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My Hero Academia: Twin Impact Scaling

Endeavor definitely got stronger from Kamino to Hood to vs Shigaraki.

He doesn't use FlashFire in Kamino on the page and we know his ordinary fire is leagues below FlashFire. Anyway we know he had it back then too so this doesn't prove anything.

But I think comparing his flight in the Shiggy fight compared to how his flight in the Hood fight shows he has clearly grown.

He has more maneuverability mid-air now and could even avoid Shigaraki's lunge and counter mid-air.

Sure he does get Kido's help to alter his trajectory when going after Shiggy but seeing how he performed earlier, he might have been able to do the same himself but with more effort.

Also in like every Endeavor fight, he pulls a new move out of his @$$ so even if he had them as early as Hosu or even Kamino, we never saw them.

In Hosu, he uses ordinary fire, same for Kamino.

Then FlashFire with moves like Jetburn, Hellspider & Prominence Burn against Hood.

Then Hell Curtain & Banishing/Vanishing Fist to down Shigaraki.

Currently in the manga, he used another Fire Arrow technique.

& from Vigilantes he had Landmine & the Hell Twister/Tornado technique.

So it's possible he always had these moves and we can't know exactly when he developed each move apart from the normal FlashFire & Jetburn + Prominence Burn since Shoto and Dabi can do those.
 
She did overpower him, he even grunted in pain when she slammed him into the ground. He was unable to escape from her grasp, and she could easily knock away his Poltergiest. Monoma at no point could've escape Uraraka's grasp.
 
She did overpower him, he even grunted in pain when she slammed him into the ground.

Pain from being thrown into the ground doesn't make it seem like a solid striking strength feat to me. That's even less secure than Monoma giving Deku a nosebleed.

He was unable to escape from her grasp, and she could easily knock away his Poltergiest.

How strong is the Poltergeist?

Monoma at no point could've escape Uraraka's grasp.

Isn't that a lifting strength matter?
 
If she injured him she scales to him. She threw him onto the floor hard enough to injure him, that's all that matters. Hitting someone in the face hard enough to draw blood is a perfect excuse to scale, what do you mean? Can you explain why that wouldn't be a good reason to scale?

Her AP is enough to harm him, so she scales to him. In Universe I have no doubt Uraraka is far superior to Monoma, though that has no barren on this discussion since it's my personal opinion.

Poltergeist should scale to his own striking strength. Since it makes no sense for him to use an attack that'd be hundreds of times weaker than his physical strike.
 
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If she injured him she scales to him. She threw him onto the floor hard enough to injure him, that's all that matters. Hitting someone in the face is a perfect excuse to scale, what do you mean? Can you explain why that wouldn't be a good reason to scale?

Her AP is enough to harm him, so she scales to him. In Universe I have no doubt Uraraka is far superior to Monoma, though that has no barren on this discussion since it's my personal opinion.

Poltergeist should scale to his own striking strength. Since it makes no sense for him to use an attack that'd be hundreds of times weaker than his physical strike.
It's not even an opinion, unless people think Monoma can go hand to hand with Toga, he is inarguably below Ochako in a physical fight.
 
Why on earth would poltergeist be far weaker than his own AP? Can I have a train of reasoning that leads to that conclusion?
I'm looking for an explanation for why it would be equal to his Striking Strength. If there's an explanation already provided, then it isn't an issue.

Also who said anything about it being far weaker?
 
I'm looking for an explanation for why it would be equal to his Striking Strength. If there's an explanation already provided, then it isn't an issue.

Also who said anything about it being far weaker?
If you’re questioning it being equal, that means you either believe it’s stronger or weaker without that evidence.

Also, there is no in-verse explanation needed for why it would be comparable if not higher than his own AP. If you throw a pipe at someone’s head with great accuracy, will it hurt more than punching them bare fisted? That’s a simple logical conclusion.
 
If you’re questioning it being equal, that means you either believe it’s stronger or weaker without that evidence.

No, it means I don't hold any position on it at all. Could be weaker, could be the same, could be stronger. My point is trying to see if any explanation has already been given. If you've come to your own default conclusion, that's fine, but that doesn't determine my view on it the same way.
 
No, it means I don't hold any position on it at all. Could be weaker, could be the same, could be stronger. My point is trying to see if any explanation has already been given. If you've come to your own default conclusion, that's fine, but that doesn't determine my view on it the same way.
Very well. Then the explanation I provide of it being stronger or comparable to his own AP is “hitting someone with a pipe hurts more than hitting them with a fist.” There’s also the added range factor and that he can control how he throws objects.

Also, from a more logistics standpoint, if he eclipsed Ochako in AP, why didn’t he one shot her when she tried to apprehend him? If we’re claiming that Monoma is thousands of times stronger than she is, he could literally tap her leg and kill her, but he just gives up? He doesn’t even try to punch her? Or break from his bonds? This guy hates 1-A, but absolutely gives up when a quirk doesn’t work?
 
