My Little Pony's Ignored Rule Regarding the Comics

[Lightbuster30]

Something that's been bugging me immensely is the fact that we've been ignoring the rules set forth by Hasbro regarding the relationship between the My Little Pony Cartoon and the Comics. Let's get something clear here: Why do we not use comic feats? Because the comics were said by Big Jim to be separate from the show. Fair point, but the as far as Hasbro is concerned, the comics are canon to the cartoon unless the cartoon does something that contradicts it.

So what does that mean? Well it means if the comics do one thing and the show does anything that contradicts that those events, then those events are no longer canon. Like Discord being a Cutie Mark Crusader in IDW even though the Crusaders in canon, do not like the guy. This doesn't automatically render the entirety of the comics non-canon. Just those specific comic books. Under this rule; even though Jim says the comics are separate, we can apply any feat from the comics to the show as long as the show hasn't contradicted them, since under Hasbro's ruling the non-contradicted comics are still part of the cartoon canon.

This is a simple rule to follow. Figuring out which comics can be applied and which ones don't is not complicated, especially now that the cartoon has ended and cannot contradict the comics anymore.

So why was this rule rejected?

Basically? People want some proof that what is said by Hasbro to be consistent with what is shown in the series. The problem? This is batshit insane! Do the people who brought up this rule as an argument even know why it exists in the first place? It's to keep ludicrous statements such as say; lightspeed Water Fang Bullet techniques from Narutoverse for example, from getting getting accepted. Because surprise surprise: Databooks; even ones written by the creator/creators of the series, are notoriously inconsistent and have exaggerated feats in the past.

But this? What we're talking about now? This isn't like some exaggerated feat where the author tries to claim a something like a mountain busting bomb is actually galaxy level. No, what this is, is the owners of two franchises telling Andy Price a rule regarding the canonicity of two related franchises that they own, to each other. It wasn't even Hasbro telling a pestering fan the rule, it was them telling this rule to a guy who works for them. Why on Earth would this qualify for the same flippant and exaggerated claims made by other authors? It's idiotic and pedantic as all hell.

Even more complaints against this is someone claiming that Hasbro is not involved with and does not pay attention to what goes on in the comics, which is a big fat lie considering Hasbro approves of everything that comes out of the franchise, including the comic series.

And who cares if the cartoon has consistently contradicted the comics? This just means that a lot of comics are non-canon. This does not in any shape or form, debunk or go against what Hasbro has said. If anything, the contradictions are following said rule to a T. Explain how the comics getting contradicted go against this rule or stop bringing it up as an argument.

In short, I believe the comics that have yet to be rendered non-canon by the cartoon, should be treated as canon like Hasbro has told Andy. I'm not suggesting we merge the entirety of the IDW and show versions of MLP, only selectively merge individual comics if the show hasn't done anything to render them non-canon.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

I mean, yeah, this seems solid enough to me. I don't think I have anything to add atm besides agreeing that verses are treated somewhat inconsistently on this wiki (possibly due to biases) and that I simply agree.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

I agree, we use a similar rule regarding the Steven Universe comics/games, it should apply to MLP too.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

We have already talked about this many times, and reached the same decision every time.

The comics repeatedly contradict the TV show, and the writers of the main canon evidently do not care about taking them into account. This is our standard procedure for these types of situations. Bothering us over and over about this issue to get higher statistics is not acceptable. We even have a rule against it in the case of MLP.

I will close this thread. I am extremely overworked, and do not remotely have the available time and energy to deal with it again.

I would appreciate if you do not ever bring up this topic again. Thank you.

 

[Promestein]

You're not the only person on the wiki, Ant, and you don't need to participate in every thread. It's a worthwhile conversation to have.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we have talked about this many times before, and even have a rule against this specific conversation at this point.

In addition I am about to fall over from exhaustion in general, and cannot handle much more effort in this regard.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Well, we have talked about this many times before, and even have a rule against this specific conversation at this point.
In addition I am about to fall over from exhaustion in general, and cannot handle much more effort in this regard.

I've brought up this rule by Hasbro like once. Maybe twice.

 

[Promestein]

Go to bed, then, Ant.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that there have been more times than that, and others have tried to pressure me about it as well.

Anyway, from what I recall, Azathoth and I both gauged that the comics repeatedly severely contradict the main canon, and as such should be considered separate, as they are all connected to each other, just like the various Dragon Ball spinoffs in different types of media, which are also approved by the owners, but are nevertheless part of their own separate continuities.

In addition, I also recall that there were some official statements that the comics are not a part of the TV show continuity, but that is less important.

