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TheRustyOne

VS Battles
Calculation Group
10,409
10,994
Alright, time to bite the bullet. Recent calcs have called for a change from our current stats. Along with some new scaling and revisions I want to bring up for some characters.

First off, the base upgrades from the new calculations.

7-A+ becomes High 7-A, Class T becomes Class P, and High Hypersonic+ becomes Massively Hypersonic.

Wolfram's Giant Cube Attack: 3.69 Gigatons of TNT (Large Mountain level+)

Edit Downgrade: Wolfram's Giant Cube Attack: 174.35 Megatons of TNT (Mountain level)

This feat has become worthless AP wise. However this is still an upgrade in Lifting Strength and we do have a slight AP upgrade I need to mention.

100% Deku's Air Pressure shockwave has been calculated as 7-A+: 748.01 Megatons of TNT (Mountain level+)

This is 8% Deku during the Joint Training Arc as well and he's gotten much stronger now that his new limit is 30%.

I bring this up is because Ryukyu was dead center from Deku's 100% Wyoming Smash, which also produced a massive shockwave. Ryukyu didn't even move and wasn't bothered by this air pressure attack, despite her arms already being broken she held her ground. This air pressure attack should be much stronger than the 7-A+ rating when Deku could only use 8% without hurting himself.

As such, Ryukyu should have 7-A+ durability for withstanding a shockwave that was stronger than 748.01 MT without any issues at all. This would upgrade everyone from 638 MT they scale to right now, to 748.01 MT. This scales to Endeavor as he can take a hit from Shigaraki and took less damage than Ryukyu.


Edit: Due to issues with the above, we're now suggesting Ryukyu to be At most 7-A+ or 550 MT via downscaling. As she is capable of stopping Shigaraki's jump, causing light damage to High-Ends, and could withstand an attack that harmed Endeavor and was able to get back after a short time of being knocked out.

Also since Ryukyu is capable of stopping Shigaraki's jump, who was moving faster than normal. This means she is Massively Hypersonic as well,.

Now I'll also mention Mirko's durability, which is lower than her legs. Mirko takes heavy damage from being thrown by a High-End, even when she softened the impact with her legs. So her base durability should be at most 7-A+, which will be baseline or 550 MT.

Jeanist should be as well, at least for durability. He was capable of taking AFO's Air Cannon attack at point blank range. However he was greatly injured and used his Quirk to move, that's why I believe he should be at most 7-A+. Yes AFO pierced through him right after, but that was clearly due to piercing damage.

The attack was much smaller and covered far less area. In case you're wondering, yes he does use the Air Cannon Combination. The anime shows this clearly, and this evidence is acceptable as long as it doesn't contradict anything. Jeanist having this durability doesn't have any contradictions to my knowledge.

Now there are some characters who aren't 7-A+ but I believe should be scaling to 7-A+ now. I'll be explaining this here.

Dabi and Geten: Now this one should be pretty simple. In the Heroes Rising movie, Dabi is shown to be able to match Endeavor's Jetburn without using Flashfire Fist. We know Endeavor was serious because after that failed he instantly went to use his strongest attack, Prominence Burn. Something he does not use recklessly, meaning Dabi did indeed match his fire power.

This is not a surprise, Dabi's Flashfire Fist is stated to surpass Endeavor's multiple times. The idea of his non Flashfire First, Blueflame, being on par with Endeavor isn't unreasonable. Geten would scale to this as he was shown to evenly clash with Dabi for a long period of time, with none of them seemingly getting one up on the other. As such both of them should be 7-A+.

This does scale to Cementoss who was able to fight Geten offscreen and took each other out.

Now this does bring up one issue, but it's easy to explain. Mt. Lady fights against Geten, even takes a big hit from him. Yes this would upgrade her to 7-A+ as well, however people have mention the issue of Mt. Lady being one shotted by All For One. Which means she can't be 7-A+. However I disagree with this. First off AFO's statement is incorrect. While he says the attack was suppose to kill them, Best Jeanist survived being hit by it. And it wasn't like Jeanist threw Mt. Lady and the others far away. They still got caught up with the attack.