A fictional verse growing in strength by a large amount is not unique to MHA. I see no reason why you are arguing a strength jump is impossible based solely off of numbers. That’s comparable to saying that Iron Man should be downgraded because he could make armor thousands of times stronger than his other armor with no reasoning provided why he could.
What are you talking about? A fictional verse growing in large amounts of strength is not unusual sure. But in terms of My Hero's standards, that would be vastly inconsistent. It takes characters months to get a few if not dozens of times stronger in their base forms. Base Deku against Bakugou probably isn't that different from his base at the Sports Festival, evidenced by a few of my calculations and the landmines.

It'd be inconsistent and outerlish for nearly all of the characters to suddenly get 4000 times to increase in strength, not to mention it would all make them Town level by the beginning of the current arc.

Denying blatant scaling due to numbers calculated by the wiki, as if the numbers we found are in anyway fact to the fictional verse, is arrogance.
Yeah, because it's ******* ridiculous. I don't need a rocket scientist to point out why all of the students having Town level base forms is complete bullshit. Why are you ignoring that part of my argument? Once again, students getting 4000 times stronger out of nowhere defeats the narrative of the story. There are some characters who disregard this narrative, but for the most part, most of the cast can still get damaged by kilojoule level attacks in their base forms by Joint Training.

Ochako could literally show up next chapter and swap hands with a High End and you would have to accept that she is as strong as Hood and Endeavor. Attempting to blockade this crt because you can’t handle the idea that characters can grow much stronger over arcs than your calcs imply they could have grown is not valid.
You seem to be ignorant of the fact that this would make absolutely zero sense, and would basically be considered an outlier. Getting 4000 times stronger in a few months would be one thing, but getting hundreds of thousands of times stronger in even less time than that is complete bullshit. That would be inconsistent even when factoring in the 4000 times increase they supposedly got before JT.

If this would happen, would Toga be Small City level? Despite blatant scaling showcasing otherwise? This is not a good example that helps your case Wolves.

You’re arguing out of incredulity, aka not backing any of your beliefs with statements or showings that imply they are correct, just saying “look at this, it makes no sense, it cannot be possible.”
Alright, let's take a walk through this.
Claiming I'm not backing up any of my beliefs with evidence or proof that would imply I'm right.
No, I've showcased math and numbers showcasing why this wouldn't work, (ergo, 32 kiloton level students and Base Deku), which would be considered an outlier.

But fine, let's suppose that you're right, and I'm wrong. There are absolutely zero flaws in the logic of the upgrades this CRT is presenting, right? Right? Well, if you were thinking that, you'd still be wrong.

Monoma scaling to High 8-C​

For most of my time on this thread, I’ve been focusing on explaining why Monoma’s feat is an outlier. I never really spent any time dissecting what exactly happened. I’ve had a change of mind now.

Firstly, I’d like to make light of the fact that when Monoma attempts to hit Deku, he really only sipes away at him. In the exact time frame in which he does this, Deku dodges his swipe.

And from what we can tell from the panels, Deku seemingly takes barely any damage from Monoma’s swipe. He doesn’t grunt in pain either, so it’s not clear whether or not he even felt getting hit.

This is an indicator of two things;
  1. Monona’s swipe didn’t hit Base Deku at all, and Twin Impact activated on 8% Deku for no reason whatsoever.
  2. Monoma actually did hit Deku, but he only barely touched the surface of Deku’s skin. At mot, maybe grazing him.
It’s obvious which of these conclusions are correct, and it’d be the second one. But then a problem would arise. Monona’s attack only grazed Deku, supposedly at least. To the point where Deku seemingly didn’t even react and show any signs of minor pain to it.

Even if Monmoa used Twin Impact, which would amplify the level of damage within his blow several times over, it wouldn’t even be enough to phase 8% Deku, let alone injure him.

The only possible and legitimate conclusion we could draw from this is that Twin Impact can amplify the user’s blows far more than two or three more times. There isn’t an exact number that I can refer to here, but it’s obvious Monoma’s base form wouldn’t scale to whatever yield Twin Impact upgraded his first blow to. It amplified his strength to the point that he can harm 8% Deku.

It should be extremely easy to conclude that a simple graze of the skin amplified by several times over wouldn’t be enough to harm 8% Deku (And this is assuming Monoma even grazed Deku, it’s not even shown if he did any damage at all).

And in case any of you don’t understand how Twin Impact would affect Deku in this scenario, I’ll briefly explain so:
  • Twin Impact only works on the area in which the original blow struck. Most of the damage to the area Monoma’s attack hit apparently wasn’t signifigant enough to evoke a response from Deku. Once again, a simple three times increase of a touch of the skin wouldn’t justify Twin Impact's attack damaging 8% Deku this much.
To summarize what I’m saying here in a few sentences if it wasn’t already extremely obvious;
  • Monona’s base AP wouldn’t scale to what hit 8% Deku. From what we can gather, his attack must’ve been amplified by a huge, if not unquantifiable amount for it to affect 8% Deku.
Of course, this would imply that Twin Impact is capable of multiplying its users AP by a ridiculous amount, (ergo hundreds if not thousands of times over), but pointing out how ridiculous you’d think this is wouldn’t get rid of the fact that Monoma clearly doesn’t scale to what Twin Impact hit 8% Deku with.
Call this feat of Twin Impact an outlier compared to the others, sure. But I think I’ve made it obvious Monoma shouldn’t scale up to High 8-C.