 

[Antvasima]

@Promestein

I will soon, but I don't want bad precedents regarding randomly mixing up different continuities from different types of media to be set for the wiki.

 

[Promestein]

Sleeping today won't make that happen.

 

[Antvasima]

Basically, if the TV show references a story from the comicbooks, we can consider that part of the main canon, but given the constant severe contradictions between the comicbooks and the TV show, and that the comicbooks are all connected to each other as far as I understand, we cannot integrate them into a cohesive whole any more than the main Dragon Ball continuity with the movies, games, DBGT, and other spinoffs.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I will go to sleep in a little while. I hope that this thread does not blow up any of our standards in the meantime.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The Comics are indeed a different continuity than the main canon, which I also recall DarkAnine said it as well. There are references here and there, but not enough to merge than canonicities or cross scale. And Prom is right that it isn't worth the over stress, some of us other staff can help out in saying why we don't cross scale.

 

[EMagoIorSouI]

I'm neutral about this, but Ant I think you shouldn't always exhaust yourself on these sort of threads. Yes, I'm always up for MLP revisions, but I've noticed you continously pop up on these with barely any time to rest. Maybe take it off a little bit and alternate between threads with other staff members like Promstein?

 

[Antvasima]

@Magolor

The other staff members have largely been busy with schoolwork in recent months, so I have had to exert myself more than previously in taking care of discussions, and topics that might set bad precedents for the structure of the wiki require my attention.

 

[Antvasima]

@Medeus

Thank you for the help.

 

[Lightbuster30]

We have already talked about this many times, and reached the same decision every time.

I really don't think it's been many times. I've looked for every thread involving My Little Pony and IDW and have seen extremely few threads about the canocity of the My Little Pony comics, much less Hasbro's statement which I'm bringing up.

The Comics are indeed a different continuity than the main cano, which I also recall DarkAnine said it as well.

This is not my main point. Why, do people feel so badly, the need to bring it up like it is? I ask for the third time: How does this contradict what has been said to Andy? How? No matter how many times I see this brought up I fail to see how this contradicts anything. I get it: Big Jim called them separate, I don't get why that automatically throws what Hasbro said out the window.

I've talked with Darkanine on this recently and told him about this and he seemed neutral on the subject afterwards. Can't speak for him directly, but he definitely didn't give me vibes that he was against this.

Promestein"]
You're not the only person on the wiki, Ant, and you don't need to participate in every thread. It's a worthwhile conversation to have.[/quote]
I cannot tell you how much I appreciate unlocking this. Thank you.

 

[Js250476]

If I may give some input on the situation I agree the comics and show have to many differences to merge them or anything of that nature. But I feel the canon til the show explicitly contradicts it is fine to use if that's what Hasbro's canonical policy is.

For example Siege of Crystal Empire can't be canon cause season 9's premier contradicts the ending of the arc with Sombra being reformed. Legends of Magic on the other hand can be canon since it introduced characters that the show would later incorporate namely the Pillars of Equestria in fact season 7 was when the comics and show were most connected. With the Shadowlock arc reveling and building up the Pony of Shadows. And several comics actually tie into episodes (for example the issue where Pinkie Pie controls the chaos realm takes place directly after the episode Discordant Harmony)

So TLDR I'm fine if comics that remind consistent with the show's lore and that Lightbuster makes sense.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Several plot elements of Season 7; be they minor or major, wouldn't even exist without Legends of Magic. Seriously, Rockhoof's entire backstory in the cartoon was built on a line from the comics.

 

[Antvasima]

The point is that the official stance of his wiki is to not mix the continuities of spin-offs with the main source material if they repeatedly contradict and are not referenced by said main canon. Period. This is not going to change. My apologies.

Also, unless you have an official policy statement by Hasbro the company itself regarding that the writers of the TV show read all of the comicbooks and try to adapt their stories accordingly, we cannot remotely take what some random employee says as gospel, and even if there was such a statement, it would still strongly contradict the practical reality.

 

[Antvasima]

If there are specific storylines that are adapted from or referenced from the comicbooks, then we can use them, but the sum totality is too unreliable to use, whether it is King Sombra's backstory or otherwise.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Nah. I just thinm y'all are inconsistent in how you treat verses and have biases. This show took ******* forever to gain 4-C ratings for the God tiers or even anything beyond MCB for a while because y'all were so against it for some reason.

 

[Antvasima]

No. There are separate comicbook profiles with High 3-A ratings. This is about not setting a bad precedent that it is fine to mix continuities that repeatedly contradict each other.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Also, unless you have an official policy statement by Hasbro the company itself regarding that the writers of the TV show read all of the comicbooks and try to adapt their stories accordingly, and even if there was such a statement, it would still strongly contradict the practical reality.

