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Hello and in first i'm sorry if this hard to understand since i'm not really that good in English but i want to know from where this quote came from?

"The Mystic Eyes of Death Perception are useless against beings who do not possess a concept of death."

- Since we know that the mystic eyes of death allow to perceive the advanced line of death who are higher than the normal concept of death so above it. (and since we know that the line of death are the concept of death from the Root, it's show that we have at least two different level of concept of death in nasuverse. The one from the root and the normal one (surely the one from the earth like how Note explain it)

荒耶が埋め込んでい仏舎利に後れを取ったのは、アレが”いきながら入滅した”覚者のものだから。死の線で殺すには、通常の死の概念よりなん段階も高度な”死の線”を読み解かなければならない

"The reason why Araya is lagging behind the Buddha Sarari that is embedded is because it belongs to the enlightened person who went into extermination while he was alive".To kill it by the lines of death means she has to decipher advanced "lines of death" levels higher than the normal concept of death. " - TYPE-MOON Fes. Official Pamphlet 10th Anniversary Q & A Booklet

- So except if now we tell that Type have no higher level concept of death (who is tell nowhere since just tell to not have the one from earth since their don't follow the law/concept of earth) or that Tiamat don't have it too where it's not tell (we just know that she doesn't have concept of death but can be just the normal one so advanced line of death would still allow to see the one from the root) this description should not exist

- We can tell that tohno shiki wouldn't be able to kill them because he can't see the advanced line of death nor be able to see the lines of thing can not be perceived on things that can't be killed (destroyed) in the current world (like Type or Night of the Wallachia)

"He cannot see lines on things that are unable to be killed or destroyed in the current world because the standard for Shiki, as a human, is based on the limits of the people of his era." - TSUKIHIME Dictionary: Mystic Eyes of Death Perception [Unusual talent], p.184

- But for shiki is show that with effort she will be able to see them and araya tell that she will be able to cut it down too because even if it not have the normal concept of death it have a function and a cause. And he notes that she can cut off the root of motion on anything alive or dead as long as it has that motion, even thing like his arm that don't have the normal concept of death.

  • She too doesn't show/be tell to have the limitation of tohno that show that he cannot see lines on things that are unable to be killed or destroyed in the current world because the standard for Shiki, as a human, is based on the limits of the people of his era.
  • So she should be able to perma kill Night of whallachia, even more when she specialised in killing concept when shiki tohno can only kill part of nature/concept in a restricted area

"Strongly, harder than she had ever done before, Shiki glares at the man. Her brain may have overheated, because she observed the opponent till a portion of her consciousness went white, only then could she see it. ... In the centre of his body, she can see a hole in the middle of his chest. Going round and round like some child's scribbling the line is drawing a circle at one point. That might explain why it looks like a dot." - Kara no Kyoukai Paradox Spiral.

"Indeed, I was foolish. I should have had all the proof I needed after the events at the hospital. Whether it is dead or alive, if it moves you cut off the root of that motion. That is your ability. Even if I am a stopped organism, as long I exist like this there is a thread that permits my existence. If that is cut I would definitely die. The unique exception is this left arm, but even that can't be hidden forever. No matter which saint's bone it is as long as it functions there will always be a cause for that movement." - Kara no Kyoukai Paradox Spiral

- And we can't use the thing of her not being able to see the death in archetype earth in her since she was still talking about being able to take her down and that we know that she can't actively see the advanced line of death if she don't try hard enough to let her conscious go praticaly white + we know that the line of death of a people that the user don't understand is not visible (so it's not a limitation of the eyes but of the user like what shiki see depend on what she considere alive and that view can change in measure of her understanding more thing)

"In order to see the Lines of Death of minerals or Concepts, she either has to become minerals, or use her brain and tap into her "imagination".
In summary, the end (lines) of an existence that humans cannot comprehend is not visible." - Kara no Kyoukai Special Pamphlet - Encyclopedia: Line of Death [Others], p.032

"For Shiki [Ryougi], if the opponent can be recognized as "living" (not "life", but "live"), she can see the lines of death. For example, the ghosts in Overlooking View were dead, but they were "living" in the sense that they can interfere with the current world." - TYPE-MOON Fes. Official Pamphlet 10th Anniversary Q & A Booklet:




All of that to tell that it's not a limitation of the power but of the user, so don't have to tell that the mystic eyes is useless against being with no concept of death.
 
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Seems pretty logic to me.