About that jump from 9-A to High 8-C…​

Yeah, this isn’t gonna fly. To list all of the variables we’ll have to account for when going by the logic of Therefir and Rusty;
  • Anyone who’d be Building level in the USJ or Sports Festival Arcs would be far higher than even 30% Deku.
  • It took Deku a few months to even reach 8% of One for All. And there’s not much of a difference in terms of base form AP when you compare him being able to use 5%, to 8%. For Deku and the cast to suddenly accelerate the effects of their training like that out of nowhere would be ridiculous and make zero sense.
  • Can I also mention the student's bases being Town level again?
And of course, there’s more to list, but I’ve already mentioned those other examples in my previous postings.
 
"Since character A went from Wall level to Building level, this means that character B should have gone from Large Building level to Town level in the same period of time". That's basically your entire argument, while ignoring cases where such growths were proven true. Even Deku went from 10-C to 9-B+ with only 10 months of training.

Bakugo is a level 50 character, so obviously his growth would not be equal to that of lower level characters, and bringing him in an upgrade that has nothing to do with him is just ridiculous, we don't even know how strong Bakugo is currently.
 
"Since character A went from Wall level to Building level, this means that character B should have gone from Large Building level to Town level in the same period of time". That's basically your whole argument, while ignoring the instances where such growths were proven true. Deku went from 10-C to 9-B+ with just 10 months of training.
That's one instance, and even then, going from 10-B to 9-B+ is over a million times increase. That's would be an outlier even when acknowledging the ridiculous logic of students getting 4000 times stronger.

Again, there are only a few characters within the series who'd be capable of this. But it's not like the entire cast is consistently capable of getting thousands of times stronger each month. Explain to me why we wouldn't have the students at Town level by the time of the War Arc. If you can't, then I won't even take you seriously on this.
 
@Earthyboy, that is not how we treat growth on this wiki. That is not proof against the scaling.

People grow at different rates and this is fiction, we rate characters based on their showings most of the time. Just because one character goes from one tier to another after getting stronger, doesn't mean everyone does as well. Sorry but you need to provide proof to back up your claims, that they all would grow stronger at the same rate.

As of yet you have not disproving the scaling.
 
@Earthyboy, that is not how we treat growth on this wiki. That is not proof against the scaling.

People grow at different rates and this is fiction, we rate characters based on their showings most of the time. Just because one character goes from one tier to another after getting stronger, doesn't mean everyone does as well. Sorry but you need to provide proof to back up your claims, that they all would grow stronger at the same rate.
You're correct, but there's one huge problem.

If Base Deku consistently takes weeks if not months to get but only a few times stronger than before, how the hell would you explain him getting 4000 times stronger in a month? Even factoring this increase down to only a single character, it's still inconsistent.

And once again, it'd make sense to assume that all of the students would get the same increases. They're both at U.A, they exercise. Is Deku the only one getting thousands of times stronger reach month?

And Rusty, I have provided proof. I've even given you mathematical evidence suggesting the students would all be Town level in their bases, including Deku. Hell, I've even explained why this CRT doesn't work for other reasons. But you've ignored those points.

Who didn't hurt who?
I typed several paragraphs proving why this upgrade makes no sense. I'd appreciate it if you'd at least acknowledge them instead of ignoring your opponent's arguments.

Monoma scaling to High 8-C​

For most of my time on this thread, I’ve been focusing on explaining why Monoma’s feat is an outlier. I never really spent any time dissecting what exactly happened. I’ve had a change of mind now.

Firstly, I’d like to make light of the fact that when Monoma attempts to hit Deku, he really only sipes away at him. In the exact time frame in which he does this, Deku dodges his swipe.

And from what we can tell from the panels, Deku seemingly takes barely any damage from Monoma’s swipe. He doesn’t grunt in pain either, so it’s not clear whether or not he even felt getting hit.

This is an indicator of two things;
  1. Monona’s swipe didn’t hit Base Deku at all, and Twin Impact activated on 8% Deku for no reason whatsoever.
  2. Monoma actually did hit Deku, but he only barely touched the surface of Deku’s skin. At mot, maybe grazing him.
It’s obvious which of these conclusions are correct, and it’d be the second one. But then a problem would arise. Monona’s attack only grazed Deku, supposedly at least. To the point where Deku seemingly didn’t even react and show any signs of minor pain to it.

Even if Monmoa used Twin Impact, which would amplify the level of damage within his blow several times over, it wouldn’t even be enough to phase 8% Deku, let alone injure him.

The only possible and legitimate conclusion we could draw from this is that Twin Impact can amplify the user’s blows far more than two or three more times. There isn’t an exact number that I can refer to here, but it’s obvious Monoma’s base form wouldn’t scale to whatever yield Twin Impact upgraded his first blow to. It amplified his strength to the point that he can harm 8% Deku.

