiers were always accurate content revision wouldn't exist.
Still no 5A feats and calcs
The title of the thread baits it out lmao. Boruto given freebies off of naruto. Knew you couldn't point out any feats and calcs lol. The verse can't even replicate a mountain lvl feat.Im not struggling at all. Just read the profile or better yet here, since YOU seem to struggle with finding the AP rating, read it https://vsbattles.com/threads/award...via-shippuden-achievements-of-success.140047/
Read
Why you couldn't find this? I dont know.
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Prove it. Naruto scaling doesn't apply to boruto because there's no evidence for the respective characters to scale.1. You keep saying stuff without any elaboration which means nothing
Thats not how evidence works. You have to prove it doesnt
You mean like Isshiki did to Sasuke's sword lmao.
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What’s this from?
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You think the manga will ever cover his eye or nah?
GokuSparkle
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That's like saying Naruto P2 characters don't scale to P1 characters cause there's no evidence for them to scale. And anyways there is. Isshiki is stated to be the strongest villain of all, meaning he's above Kaguya and Juubidara.
No. Look at the definition of an argument from ignorance.
??? You know the reason he couldn't do that is because it was actually Boruto right?
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Cept Toneri's statement has other contradicting statements....
Momoshiki has far more consistent statements+the god damn narrative from even before Boruto started that make his case more believable
Momoshiki has far more consistent statements+the god damn narrative from even before Boruto started that make his case more believable
GokuSparkle
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Kaguya was a greater threat cause she was stronger compared to the heroes at the time.
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Toneri has to absorb Naruto's chakra ( someone stronger than him ) plus Energy from the Sun to reach Hamura's level bro
Kaguya was a greater threat cause she was stronger compared to the heroes at the time.
The same Hamura who is inferior to Kaguya even years later
There's nothing that supports Toneri being superior to Kaguya period my guy
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I do believe The Last Naruto could beat Kaguya comfortably due to several statements
But only in Six Paths mode
I don't see BSM winning
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The speed scaling and AP are dogshit, as I don't think US69 will come back anytime soon, I guess I'll start a several thread later to improve it a bit. But before that, I'll need calculations and some information. Can someone with experience in speed tell me if "information processing speed" feat scales to perception? There's an interesting calculation about Itachi's Tsukuyomi, and I remember that when it was briefly discussed, it little commented and quickly forgotten in the thread...
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Yes, that's what I was thinking. I was wondering if it scales to perception or reaction just to put it on his profile. I also don't think it scales for anyone. Someone should FTE him for some scale, and that never happened as far as I can remember.
GokuSparkle
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Is there any proof for Kaguya>Prime Hamura?
Isshiki's statement is similar
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it doesnt even matter, the Kaguya naruto and sasuke fought near the end was running on fumes.
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but can we lowkey talk about the fact that Naruto skill stomped two Otsutuski in hand to hand combat who had millennia worth of combat experience?
Godernet
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Naruto's most underrated taijutsu moment imo was when his clones were swapping hands evenly with Madara's Limbo Clones.
Fighting someone with decades of war experience and amazing taijutsu while they're completely invisible and all you have is the ability to sense their whereabouts is crazy.
Fighting someone with decades of war experience and amazing taijutsu while they're completely invisible and all you have is the ability to sense their whereabouts is crazy.
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Perception speed. ftl with Tsukuyomi
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