They. Don't. Have. To. What is so hard to get about that?

In short, I believe the comics that have yet to be rendered non-canon by the cartoon, should be treated as canon like Hasbro has told Andy. I'm not suggesting we merge the entirety of the IDW and show versions of MLP, only selectively merge individual comics if the show hasn't done anything to render them non-cano.

This is what I'm advocating for.
whether it is King Sombra's backstory or otherwise.
And do you know what we do with these stories following what Hasbro told Andy? We throw them out.

 

[Antvasima]

Again, I am extremely busy with other tasks, but mixing continuities from different mediums that constantly contradict each other sets a very bad and unworkable precedent for the wiki.

Regardless what some people at Hasbro or IDW think, the evidence contradicts the interpretation that the comicbooks and TV show follow the same timeline, just like we do not randomly mix up the Dragon Ball continuities, or try to treat other franchises the same way. This is our standard procedure. We cannot give MLP special treatment in this regard without other members demanding that we should create composite profiles for our other characters as well.

You can blame the TV show and comicbook writers for not doing a better job of coordinating their efforts, if a shared continuity was genuinely the intention, but we cannot properly fit them together as it is.

And no, I do not have a problem with separate profiles for the IDW versions with much higher statistics than the TV show. Again, I simply do not want you to mess up the standard procedure for the entire wiki. That is all. My apologies, but I am extremely unlikely to ever budge regarding this issue.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm in agreement with Antvasima here. And looking at that twitter post, Andy saying "Just enjoy the comic for what it is until Hasbro says otherwise". I don't really see whether or not they describe it as canon, but simply him saying that it's a fun comic that exists for what it is regardless. But on the other hand, the canonicities are often contradicted and many characters do have a lot more altered personalities from the cartoons. So, the IDW comics absolutely need to be separated from the main series.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the support Medeus.

 

[Lightbuster30]

I'm in agreement with Antvasima here.

Of course you are. Still waiting on how these inconsistencies between the cartoon and comic debunks what Hasbro say. None of you have shown any evidence for it. You just keep going "It's too inconsistent" while not explaining the connection between the inconsistencies and the rule itself.

You do realize that the show is allowed to contradict the comics under this rule right? While still allowing all the others to be canon? No literally, I don't get how something so simple is so hard to understand.

Regardless what some people at Hasbro or IDW think, the evidence contradicts the interpretation that the comicbooks and TV show follow the same timeline

Oh for the love of. Is this a joke? Hasbro knows they are separate. The fact that they acknowledge the cartoon can contradict the comic series shows this.
just like we do not randomly mix up the Dragon Ball continuities, or try to treat other franchises the same way. This is our standard procedure. We cannot give MLP special treatment in this regard without other members demanding that we should create composite profiles for our other characters as well.
My Little Pony. Is not. Dragonball. It is not any of the series or franchises you've listed in this thread or in the past. Would you like to tell me where Toriyama says where, oh, say, GT is canon to Super as long as Super doesn't contradict the events of GT? No? You don't have the statement? Then stop bringing it up. That's called a false equivalency.
If My Little Pony is said by the company owners to have a different stance on canon than most other franchises then why shouldn't it be an exception? If one series has rules that differ from our standard conventions then we should toss their rule out instead of making the rule work? That is completely unfair and biased.

You can blame the TV show and comicbook writers for not doing a better job of coordinating their efforts, if a shared continuity was genuinely the intention, but we cannot properly fit them together as it is.
Oh, we absolutely can. You just don't want to give the idea the time of day. That's not on Hasbro or their workers.

And no, I do not have a problem with separate profiles for the IDW versions with much higher statistics than the TV show.
And yet you felt the need to bring up "higher statistics" when they ought to be completely irrelevant here.

 

[Antvasima]

You need to calm down, make an effort to stay polite, and respect our decisions.

As I have explained previously, this isn't just about My Little Pony. It is about the standard conventions for the entire wiki, that you risk to cause serious damage to by relentlessly pushing for merging continuities that are fundamentally incompatible in terms of continuity, regardless of that it would set a terrible precedent and encourage lots of other members to try to get us to accept other alternative media spin-offs that do not fit with the main storyline.

As far as I remember, what we wrote in the Discussion Rules is that only the comicbook stories that have been explicitly referenced by the cartoon can be considered as canon, which is the opposite of the approach that you are advocating.

Dragon Ball is just one example among others of spin-offs that contradict the main continuity being unacceptable to fuse together for composite profiles. It is far from a false equivalency, and simply intended to illustrate our general approach.

As far as I understand, you do even not have any official press release statement from Hasbro about this to base your case on, just a casual unconfirmed reply to a fan question. These are considered unreliable by our regulations to start with.