It should be extremely easy to conclude that a simple graze of the skin amplified by several times over wouldn’t be enough to harm 8% Deku (And this is assuming Monoma even grazed Deku, it’s not even shown if he did any damage at all).

And in case any of you don’t understand how Twin Impact would affect Deku in this scenario, I’ll briefly explain so:
  • Twin Impact only works on the area in which the original blow struck. Most of the damage to the area Monoma’s attack hit apparently wasn’t signifigant enough to evoke a response from Deku. Once again, a simple three times increase of a touch of the skin wouldn’t justify Twin Impact's attack damaging 8% Deku this much.
To summarize what I’m saying here in a few sentences if it wasn’t already extremely obvious;
  • Monona’s base AP wouldn’t scale to what hit 8% Deku. From what we can gather, his attack must’ve been amplified by a huge, if not unquantifiable amount for it to affect 8% Deku.
Of course, this would imply that Twin Impact is capable of multiplying its users AP by a ridiculous amount, (ergo hundreds if not thousands of times over), but pointing out how ridiculous you’d think this is wouldn’t get rid of the fact that Monoma clearly doesn’t scale to what Twin Impact hit 8% Deku with.
Call this feat of Twin Impact an outlier compared to the others, sure. But I think I’ve made it obvious Monoma shouldn’t scale up to High 8-C.

About that jump from 9-A to High 8-C…​

Yeah, this isn’t gonna fly. To list all of the variables we’ll have to account for when going by the logic of Therefir and Rusty;
  • Anyone who’d be Building level in the USJ or Sports Festival Arcs would be far higher than even 30% Deku.
  • It took Deku a few months to even reach 8% of One for All. And there’s not much of a difference in terms of base form AP when you compare him being able to use 5%, to 8%. For Deku and the cast to suddenly accelerate the effects of their training like that out of nowhere would be ridiculous and make zero sense.
  • Can I also mention the student's bases being Town level again?
And of course, there’s more to list, but I’ve already mentioned those other examples in my previous postings.
No matter how you slice it, I remain completely right here.
 
That doesn't matter if he grazed him, Monoma touched Izuku, and Twin Impact activated a second impact that was several times stronger than his initial attack. He doesn't need to hit him directly, the power of his attack in general was multiplied by several times.

It's never stated that it only multiplies the energy the target is hit by. Can you please provide proof of this claim?
 
The definition of several is... "More than two, but not many." Several cannot be more than 11 since 12 would be a dozen.

So what makes more sense, Twin Impact multiples power by 3x to at most 11x? Or it multiplies power by hundreds to thousands of times? It was stated to be several times stronger, not hundreds of times stronger.

Monoma's attack was several times weaker than his Twin Impact attack which injured 8% Izuku, simple.
 
That doesn't matter if he grazed him, Monoma touched Izuku, and Twin Impact activated a second impact that was several times stronger than his initial attack. He doesn't need to hit him directly, the power of his attack in general was multiplied by several times.

It never stated that it only multiplies the energy the target is hit by. Can you please provide proof of this claim?
Except, I already explained why a simple graze of Deku's base form wouldn't allow Momoa to suddenly affect 8% of Deku. Twin Impact only attacks the area which the user struck. Most of the area Monoma's attack covered was extremely insignificant. Essentially, a three times increase wouldn't be enough to affect 8% Deku.

I already explained how Twin Impact works here'
  • "Twin Impact only works on the area in which the original blow struck. Most of the damage to the area Monoma’s attack hit apparently wasn’t signifigant enough to evoke a response from Deku. Once again, a simple three times increase of a touch of the skin wouldn’t justify Twin Impact's attack damaging 8% Deku this much."
No matter how you slice it, Monoma's attack was amplified by a ridiculous amount via Twin Impact.
 
The definition of several is... "More than two, but not many." Several cannot be more than 11 since 12 would be a dozen.

So what makes more sense, Twin Impact multiples power by 3x to at most 11x? Or it multiplies power by hundreds to thousands of times? It was stated to be several times stronger, not hundreds of times stronger.

Monoma's attack was several times weaker than his Twin Impact attack which injured 8% Izuku, simple.
No, it was thousands of times weaker. And I've provided evidence showcasing why. Read what I said properly next time.
 
You didn't answer what I said. You need to proof that Twin Impact works by multiplying the power he hits the target with, instead of the general power of his attack.

I will not respond to you until you do so, either you don't understand me or you have no proof to provide.
 
What are you talking about? A fictional verse growing in large amounts of strength is not unusual sure. But in terms of My Hero's standards, that would be vastly inconsistent. It takes characters months to get a few if not dozens of times stronger in their base forms. Base Deku against Bakugou probably isn't that different from his base at the Sports Festival, evidenced by a few of my calculations and the landmines.

It'd be inconsistent and outerlish for nearly all of the characters to suddenly get 4000 times to increase in strength, not to mention it would all make them Town level by the beginning of the current arc.