Mt. Lady is actually the closest to AFO. There's also another big point to consider. This happened a long time ago, Mt. Lady is a rookie Pro Hero who hasn't even been around for two years yet. I think the idea of her growing stronger than she was in Kamino isn't unreasonable. Losing in Kamino and being inspired by Endeavor, her becoming stronger shouldn't be unbelievable. As such I'm suggesting splitting her into two keys, U.A. Beginning Saga and Final Act Saga.

Her first key rating comes from overpowering the Tool Arms Nomu, which was stated by Magne to be capable of producing the earthquake she felt. Magne clearly says there are two people in their squad that has the power to produce that earthquake, the fact she instantly singles out Muscular as being the leak means the other person cannot leak this information.

Considering no one else in the squad has high raw power, she must be talking about the Nomu. Since it obviously cannot speak or leak details and possess enhanced strength. While we can say Magne doesn't know Muscular full power, meaning we don't scale Tool Arms to 7-A+. She is confident that the Nomu could produce that earthquake, which has been accepted as being 8-B+.

While it's hard to tell in manga form, the anime clearly show that Tool Arms is actively trying to break out of Mt. Lady's grasp. Considering Mt. Lady is casually overpowering this Nomu, I think she can upscale to baseline 8-A. Which is less than a 1.2X different from 86.04 Tons of TNT.

100% One For All Lifting Strength: 4,014,682,957,110 Tons (Class P)

Edit Downgrade: 100% One For All Lifting Strength: 93,006,374,246 Metric Tons (Class T)

This is still an upgrade, just not to Class P.

100% Deku and All Might get into a struggle against Wolfram's cube and we can see they're all constantly applying force, I know some people have issue with this due to them being the air. However they are having a struggling, regardless of logic there is no getting around that point. They clash and continue to push against each other. Even assuming this is only striking strength, their own strikes have been withstood by people they can grapple with, such as Muscular and All For One respectively.

I'm fine with scaling this to their lifting strength.

Shigaraki Disperses Clouds: 63 Megatons or 176 Megatons of TNT (City level+ to Mountain level)

A nice supporting feat, considering this didn't harm Star and Stripe whatsoever. The worst it did was blind her and move her off Shigaraki.

100% Deku and Bakugo's Air Pressure Speed: Mach 133.10 (Massively Hypersonic)

Along with the fact that Shigaraki, Garaki's masterpiece, should at least on par with Nine. Shigaraki has speed on par with Weakened All Might and the USJ Nomu, so yeah they all scale. So anyone who scales to High Hypersonic+ currently will become Massively Hypersonic.

These are sandboxes of all the changes for the Heroes, Villains, and the Verse Page.

You can see that I removed some keys from All Might, due to them being pointless. Any gap between his weakened selves is incredibly insignificant. So keys for his Prime and Weakened self would be better. There is no reason to separate him into more than two keys. Unless anyone has any legit reasons to keep them in.

Now I'm sure you noticed that Endeavor, Dabi, and Shoto aren't in my sandboxes. I have a reason for that and I need to bring this up now.

This is something I wanted to do for awhile and I'm finally going to make good on my promise.

You can see their sandboxes here. Please read what I've written below, this is a pretty big point I've been trying to make for awhile.

Now if you look at Shoto, Endeavor, Tetsutetsu, or any character who has resistance to fire/cold in this verse. You'll usually see a rating in their durability that says Blank level against Ice/Cold/Fire/Heat attack. As a way of showing their resistance towards certain level of attacks. This seems to make sense at a glance.

However this is wrong, as this rating doesn't actually tell us how heat resistant someone is. Let me explain. Damage caused via heat/cold happens because of extreme temperature. High temperature burns/melt and low temperature freezes. The energy that it takes to produce that heat/cold doesn't translate into temperature automatically.

Obviously higher/lower temperature would give off more energy. However size/volume is a major factor here as well.

Example: Character A can produce fire that can instantly melt through steel. Character B can produce a fire that can't melt steel, but can melt copper. In this case Character A's fire is superior correct? They can melt things Character B's fire cannot melt, as it has a higher temperature.