So basically it should be changed to something "limites by the user's perception of death" with explanation on Ryougi and Tohno profile about their own?
 
.....didn't know that the profile says that its the weakness of MEoDP that they cant use it on someone who doesn't have concept of death. So I agree with the changes.
 
Seems pretty logic to me.

So basically it should be changed to something "limites by the user's perception of death" with explanation on Ryougi and Tohno profile about their own?
Yes since we know that how their perceive and understand live/death let them use in a different or better way the power (for shiki tohno, ryougi shiki and even saber/void shiki)
 
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And we need to make the immortality negation of shiki ryougi in her profile too since she not have it. She should had immortality negation 1,2,3,7,8 like shiki tohno and we need to add the

4 for the two because the two shiki can kill michael permanentaly who can reincarnated and the np of shiki tell it too.

"It is absolutely permanent, and can't be reversed or bypassed, even by Michael Roa Valdamjong's system that allowed him to be reincarnated seventeen times over eight hundred years."

"Vijnapti-Matrata・Chokushi no Magan"
Rank:   Type: Anti-Unit Noble Phantasm
Range: 1  Maximum Targets: 1 person
Yuishiki・Chokushi no Magan.
An attack that opens the mystic eyes of direct death to maximum and severs the target's "lines of death".
Regardless of possessing a life-span of some millions, recovery powers that resuscitate you from a interrupted state or a stock of lives of some hundreds, because it exposes "the concept of death in regards to that specimen",

6 is because they not only able to kill the body/soul/mind but the concept of the being/existence too so the existence should not be able to possessed an other guy since it's his own existence that was killed

5 for shiki ryougi when overheat her brain to let her see the advanced line of death who let her see the death of people that are above the normal concept of death.

And shiki ryougi should have a limited negation for type 9 because she can kill the true body from the shadow/avatar.

.

And for the negation of regen it should be to high godly since you need to regen from being conceptualy erased/killed and that they need to reinvente the conceptual structure of their existence because the ancient have get his function ceased (so even if you able to regen it, his function will still be ceased)
 
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Not sure for type 6, and you should try tu record High Godly part.

Otherwise it's all fine to me
 
.


Here it's tell that shiki can kill the concept of "you"

For the negate to high godly (don't tell that it's negate high godly but all regen up to high godly and that if high godly people regen based from their old concept their function will still be ceased)

Arceuid needed that to regen

"she manages to regenerate by completely reinventing the conceptual structure of her body, abandoning the conceptual structure that had been traced."

"There can be a number of them on an object, and, whereas the lines are "where things die easily", the points are "death itself." The eyes do not actually kill "the body", as the power of killing someone's life is very common in the world. The "points" seen by the eyes end the very meaning, the "existence", of whatever is "killed." The destruction, the extinguishing of life that comes afterward, is only a side effect of destroying their existence. Striking the point makes the entity completely cease to function. What "makes a living person a living person" or what "makes a hallway a hallway" is ended in the simplest way, unraveling its existence and making it no more."


"Ryougi Shiki's ESP. Although it has some characteristics that are similar to the Mystic Eyes in magecraft, it is classified as an ESP.
Eyes of Direct Death allows the user to perceive the the conceptual "Death of an Existence" as visual signals."

"You don't seem to understand. Shiki, your eyes do not kill the body, but the meaning... existence itself."

The reincarnation of michael work like type 6 too and shiki was able to permanently kill him



 
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Oh yeah need to add that her conceptual manip is type 2 since manip the concept of death from the root is superior to the normal one and that concept from the root transcend all reality.

Too many thing to change for her lol
 
Pretty sure that thing really need a scan.

Because the root is pretty important. Its also needed for the tier 1 stuff.
 
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For what one?

For the concept of death of her eyes allowing her to see line of death above the normal one like t's tell in the type moon FES and that i show before (so at least it show that the mystic eyes who is the concept of death of existence is a concept of higher order than the normal concept of death)

荒耶が埋め込んでい仏舎利に後れを取ったのは、アレが”いきながら入滅した”覚者のものだから。死の線で殺すには、通常の死の概念よりなん段階も高度な”死の線”を読み解かなければならない

"The reason why Araya is lagging behind the Buddha Sarari that is embedded is because it belongs to the enlightened person who went into extermination while he was alive".To kill it by the lines of death means she has to decipher advanced "lines of death" levels higher than the normal concept of death. "
- TYPE-MOON Fes. Official Pamphlet 10th Anniversary Q & A Booklet

Here for the part that the eyes allow shiki to see the concept of death from the root directly and the description of the root and him being the begginning and the creator of all thing.