Yeah, because it's ******* ridiculous. I don't need a rocket scientist to point out why all of the students having Town level base forms is complete bullshit. Why are you ignoring that part of my argument? Once again, students getting 4000 times stronger out of nowhere defeats the narrative of the story. There are some characters who disregard this narrative, but for the most part, most of the cast can still get damaged by kilojoule level attacks in their base forms by Joint Training.


You seem to be ignorant of the fact that this would make absolutely zero sense, and would basically be considered an outlier. Getting 4000 times stronger in a few months would be one thing, but getting hundreds of thousands of times stronger in even less time than that is complete bullshit. That would be inconsistent even when factoring in the 4000 times increase they supposedly got before JT.

If this would happen, would Toga be Small City level? Despite blatant scaling showcasing otherwise? This is not a good example that helps your case Wolves.


Alright, let's take a walk through this.

No, I've showcased math and numbers showcasing why this wouldn't work, (ergo, 32 kiloton level students and Base Deku), which would be considered an outlier.

But fine, let's suppose that you're right, and I'm wrong. There are absolutely zero flaws in the logic of the upgrades this CRT is presenting, right? Right? Well, if you were thinking that, you'd still be wrong.

Monoma scaling to High 8-C​

For most of my time on this thread, I’ve been focusing on explaining why Monoma’s feat is an outlier. I never really spent any time dissecting what exactly happened. I’ve had a change of mind now.

Firstly, I’d like to make light of the fact that when Monoma attempts to hit Deku, he really only sipes away at him. In the exact time frame in which he does this, Deku dodges his swipe.

And from what we can tell from the panels, Deku seemingly takes barely any damage from Monoma’s swipe. He doesn’t grunt in pain either, so it’s not clear whether or not he even felt getting hit.

This is an indicator of two things;
  1. Monona’s swipe didn’t hit Base Deku at all, and Twin Impact activated on 8% Deku for no reason whatsoever.
  2. Monoma actually did hit Deku, but he only barely touched the surface of Deku’s skin. At mot, maybe grazing him.
It’s obvious which of these conclusions are correct, and it’d be the second one. But then a problem would arise. Monona’s attack only grazed Deku, supposedly at least. To the point where Deku seemingly didn’t even react and show any signs of minor pain to it.

Even if Monmoa used Twin Impact, which would amplify the level of damage within his blow several times over, it wouldn’t even be enough to phase 8% Deku, let alone injure him.

The only possible and legitimate conclusion we could draw from this is that Twin Impact can amplify the user’s blows far more than two or three more times. There isn’t an exact number that I can refer to here, but it’s obvious Monoma’s base form wouldn’t scale to whatever yield Twin Impact upgraded his first blow to. It amplified his strength to the point that he can harm 8% Deku.

It should be extremely easy to conclude that a simple graze of the skin amplified by several times over wouldn’t be enough to harm 8% Deku (And this is assuming Monoma even grazed Deku, it’s not even shown if he did any damage at all).

And in case any of you don’t understand how Twin Impact would affect Deku in this scenario, I’ll briefly explain so:
  • Twin Impact only works on the area in which the original blow struck. Most of the damage to the area Monoma’s attack hit apparently wasn’t signifigant enough to evoke a response from Deku. Once again, a simple three times increase of a touch of the skin wouldn’t justify Twin Impact's attack damaging 8% Deku this much.
To summarize what I’m saying here in a few sentences if it wasn’t already extremely obvious;
  • Monona’s base AP wouldn’t scale to what hit 8% Deku. From what we can gather, his attack must’ve been amplified by a huge, if not unquantifiable amount for it to affect 8% Deku.
Of course, this would imply that Twin Impact is capable of multiplying its users AP by a ridiculous amount, (ergo hundreds if not thousands of times over), but pointing out how ridiculous you’d think this is wouldn’t get rid of the fact that Monoma clearly doesn’t scale to what Twin Impact hit 8% Deku with.
Call this feat of Twin Impact an outlier compared to the others, sure. But I think I’ve made it obvious Monoma shouldn’t scale up to High 8-C.

About that jump from 9-A to High 8-C…​

Yeah, this isn’t gonna fly. To list all of the variables we’ll have to account for when going by the logic of Therefir and Rusty;
  • Anyone who’d be Building level in the USJ or Sports Festival Arcs would be far higher than even 30% Deku.
  • It took Deku a few months to even reach 8% of One for All. And there’s not much of a difference in terms of base form AP when you compare him being able to use 5%, to 8%. For Deku and the cast to suddenly accelerate the effects of their training like that out of nowhere would be ridiculous and make zero sense.
  • Can I also mention the student's bases being Town level again?
And of course, there’s more to list, but I’ve already mentioned those other examples in my previous postings.
Vs battles is generally obsessed with inflating feats no matter how implausible it is and no matter how much it goes against series lore and canon shown on the page.

I saw the same thing on Mashle and JJK threads this week.

I hope people don't turn MHA into another Bleach scenario where we get downgrades every other month.
 
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Monoma grazes Deku with a swipe > Subsequently he activates a Quirk that increases the power of this swipe several times > The power of his swipe multiplied several times is enough to injure 8% Deku.