Also, again, the IDW profiles are fine, and should be enough to satisfy your wishes for high MLP statistics. I do not see why this is such an unbearable state of things for you.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@LightBuster, we don't consider what any of their staff say on twitter to be Word of God; only if both companies got together and gave an official stamp in confirmation. Also, I don't see the comment in what they were responding to. Also going to paste what DarkAnine said on another thread.

Comics are def not canon. They're consistently described as a secondary continuity, not secondary canon. Which given the radical changes like Sombra's fate, the appearance of Holiday and Lofty and lots of other minor changes, makes the most sense.

 

[Lightbuster30]

You ask me to calm down and act as though I'm being unreasonable, even though in your very next paragraph, you bring up the exact same arguments I addressed in my last comment. I've given you my explanations and you repeated the almost the same lines I just argued against. Do you not see the problem I have with this? Have you re-read your first reaction and response to this thread? Would you call that respectful if it were someone else? It's difficult to be respectful when I myself don't feel respected.

I know about your rule and don't agree with it. I didn't discover this new information until long after the rule was made.

You are again repeating already addressed arguments. Is there a statement for "canon until contradicted" about these other series you mentioned? And for the record: Yes, it is false equivalence. You're attempting to refute my claim by using Dragonball spin-offs as a comparison to the comics, when they are not following the same statements about canonicity as the comics. The comparison is broken and does not work.

Unreliable? Unconfirmed? Casual? Excuse me? The only thing you have for this tweet being unreliable is the fact that it came from twitter and that's it. Where is evidence that Andy is talking out of thin air in the same way an Author answering questions would wind up wanking the power of a character's attack? Stuff like that is a big reason for why the rule exists. But you have nothing supporting this applies to Andy except for your own words. You calling them unreliable doesn't have anything backing it up.

If it's so unreliable then why have multiple staff members; including Big Jim, referenced what has been said to Andy? Clearly their staff members are aware of it. It's consistently been the answer almost every time the question about comics being canon is brought up.

This has nothing to do with higher statistics. It just so happens, that in light of new this information, I find our old rule to be unreliable and incorrect. This is about correctness, not statistics. Don't assume my motives for this thread. I don't even like the idea of the main profiles being High 3-A for more personal reasons. That does not mean I agree with separating the near entirety of the comic series when we have a real way to make it work.

 

[Antvasima]

This is getting tiresome, and I do not have much time, focus, and energy to waste on it. I have already explained why this is explicitly against our standards and a potentially dangerous precedent for the wiki as a whole.

I would appreciate if you please stop disrespecting our important regulations/conventions and pushing for this for this change out of narrowminded lack of concern for the harm that it would cause in a wider perspective. Thank you.

This is not going to be accepted, so I would much prefer to close this discussion, and that it is not repeated again.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, I had no intention to disrespect you on a personal level. I am simply worried about that you are pushing for ignoring our rules and setting damaging precedents.

 

[Lightbuster30]

I've been chatting with Promestein, and she doesn't think it's setting a bad precendent to use it.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, in addition to what I mentioned earlier, we have a new rule against using composite profiles, and I still think that what you suggest would encourage other members to mix continuities that do not fit together for other verses, so as such we should preferably keep the profiles separate and close this thread. Thanks.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Well, in addition to what I mentioned earlier, we have a new rule against using composite profiles, and I still think that what you suggest would encourage other members to mix continuities that do not fit together for other verses, so as such we should preferably keep the profiles separate and close this thread. Thanks.

I've been watching that thread, and it appears that depending on how the canon rules operates, composites can still be used. This isn't even a composite to begin with. It's treating very specific comics as canon under very specific circumstances. And as I've repeatedly stated: The rule is apparently official enough to be well known throughout their staff members.

In addition, certain comic book lines not only are stated to be tied into one of the Seasons of the main series, but directly influence it's events. Mind you, this was confirmed not only as a promotional tagline, but by Bobby Curnow himself in a Q&A. The composites rule would require My Little Pony to ignore issues that influence the mane canon.

I still don't see why it encourages other members to do the same. You could just add a rule that explains why the My Little Pony comics are being treated the way they are, and thus people should not try doing the same for other verses.

 

[Lightbuster30]

I've also contacted Promestein on the issue of the new compositing rules. She also agrees with me on this point.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I strongly disapprove of mixing continuities that have been firmly established to contradict each other several times over. Sorry, but I am not budging regarding this. It isn't about the statistics. It is about enforcing consistent workable standards.

Also, isn't Promestein mostly uninformed about this series? I have watched all of it, and read quite a lot of the comicbooks.