And we have explaination of origin that are concept that are from the root

•The absoluteness called Origin

If alignment determines the root of one's magic, then even deeper than that, is the origin which determined the root of one's existence. The origin is not only for magi, but is the orientation that all things are born with and it's existence itself is thought absolutely necessary.
- Fate/complete material III: World Material - Theory of Magic - Magecraft: Magus, p.041

Origin [Others]
The direction of everything that arose from fundamental cause. The α that enabled the existence of α, the absolute order that existed at the very core.
For instance, something with the Origin of "taboo", regardless of being born as a human, animal, or plant, would always exist to go against the morals established by the collective.
- Kara no Kyoukai Special Pamphlet - Encyclopedia: Origin [Others], p.029-030

Would it need more explanation?
 
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What would need to be more explained for allow the concept type 2 for the mystic eyes of death exactly for let me search if i can find it ?
 
For the concept part, that thing is enough most likely.

It seems the other scans for the 「 」 arent important atm......
 
So have you accepted this Promestein?
 
Can you summarise what you want to do here in an easy to understand manner please?
 
The weakness of "not being able to kill beings wuthout a conceot of death" should be changed to "limited by the user's perception of death", with appropriate description for Tohno and Ryougi

Ryougi should get Immortality Negation (All types) with the weakness of needing to overheat her brain for type 5 while Tohno gets everything but 5 and 9

Both also get High Godly regeneration negation

And Ryougi gets type 2 Conceptual Manipulation
 
The weakness of "not being able to kill beings wuthout a conceot of death" should be changed to "limited by the user's perception of death", with appropriate description for Tohno and Ryougi

Ryougi should get Immortality Negation (All types) with the weakness of needing to overheat her brain for type 5 while Tohno gets everything but 5 and 9

Both also get High Godly regeneration negation

And Ryougi gets type 2 Conceptual Manipulation
Thank you. Do you find this acceptable @Promestein @Dragonmasterxyz?
 
Please do not bump several times in a single day.
 
Unsure about High-Godly negation. Arcueid creates a new body, yes; she does not have to have created a whole new conceptual structure to do so. Shiki destroyed the concept of her original body; not of any and every body. This body and that body share the broad concept of Arcueid's body / body in general, but do not have the same individual concepts.
 
I feel like considering Shiki killed Roa so hard with MEoDP that he can never reincarnate again, meaning he killed the concept of Roa forever, for all bodies, its not too much of a stretch to say he killed the overarching concept of Arcueid. Nasu doesn't really do a "concept of this body of this person" its usually just the overall "concept of you" like in the scan above.

Although to be fair with the Roa example, it was a point he hit as opposed to slashing lines, so eh.
 
Don't know if this can help to complete what i have show with the need of a new conceptual structure but in the manga, she specifically tell to have to reconfigure her system all of over again (surely mention the system of the concept of her body since it was that, that was sliced) and that even with that, the cut that shiki made can't be recover/regenerated so she try hard to get herself keep together.

(And well i thing weird that she tell herself that he kill existence, that he can kill concept of a being but just for her he have just kill the concept of her body when he was bloodlusted when see her the first time)

And we know that, was him just cut line of death and not even point of death.




And Arceuid tell that too when facing roa


You don't seem to understand. Shiki, your eyes do not kill the body, but the meaning... existence itself.
The death of things, those "points" are not something that kills the body.
It does not mean you are killing their life. That kind of power is very common in this world.

"Shiki, your unique eyes, they kill the meaning of things. What is destroyed is the existence. The extinguishing of life is only a side effect that comes afterwards.

That's what I love about Shiki. Anybody that can kill existential concepts is alright in my book
 
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I am fine with Promestein's conclusions. Thank you for helping out.
 
I am fine with Promestein's conclusions. Thank you for helping out.
So all the rest is okay, since she doesn't have problem with that

We can go to at least Mid godly negation since they can conceptualy erase the being it include their concept as a being, their soul etc like michael roa and chaos show. For the high godly even if they regen, they still should still have the problem with the wound since like i show even after arceuid reconfigure her system of the concept of her body all over again, she had still the wound and needed thing to keep herself together and she was not be able to recover entirely the lost in her mind/personnality losing a big part as her ancient herself


It's fine antvasima?
 
Please check here for editing instructions:


 
Can i let someone like YukiAkuto to do the edit if he okay with it? I'm really not good with that lol
 
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