The scaling could not be clearer.
 
You didn't answer what I said. You need to proof that Twin Impact works by multiplying the power he hits the target with, instead of the general power of his attack.
Rusty, you realize that's the same thing, right? The power which hits your opponent and the power of your attack is the same thing. What difference is there Moreover, how would this debunk the argument that the attack that hit 8% Deku is far stronger than the one which hit Base Deku? This is just a nitpick.

If you don't want to answer my arguments, then I'll take that as a concession then.

Monoma grazes Deku with a swipe > Subsequently he activates a Quirk that increases the power of this swipe several times > The power of his swipe multiplied several times is enough to injure 8% Deku.

The scaling could not be clearer.
Except you're forgetting the literal paragraphs I've typed up which prove that his attack was increased far more than simply several times. If you continue to ignore the relevant parts of my argument, then that would count as a concession via the burden of rejoinder.

Just because you state how simple the feat is to understand, and that it's only a several times increase, doesn't mean you're automatically right. To do so, you'd need to disprove my argument. Which haven't you done so yet.
 
I'm gonna have to disagree. Characters getting 4000x stronger in a short time frame is just...yeah.
That is not a proper reason, as explained above.

Multiple people have already jumped large gaps than this on MHA.
 
I like how always random people who never even touched a single MHA thread until now start popping up to agree with Earthyboy.

You can ignore this, it's just something that always happens throughout these threads.
 
I'm not sure what you're trying to say... But it wasn't a proper reason, though I wanted to make it be known why it wasn't a proper reason.
 
That is not a proper reason, as explained above.
Yes, it is, and I've proven so.
I like how always random people who never even touched a single MHA thread until now start popping up to agree with Earthyboy.
You, you'd think that with a revision as big as this one, that there's going to be multiple people replying to it? Nah, of course not. Regardless, I don't know what you're implying, but it wouldn't automatically make you right.
 
As I said before, you can ignore it, but I find weird how you responded TheRustyOne's question to SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King, like if it was directed to you, there's no way you could know what SuperGodzilla meant by "Kinda doesn't look like he really hurt him at all really.", but whatever.
 
As I said before, you can ignore it, but I find weird how you responded TheRustyOne's question to SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King, like if it was directed to you, there's no way you should have known what SuperGodzilla meant by "Kinda doesn't look like he really hurt him at all really.", but whatever.
I answered Rusty's question because I believe he's wrong. If you're suggesting that he's some sort of sock puppet account or something, then you're greatly mistaken.
 
Let's stop derailing the thread, I'm sorry for starting that as well.
  • "Twin Impact only works on the area in which the original blow struck. Most of the damage to the area Monoma’s attack hit apparently wasn’t signifigant enough to evoke a response from Deku. Once again, a simple three times increase of a touch of the skin wouldn’t justify Twin Impact's attack damaging 8% Deku this much."
So your argument is now based on that since base Deku didn't scream in pain after receiving Monoma's blow, that means that the multiplier he received from Twin Impact is much bigger than "several times"? Is that what you mean?

I have no idea what you mean by the area of the blow.
 
Let's stop derailing the thread, I'm sorry for starting that as well.

So your argument is now based on that since base Deku didn't scream in pain after receiving Monoma's blow, that means that the multiplier he received from Twin Impact is much bigger than "several times"? Is that what you mean?
It's the fact that Base Deku didn't even react to Monoma's hit, accompanied by the fact that he dodged it at the last second. He literally shows no recoil. Therefore, we can conclude that Monoma either barely grazed Base Deku or barely touched him.

This is quite literally a straw man;
  • 2. Straw Man
    This is when one person corrupts an opponent's argument into something different, a "straw man" that they set up just to knock it down.

I never said that because Deku didn't scream in pain, must mean that Monoma's hit barely hit him. You're missing the full context of what I said.

I said that it's the fact that Base Deku didn't even react to Monoma's hit, accompanied by the fact that he dodged it at the last second, and that he literally shows no recoil that we can conclude that Monoma either slightly grazed Base Deku, or barely touched him.
 
When I said Deku didn't scream in pain it was just a way of saying he didn't complain about it, nothing to do with a strawman.

It's the fact that Base Deku didn't even react to Monoma's hit, accompanied by the fact that he dodged it at the last second. He literally shows no recoil.
But that doesn't really mean anything, it just means that Monoma without Twin Impact isn't strong enough to hurt base Deku, who, to remind you, can take the same attacks as Bakugo.

And it's obvious Deku couldn't dodge the hit, otherwise Twin Impact wouldn't have been activated.
 
What are you talking about? A fictional verse growing in large amounts of strength is not unusual sure. But in terms of My Hero's standards, that would be vastly inconsistent. It takes characters months to get a few if not dozens of times stronger in their base forms. Base Deku against Bakugou probably isn't that different from his base at the Sports Festival, evidenced by a few of my calculations and the landmines.

It'd be inconsistent and outerlish for nearly all of the characters to suddenly get 4000 times to increase in strength, not to mention it would all make them Town level by the beginning of the current arc.