However Character B's fire is calculated at High 8-C levels of energy, while Character A's fire is only 9-A. People who tank Character B's fire are given High 8-C durability towards fire attacks, while Character A's fire is only 9-A. This implies that Character A's fire cannot harm those who can tank Character B's fire.

This is incorrect. As heat/cold damages via extreme temperature, the more extreme temperature will do more damage. Character B's fire has a higher rating because the area that fire covers is greater than what Character A's fire can cover. Yes Character B's fire does require more energy to create, however it isn't because it's hotter, it's because it's bigger. The flame are still incapable of melting steel, while Character A's flame can melt those things.

High heat can cause damage physically by a small amount, however this has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I'm talking about heat/cold resistance only. Which is currently labeled on the MHA profiles as, in Shoto's case, Town level/Mountain level+ against Ice/Fire Attacks. What does this rating mean? It means nothing.

The rating is pointless as this doesn't tell me how hot or cold the flames or ice Todoroki resist is. What if Todoroki fights someone who's fire was calculated at 8-A, but has a temperature of ten thousand degrees Celsius? Does Todoroki tank his fire or does he get roasted? I'm pretty sure anyone you'd ask would say he gets roasted.

If this is the case, I'm suggesting removing all of the temperature ratings on the MHA profiles. Both in Durability and AP, this isn't just about durability.

Todoroki is incapable of attacking with the energy he uses to create that fire and ice. And as discussed, the rating given is irrelevant. Todoroki's flames/ice being 7-C or 7-A doesn't change the fact he can't burn/freeze anyone who can resist temperatures greater than his own. There is no universal energy source either, Todoroki cannot put the energy he uses to create his flames/ice into anything else.

Here is a sandbox of the updated profiles I'm suggesting. Note: Endeavor, Todoroki, and Dabi's Flashfire Fist will remain as High 7-A. This is do to the fact that their fire is shown in universe to produce thrust and physical force. Endeavor, Todoroki, and Dabi can propel their flames or their fist with High 7-A levels of force. I added their previous feats into their feats section.

As shown when they propel their fist using their flames to increase their striking strength. They're High 7-A because they're fire's thrust/propulsion has scaling on that level.

Edit: Scaling list, also the sandboxes have been updated.
Nine was able to take hits from 100%. And it wasn't like his bones broke from every hit, at least nothing suggest that was happening. His major damage came from being burned by Bakugo. While his face, which is where Izuku landed a direct Iron Sole kick to his face, didn't have any kind of deformities or broken teeth.

And yes, Izuku kicked Nine with his Iron Soles which produce a second impact with his kick. Which means Nine took the equivalent of two rapid 100% kicks to his face. If you look at the gif closely you can even see the double impact, Nine's face gets kicked here and suddenly a second impact blows him away.

Shigaraki should at least be equal to him. Doctor Garaki called Shigaraki his masterpiece, and stated that he was more perfect than he expected. Both underwent the same surgery so the Doctor obviously knows Nine's stats. Yet he states Shigaraki is his masterpiece and is better than expected.

Honestly Shigaraki should be superior to Nine in this case. But I understand why we say he's at least equal.

Shigaraki is on par with All Might, as Endeavor and Aizawa stated. They never saw Prime All Might so this must mean Weakened All Might.

100% Joint Training Arc Izuku: Mountain level+ (Dispersed a storm with a massive shockwave)

Full Power Nine: Mountain level+ (Could hold off attacks from both Full Cowl 100% Deku and Dynamight. Withstood a double impact kick from 100% Full Cowl Deku, and an explosion from 100% Full Cowl Dynamight) higher with Weather Manipulation (It took the combined power of both Deku and Dynamight to blew away his storm, and Deku stated that two One For Alls were needed in order to defeat him. He stated to be able to destroy Nabu Island)

100% U.A. Beginning Saga Izuku: Mountain level+ (Should only be slightly weaker than in his fight with Nine. Stated his 100% was on par with All Might, and was shown to be comparable to him during their fight with Wolfram)

Weakened All Might: Mountain level+ (Capable of matching All For One's Air Cannon Combination, which is strong enough to hurt him. Endeavor stated that Shigaraki was just as sturdy as him)

