Musashi Miyamoto (Vagabond) vs Jin Sakai (Ghost of Tsushima) GRACE

[Naito-desu]

I don't have the available calcs for the two on hand, but Jin can cut through iron armor and go toe to toe with Black Bears. Musashi can cut through katanas and even through two decently sized logs.

Speeds equalized
Fight is in an open grassy field, both start 5 meters apart

Vagabond: 5 (M3X, SheevShezarrine, Shiva Shakti, Twellas, SpookyShadow)
Ghost:

 

[SpookyShadow]

Musashi can cut through katanas and even through two decently sized logs.

He's superior to Denshichiro Yoshioka who could cut through a boulder. It was a little cracked on surface and it took two hits, but it should still be considered.

Jin does what in character? He has quite much stuff

 

[M3X_2.0]

Jin should win. Has more stuff to use against Musashi, such as fire manip, explosion manip, poision, light, smoke etc etc. He also can fight with his bow at long distances.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Musashi seems really outhaxed and outranged, hard to think of Musashi's wincon. Wouldn't it be more fair to have Jin with just his default weaponry? He already seems to have some really good advantages even without this poison and fire stuff, like power mimicry.

 

[M3X_2.0]

iirc that's his standard equip from what I remember

 

[SpookyShadow]

Oof. What can Musashi do then? Man's at extreme inventory disadvantage

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Musashi can probably convince Jin to fight honorably; one of the side quests is about a deadly group of Ronin challenging Jin to duel them.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Indeed. Jin would accept fight like that without a doubt.

 

[Naito-desu]

If it came down to sword on sword fight, Musashi has the AP advantage and skill imo. So I think it comes down to how many times Musashi can convince Jin to shed his 'dishonorable' weaponry for a fair fight.

And also shouldn't Jin's inclination for being honorable, be a weakness on his page?

 

[Twellas]

Yeah, I'm also pretty sure Musashi takes this handily when it comes to skill, the Analytical Prediction alone would be enough, let alone his Instinctive Reaction

 

[Naito-desu]

So the deciding factor is how many times Musashi can convince Jin to ditch the weaponry, because if Jin keeps at a distance, Musashi is somewhat screwed. But Musashi can conscientize Jin into shedding his dishonorable tactics and fight him like a real samurai, where Musashi has the advantage. I think the longer this goes, Jin and Musashi are more likely to cross swords than not but that's just my take.

 

[Naito-desu]

bump

 

[SpookyShadow]

Bump

Musashi got some good abilities, so that can make it more even

 

[Naito-desu]

Bump

 

[M3X_2.0]

I played GoT 2 months ago, iirc Jin doesn't act like the Ghost against japanese people. The video Shadow posted is a mission that you need to defeat a lot of samurais, Jin always fought them without being the Ghost. When you do a side quest to get a bew technique, like the fire manipulation, Jin always fight like a Samurai, and not the Ghost. Wouldn't be different with Musashi.

Musashi would win not because his alanytical prediction, but because he is much more skilled than Jin. I vote Musashi

 

[Naito-desu]

Bump

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Not convinced Musashi has any clear AP advantage as Jin stabbed right through the reinforced part of Khotun's iron armor.

Musashi has the skill advantage, but how large the gap is is up to debate, as Jin seems to be much more skilled than almost everyone Musashi fought. Jin's regeneration might be able to close it.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Musashi is much more skilled than his opponents too, except for Kojiro.

 

[SpookyShadow]

as Jin seems to be much more skilled than almost everyone Musashi fought

Could be debated, he pretty much has stomped Denshichiro who was on equal footing with early Kojiro. Kojiro's respect thread. Also destroyed his brother Seijuro who's much faster and was arguably on the same level of skill as Denshichiro.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Musashi literally one shotted his most skilled oppoent ever before Kojiro lmao

 

[SpookyShadow]

Also worth to note most of Musashi's skilled opponents had analytical prediction abilities, they were always thinking few moves ahead and tried to outmaneuver Musashi but always failed.

Aaand the fact that he has fodderized 70 Yoshioka swordsmen that were playing dirty tricks on him (like grabbing him, throwing sand in his eyes), just wanting revenge for their master. (Fodderized seems like a big word, but they were really no match against Musashi and they knew it, he was just very tired afterwards with his injuries)

 

[Naito-desu]

Yeah, Musashi has a large skill gap, so even assuming Jin had a slight advantage in AP, Musashi's sword skills still trump his since from my perspective Jin hasn't fought anyone in the analytical prediction caliber. The fact that Musashi's opponents had analytical prediction puts Musashi in a different league for defeating them.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Musashi one-shot defeat of Denshichiro was a blitz rather than a demonstration of sword skills. Musashi struggled a lot more with Seijuro (who he didn't destroy; Musashi got an eye and shoulder injury and was huffing by the end of the fight).
Denshichiro dreams he could be on his brother's level, and Musashi a year prior was pretty confident he can beat Denshichiro easily. But Seijuro casually blitzed a younger Musashi.

Also, no evidence that skilled samurai fodders in Vagabond have analytical prediction (likewise, no evidence that they had Denshichiro's strength or Seijuro's speed; all three are considered extraordinary physical and skill feats); thinking three or four moves ahead to try to outwit their opponent doesn't establish that.
Soloing a large number of samurai also isn't outside of Jin's skill level; he defeated the leader of the six ronin incidentally named Kojiro who gained his reputation by slaughtering dozens of strawhat ronin from dawn till dusk.