Yeah, because it's ******* ridiculous. I don't need a rocket scientist to point out why all of the students having Town level base forms is complete bullshit. Why are you ignoring that part of my argument? Once again, students getting 4000 times stronger out of nowhere defeats the narrative of the story. There are some characters who disregard this narrative, but for the most part, most of the cast can still get damaged by kilojoule level attacks in their base forms by Joint Training.


You seem to be ignorant of the fact that this would make absolutely zero sense, and would basically be considered an outlier. Getting 4000 times stronger in a few months would be one thing, but getting hundreds of thousands of times stronger in even less time than that is complete bullshit. That would be inconsistent even when factoring in the 4000 times increase they supposedly got before JT.

If this would happen, would Toga be Small City level? Despite blatant scaling showcasing otherwise? This is not a good example that helps your case Wolves.


Alright, let's take a walk through this.

No, I've showcased math and numbers showcasing why this wouldn't work, (ergo, 32 kiloton level students and Base Deku), which would be considered an outlier.

But fine, let's suppose that you're right, and I'm wrong. There are absolutely zero flaws in the logic of the upgrades this CRT is presenting, right? Right? Well, if you were thinking that, you'd still be wrong.

Monoma scaling to High 8-C​

For most of my time on this thread, I’ve been focusing on explaining why Monoma’s feat is an outlier. I never really spent any time dissecting what exactly happened. I’ve had a change of mind now.

Firstly, I’d like to make light of the fact that when Monoma attempts to hit Deku, he really only sipes away at him. In the exact time frame in which he does this, Deku dodges his swipe.

And from what we can tell from the panels, Deku seemingly takes barely any damage from Monoma’s swipe. He doesn’t grunt in pain either, so it’s not clear whether or not he even felt getting hit.

This is an indicator of two things;
  1. Monona’s swipe didn’t hit Base Deku at all, and Twin Impact activated on 8% Deku for no reason whatsoever.
  2. Monoma actually did hit Deku, but he only barely touched the surface of Deku’s skin. At mot, maybe grazing him.
It’s obvious which of these conclusions are correct, and it’d be the second one. But then a problem would arise. Monona’s attack only grazed Deku, supposedly at least. To the point where Deku seemingly didn’t even react and show any signs of minor pain to it.

Even if Monmoa used Twin Impact, which would amplify the level of damage within his blow several times over, it wouldn’t even be enough to phase 8% Deku, let alone injure him.

The only possible and legitimate conclusion we could draw from this is that Twin Impact can amplify the user’s blows far more than two or three more times. There isn’t an exact number that I can refer to here, but it’s obvious Monoma’s base form wouldn’t scale to whatever yield Twin Impact upgraded his first blow to. It amplified his strength to the point that he can harm 8% Deku.

It should be extremely easy to conclude that a simple graze of the skin amplified by several times over wouldn’t be enough to harm 8% Deku (And this is assuming Monoma even grazed Deku, it’s not even shown if he did any damage at all).

And in case any of you don’t understand how Twin Impact would affect Deku in this scenario, I’ll briefly explain so:
  • Twin Impact only works on the area in which the original blow struck. Most of the damage to the area Monoma’s attack hit apparently wasn’t signifigant enough to evoke a response from Deku. Once again, a simple three times increase of a touch of the skin wouldn’t justify Twin Impact's attack damaging 8% Deku this much.
To summarize what I’m saying here in a few sentences if it wasn’t already extremely obvious;
  • Monona’s base AP wouldn’t scale to what hit 8% Deku. From what we can gather, his attack must’ve been amplified by a huge, if not unquantifiable amount for it to affect 8% Deku.
Of course, this would imply that Twin Impact is capable of multiplying its users AP by a ridiculous amount, (ergo hundreds if not thousands of times over), but pointing out how ridiculous you’d think this is wouldn’t get rid of the fact that Monoma clearly doesn’t scale to what Twin Impact hit 8% Deku with.
Call this feat of Twin Impact an outlier compared to the others, sure. But I think I’ve made it obvious Monoma shouldn’t scale up to High 8-C.

About that jump from 9-A to High 8-C…​

Yeah, this isn’t gonna fly. To list all of the variables we’ll have to account for when going by the logic of Therefir and Rusty;
  • Anyone who’d be Building level in the USJ or Sports Festival Arcs would be far higher than even 30% Deku.
  • It took Deku a few months to even reach 8% of One for All. And there’s not much of a difference in terms of base form AP when you compare him being able to use 5%, to 8%. For Deku and the cast to suddenly accelerate the effects of their training like that out of nowhere would be ridiculous and make zero sense.
  • Can I also mention the student's bases being Town level again?
And of course, there’s more to list, but I’ve already mentioned those other examples in my previous postings.
Most of your argument hinges on the belief that “they grew this strong over an arc, why aren’t they growing this strong all the time,” which is not feasible.

Lets start with the crux of your argument: they are all wall level, so they cannot ever grow to building level.

This is asinine, arrogant bias, developed from your own perception. You have the audacity to claim growths in strength like that aren’t possible, when we have characters that literally do that in the manga by wiki standards?