USJ Nomu: Mountain level+ (Capable of injuring All Might with his strikes, who is just as durable as Shigaraki)

Weakened All For One: Mountain level+ (Can injure All Might with his Air Cannon Combination, who is just as durable as Shigaraki. Can take hits from All Might and even survived his United States of Smash, though he was knocked out)

All For One Shigaraki: Mountain level+ (Stated to have strength on par with All Might. Eraser Head compared him to the USJ Nomu, and considered him to be a perfect Nomu. As Doctor Garaki's masterpiece he should at least be just as durable as Nine, who took hits from both 100% Full Cowl Deku and Dynamight)

High-Ends: Mountain level+ (A Near High-End was able to take hits from Star and Stripe alongside Shigaraki. As High-Ends they possess stats above the Upper-Tier Nomu, making them at least comparable to the USJ Nomu)

Mirko's Rabbit: Mountain level+ (Can tear through the bodies of multiple High-End Nomu, which have comparable durability to Shigaraki)

Star and Stripe's New Order Strength: Mountain level+ (Can draw blood from Shigaraki with a punch)

Gigantomachia: Mountain level+ (Pulverized a mountain over a short period of time. Overpowered Mt. Lady while ignoring her, and smacked away Geten's ice with ease. Doctor Garaki considers Gigantomachia to be an even bigger threat than his Near High-Ends. Destroyed 20 cities on his way to Shigaraki)

Muscular's Quirk: Mountain level+ (Clashed with a smash from Deku at 100%, who shouldn't be much weaker than in his fight with Nine)

Wolfram's Quirk: Mountain level+ (Can injure All Might with his attacks)

Endeavor: Mountain level+ (While inferior, he can break the bones of a High-End Nomu. A Near High-End was able to withstand attacks from Star and Stripe alongside Shigaraki. Withstood an Air Cannon from Shigaraki, which can match his Hellflame)

Dabi's Quirk: Mountain level+ (His Blueflame evenly clashed with Endeavor's Flashfire Fist. His own Flashfire Fist is greater than Endeavor's)

Geten's Quirk: Mountain level+ (Capable of evenly clashing with Dabi's Blueflame)

Shoto's Quirk: Mountain level+ (Able to use Flashfire attacks similar to Endeavor, was stated to have fire power on par with Endeavor. All For One complimented his Quirk along with Wave Motion, and consider them both to be strong)

Mt. Lady (Final Act Saga): Mountain level+ (Can take hits from Geten and break through his ice structures. Was capable of slowing down a charging Gigantomachia, something neither Dabi or Geten could do)

Red Riot's Unbreakable Durability: Mountain level+ (Survived an attack from a Gigantomachia, who was strong enough to injure Mount Lady)

Cementoss's Quirk: Mountain level+ (Can match Geten's power; their fight ended in a stalemate with both sustaining heavy injuries. Was able to weaken, yet not stop, the clash between Deku's 100% and Shoto's Flashfreeze Heatwave)

Nejire Chan's Wave Motion: Possibly Mountain level+ (Seemingly harmed a Near High-End Nomu, which was stated to be just as strong as Hood. All For One complimented her Quirk alongside Half-Cold Half Hot, considering them both to be strong)

Crust's Shields: Mountain level+ (Can harm High-Ends with his shields. Capable of blocking attacks from High-Ends)

Flect's Reflect: Mountain level+ (Despite being easily overwhelmed, he could withstand numerous punches from 100% Full Cowl Deku, though he couldn't reflect back any of them, and was ultimately defeated by his United States of World Smash)

45% Izuku Mountain level+ (While inferior to him, he could bruised Shigaraki with a kick and survived a brutal elbow strike to his stomach)

Lady Nagant: Mountain level+ (Can injure 45% Deku with her bullets. Can increase the size of her Rifle Arm, which increases the power of her shots. Can harm 45% Deku by hitting him in the stomach)

Overhaul's Durability: Mountain level+ (Survived multiple hits from Deku using Full Cowl 100%)

Mirko's Durability: At most Mountain level+ (Was heavily injured when thrown by a High-End Nomu, despite canceling the impact with her legs)