Jin adaptable enough to create fighting styles, and skilled enough to learn techniques absurdly quickly by observing his opponent's movements, which solidly puts him above almost everyone Musashi fought. A non-massive gap can be closed by Jin being able to slow down his perception of time by concentrating, alongside his regeneration.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Yeah, Seijuro did injure him, but he got still cut in half and it wasn't a long fight. That's pretty much what I meant.

Denshichiro was stronger than Seijuro physically, Seijuro was just a prodigy and was hellishly fast, he didn't even bother to train, even noted by himself when he fought with Musashi and said his attacks are usually too fast to see.

Samurai fodders no, the likes of Denshichiro and Yagyu swordsmen were outright making statements about trying to think few moves ahead and were trying to make hypothetical outcomes to their fights with Musashi, but he has always outdone their predictions. That is some realm on analytical prediction, doesn't make it all-mighty though. He was always just not very predictable in battle.

A fight against one man who has slaughtered dozens is much different from slaughtering actually fighting dozens of men, but I do get what you're trying to say. Still Musashi's feats are way more impressive, and he's skilled enough to make Kojiro be obsessed about him.

Kojiro does the same things though, he's also a prodigy who learns techniques during fight. Other points are good. I just think Musashi has good enough strength and skill advantage to take this

 

[Naito-desu]

I just think the fodder that Musashi's faced is of a greater caliber personally. Jin can take Musashi one-on-one but has one of a hell of a gap to close before he can get to Musashi's caliber. Giving my two cents here but Jin could have easily taken this if he wasn't so honorbound, otherwise, Musashi has a slight edge in close quarters.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

If the fight was competitive and Jin managed to land a simultaneous injury, he would have the advantage since his regeneration allows him to get up from mortal wounds.

Thinking a few steps ahead (ex. "I am going to use a three-hit combination to push him back and enclose him against the wall, while my friend tries to stab from the side at the same time") is different from predicting what the opponent is thinking from muscle movements. There is nothing superhuman about making multi-step strategies and trying to predict what the opponent will do; this just means that they have experience, not analytical prediction.
There is no solid evidence that Seijuro has analytical prediction, and if he didn't then Jin could outlast Musashi.

This is the depiction of GoT's Kojiro's fight:

So dozens of men ganged up on him and completely surrounded him; a much more dangerous starting position than the one Musashi and Kojiro were in since they had more room to maneuver. His total kill count is over one thousand (the strawhats turned against him due to how bloodthirsty he is), but he did fight dozens of men at once.

 

[SpookyShadow]

If the fight was competitive and Jin managed to land a simultaneous injury, he would have the advantage since his regeneration allows him to get up from mortal wounds.

His regen should be changed then, it's only Low on his profile, it doesn't seem all that impressive.

Thinking a few steps ahead (ex. "I am going to use a three-hit combination to push him back and enclose him against the wall, while my friend tries to stab from the side at the same time") is different from predicting what the opponent is thinking from muscle movements. There is nothing superhuman about making multi-step strategies and trying to predict what the opponent will do; this just means that they have experience, not analytical prediction.

Analytical Prediction itself isn't anything superhuman. Real-life fighters are capable of it. It's not the top notch analytical prediction that you are talking about (predicting something from muscle movements isn't actually possible in real life, our senses are too limited, so it indeed is superhuman). It is simple and basic analytical prediction. My point was, he was always outwitting the hypothesis of his opponents.
Point's moot though anyway, Musashi himself has analytical prediction, not only shown during Yagyu arc but also when he fought with Inshun and he could literally "see through him" in every way.

So dozens of men ganged up on him and completely surrounded him; a much more dangerous starting position than the one Musashi and Kojiro were in since they had more room to maneuver.

Wouldn't say so, Yoshioka school was using dirty tactics and sacrifices against him. That's more dangerous than men ganking on you

 

[Naito-desu]

I don't think GoT's situation is any more dangerous than Musashi's or Kojiro's, Musashi had to deal with both his opponents predicting his moves and dirty tactics and sacrifices and what not, I still think it's stacked against Jin.

 

[SpookyShadow]

He didn't have to deal with them predicting his moves because they were too inexperienced to actually predict his moves (I was talking about Yagyu swordsmen earlier, the 70 swordsmen were not shown to use any type of prediction) but dirty tactics are far more dangerous

 

[ShivaShakti]

IMO in just a pure sword to sword fight, I believe Musashi takes this. Only way Jin has a chance is if he uses his bombs and what not.

 

[Naito-desu]

Ah shit yeah must have gotten the fights mixed. soz

He didn't have to deal with them predicting his moves because they were too inexperienced to actually predict his moves (I was talking about Yagyu swordsmen earlier, the 70 swordsmen were not shown to use any type of prediction) but dirty tactics are far more dangerous

 

[Naito-desu]

Bump

 

[SpookyShadow]

Bump

 

[Naito-desu]

Bump

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Yeah... This is pretty simple. Seeing the profiles now, either Musashi has high difficulties but a decisive win in a direct sword fight, or Jin would easily tear him open with his nastier equipment.

 

[Naito-desu]

Well we did determine that Jin was more likely than not, going to face Musashi the traditional way due to being depicted as honorbound with fighting other samurai. So really at this point, it would be a matter of who would win a sword fight.

 

[Naito-desu]

Bumpo

 

[Naito-desu]

Bump

 

[Naito-desu]

Bump

 

[Naito-desu]

Bump