This is fiction. A shonen manga. You fully believe that power gaps are going to stay consistent no matter what? That growth is linear in all cases? Are you joking? Have you looked at the profiles of the students? How many examples of growth similar to this are present across the wiki? Heck, in the MHA section alone? Is MHA some kind of special verse that states that a tier change, BY WIKI STANDARDS, NOT IN CANON, are impossible for any character not named Deku?

You are biased. Plain and simple. Deku can experience rapid growth from an average, non powered person to becoming wall level+ over 10 months. Then, he uses 5%, and becomes 4000x stronger. Gran Torino in his prime was literally beating the shit out of All Might, but has no strength quirk. Lady Nagant trained and is now Low 7-B with a sniper rifle. Best Jeanist is taking attacks that one tap Mount Lady. Sato went from 9-B to High 8-C. Aoyama became High 8-C. The narrative you’re trying to push is faulty.


But clearly, you’re just going to argue that point till the day you die, so let’s move on to another point:

THE VICTORY BOTS

This is the real meat of your beliefs, yes? That the victory bots are the definitive, end all of the scaling chain? That no student is beyond the victory bots? Let’s break this down.

First off: the victory bots performed a casual wall level feat. That is it. That is the scaling the students have. A casual, wall level feat where a victory bot broke through a wall with ease, then proceeded to get one shot by Aoyama. This is what you claim is the students limit? How’s about I introduce another alternative to your narrow viewpoint:

The students were never just 9-B to begin with.

Now I know you’re prideful and in love with your own beliefs, but step out of your world for a second and let’s look at the facts that surround the scaling of this 9-B feat: it is inconsistent as all Tartarus.

You DARE to claim that Monoma can’t experience 4000x growths in strength, when that strength growth is present on the wiki RIGHT NOW.

Every student is over 4000x weaker than 5%, Iida, Bakugo, Todoroki’s durability, Ojiro, Kirishima, etc. So every student should be getting one shot by any of those students

Monoma, a non physical fighter that uses others quirks, can injure Deku with a swipe to his face when his power is multiplied several times over.

Sato grew 4000x stronger

Aoyama grew 4000x stronger

Asui grew 4000x stronger


Tokoyami grew 4000x stronger

5% is a 4000x amp to base Deku

Bakugo, who beat Deku up every day as his bully, held back 4000x his strength even when he hated Deku and had no reason to

Bakugo during the training exams held back 4000x his strength when he hit Deku on the side with his gauntlet

Bakugo held back 4000x his strength when he punched Deku in the face before they fought All Might

Shall I keep going?

Essentially, here’s the problem I have with your beliefs in their entirety.

9-B is what is causing inconsistency, not 8-C or High 8-C feats, they have plenty of them. If the students were tier 8, we would not be having this discussion, but instead, you would rather accept sharp increases in strength for specific individuals due to your own bias rather than overhaul all the students to a consistent level.

The students becoming 9-B a while ago is what is causing this issue, not them having scaling that puts them at 8-C. The 9-B scaling, which is dependent on a CASUAL feat, and therefore isn’t even a limitation to their strength, is causing far more inconsistencies than it solves.

Inconsistencies with 9-B scaling:

Sharp, 4000x jumps of strength for specific characters out of no where despite them not becoming noticeably stronger. Most egregiously is Bakugo becoming this outlier top tier that can one shot nearly every character in his class with a punch because he’s 4000x them in strength.

The 9-B feat in question was performed casually by a victory bot, and most students are shown capable of one shotting them

Direct, in-verse multipliers put Students at 8-C to High 8-C by our calculations for other students that did NOT do their feats casually

Inconsistencies with 8-C to High 8-C


Some of the students don’t have concrete reasoning to scale other than likely being comparable to each other. That’s it.

Essentially:

Your argument from incredulity is ridiculous.

You claim it is impossible for Monoma to grow that strong, yet blatantly ignore other characters that do exactly that.

You claim that 9-B is the limitation, despite the basis for 9-B being an exceedingly causal feat.

You believe characters can do things 4000x above other characters, including holding back their strength, but dismiss the belief that those other characters can grow to match them.

This is bias, pure and simple.
 
When I said Deku didn't scream in pain it was just a way of saying he didn't complain about it, nothing to do with a strawman.
Really? Because from what I could tell, that's still different then what I said. Either make your points clear or don't argue them at all.
But that doesn't really mean anything, it just means that Monoma isn't strong enough to hurt base Deku, who, to remind you, can take the same attacks as Bakugo.

And it's obvious Deku couldn't dodge the hit, otherwise Twin Impact wouldn't have been activated.
Wrong. It's literally shown that Deku moved away from the strike at the last minute. Even the anime showcases that he nearly dodged it completely.
 
“It is impossible for characters to grow 4000x stronger, why don’t they do it all the time”

What a blatantly ignorant and ridiculous answer when you co-sign 5% being a 4000x amp, Asui growing 4000x stronger and a host of other students also becoming 4000x stronger.
 
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