Leviathan's Durability: At most Mountain level+(Survived Shoto's Flashfire Fist, though it did knock him out)

Ryukyu: At most Mountain level+ (Can dig her teeth and claws into a High-End Nomu. Was able to stop Shigaraki's jump, who was moving faster than normal. Survived Shigaraki punching Endeavor into her, and was able to get back up after a short amount of time)

Best Jeanist's Durability: At most Mountain level+ (Survived a direct attack from All For One, though he was gravely injured and had to use his Quirk to sit up)
 
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I agree with all of it

Good work Rusty
I do have to ask why Shouto doesn’t just have High 7-A durability for his last key (He did take a flashfire fist from Dabi right?)
 
I agree with all of it

Good work Rusty
I do have to ask why Shouto doesn’t just have High 7-A durability for his last key (He did take a flashfire fist from Dabi right?)
That comes form after the Star and Stripe battle, we aren't touching anything from the final battles. I'd be talking about High 7-A Bakugo and Edgeshot if that was the case.

I know the profiles have some weird moments of them mentioned on the profile. However this is just the result of not having a solid idea at the moment.
 
Also considering how big this is, please read all of this, and let's hope enough staff members agree.

I don't like touching Deku's profile. To be honest I can't explain it myself. None of his reasoning or scaling changes though, just update the ratings.

7-A+ to High 7-A, HHS+ to MHS, and Class T to Class P.
 
Left a comment on the Shigaraki Disperses Clouds calc.

Will look through the rest later.

EDIT; Since there are multiple versions of the Giant Cube calc, shouldn't we have a calc group thread to determine which is the best?
 
Left a comment on the Shigaraki Disperses Clouds calc.

Will look through the rest later.

EDIT; Since there are multiple versions of the Giant Cube calc, shouldn't we have a calc group thread to detirmine which is the best?
There were already threads to discuss which version to use and reject. Since anytime they happened we had a thread to upgrade them or whatever.

Eventually all but Therefir's old Low 7-B version was rejected (I think). He was the one who accepted this calc.

My High 7-C calc wasn't KE though, it was just the destruction of the tower. I don't think that counts.
 
This looks good and if we do get cgms for the cube I'm interested to see which version is accepted
 
@TheRustyOne; so the thread would be between the High 7-A version and the Low 7-B version.
Considering the person who made the Low 7-B version accepted my calc, I don't see any point. Just a waste of our time.

We can have the discussion here as well. If you have an issue with the calc you can just say the issue here.

Saves all of us a lot of trouble if I made a mistake somewhere or maybe I did something improper.
 
Considering the person who made the Low 7-B version accepted my calc, I don't see any point. Just a waste of our time.

We can have the discussion here as well. If you have an issue with the calc you can just say the issue here.

Saves all of us a lot of trouble if I made a mistake somewhere or maybe I did something improper.
The calc group member who made the original calc accepting your new calc doesn't automatically mean the previous calc is overwritten with the new one.

I'm just stating the normal procedure that these things are handled by.
 
The calc group member who made the original calc accepting your new calc doesn't automatically mean the previous calc is overwritten with the new one.
Any reason you didn't answer my suggestion?

Or are you trying to tell me something?

Do you or do you not have an issue? I feel like you do and just don't want to say it for some reason.

I've very confused and slightly scared by this. Am I in trouble?
 
I'm not saying you're in trouble. I'm just saying that normally if there's multiple accepted versions of the calculation then there should be a discussion thread on which one is the most suitable to use instead of just using the latest one by default.
 
@TheRustyOne; If you'd prefer though, I can go over a potential issue that I've found with the calc here on this thread tomorrow.
 
Are you serious? I just made the thread right now.

What is the issue, what's happening that you cannot say it right now or when I showed the calc earlier in the discussion thread a long time ago?
Bad timing, sorry. I've left a comment there in that thread saying I'll give my thoughts tomorrow morning.

Just need to sleep on it to make sure I'm thinking straight as I'm quite tired right now.
 
No problem, don't burn yourself out.

Edit: For right now we can just ignore the High 7-A and Class P stuff. Instead focus on the new scaling, the MHS upgrades, and the temperature stuff.
 
No problem, don't burn yourself out.

Edit: For right now we can just ignore the High 7-A and Class P stuff. Instead focus on the new scaling, the MHS upgrades, and the temperature stuff.
Before we do anything with the air pressure calc, I have the Mach 236 Shigaraki calc which is currently on hold (Damage has yet to respond to my new arguments for it, Ant tagged him but nothing yet)

Shouldn’t take long to wrap that up then we’ll be solid
 
I already said in the main thread a concern about the movie calcs that Id like to point out yet again. Using 1 frame as a timeframe rather than the whole feat is really blatant of a highball. The following frames the cube is not animated moving at all. It's because of lazy animation. Not every frame is animated and therefore, the movement of a few frames is summed up in a single one.
 
Due to what was discussed here. The feat is highly likely to be downgraded to 174 Megatons and Class T lifting strength. The cloud High 7-A calc is also under review right now, could be downgraded depending on the time frame. It's possible to still be High 7-A, but it depends on the cloud calc's timeframe being 1 second.

AP has become a bust but Lifting Strength is still a big upgrade, just not Class P. And I edit to OP to mention a sight AP upgrade as well.

TL;DR

The 7-A+ characters will become 748.01 Megatons as Ryukyu is able to withstand Deku's 100% shockwave/explosion at point blank range. This would upgrade everyone from the 638/550 MT they scale to right now, to 748.01 MT. This scales to Endeavor as he can take a hit from Shigaraki and took less damage than Ryukyu.

Note: To be clear, Endeavor and Ryukyu are not scaling above 100%. They're scaling above the air pressure that came from 100%, which would obviously be vastly weaker than a direct hit from 100%. 100% was already scaling above these results, just now the scaling above is more defined.

Mirko should be upgraded to baseline at most 7-A+ or 550 Megatons of TNT. Same for Best Jeanist. Also before anyone mentions, I don't believe the gap between 748 MT and 1000 MT is close enough to upscale anyone other than Prime All Might and Current Izuku to High 7-A.
 
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I’m currently reworking my cloud calc rn

Does anyone have the density of clouds chart depending on how high they are from sea level? The one in my calc is only 1 km above sea
 
I’m currently reworking my cloud calc rn

Does anyone have the density of clouds chart depending on how high they are from sea level? The one in my calc is only 1 km above sea
I believe 1 km above sea level was still considered fine to use 1.003 kg.

At least the chart says the air density is 1.112 kg, which means clouds being 1.003 kg should be alright at this height?

Though I don't think this should be discussed here.
 
I'm not so sure about the method proposed for scaling Ryukyu's durability off of the wind pressure given by Deku's 100% strike on Tomura's head.

Unlike the case in the movie where it is just Deku punching straight up at no target, here Deku is punching down and delivering the force of his strike to Tomura's head. While there is lot of additional force given off from this judging by the visible shockwave spreading outward - I don't think we can scale this to Deku and Bakugo punching up at the sky at 100%. There was nothing to interrupt the force of their strikes when they punched upwards.

Also - the nature of the shockwave attack makes me doubtful as to its use in durability scaling. All Might disappated the sludge villain and created a tornado with the shockwave of his punch while Deku and Bakugo were at point-blank range... but their durability is clearly not supposed to scale to All Might's strike in any way. Likewise I don't think we can scale Ryukyu off of this.
 
I'm not so sure about the method proposed for scaling Ryukyu's durability off of the wind pressure given by Deku's 100% strike on Tomura's head.
I don't understand your reason.

Their punch was interrupted, literally clashed with the clouds and exploded into a shockwave. Just in this case it's happening on Shigaraki's head.

Edit: All Might's shockwave didn't explode outward, he controlled it so that the majority of it went into the air.
 
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Izuku and Bakugo punch upward and their air pressure impacts the clouds and becomes an explosion/shockwave.

Izuku punches Shigaraki and than the air pressure of his fist impacting Shigaraki expands as a shockwave.

This should be better actually, since this isn't the air pressure of his punch impacting and making a shockwave.

This is his actual fist impacting and making a shockwave.
 
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