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Monika's Nonexistent Physiology upgrade

Rikimarox2

Rikimarox2

He/Him
7,653
4,209
First CRT, so expect some mistakes ;p

Pretty straightforward upgrade to be honest.

Currently, Monika doesn't have an exact type of NEP on her profile, and its apparently due to the fact that she was made before Type 2 existed. That, and the fact that people think she is Type 1 instead of 2, which is quite wrong.

Unless I'm mistaken, we give characters who get erased conceptually, and exist afterwards, NEP2 (Kama, Kriemhild Gretchen, etc...)

This should be the same case for Monika, since she was completely erased from the plot and history, and despite that, she continued to exist. Hell, it's even shown that when files are erased, the character's names cannot even be said properly. It also says on the profile that characters who got their file erased will be erased from history, as shown literally on the profile.

Surprisingly, I haven't really seen any CRTs about her NEP, unless it was on the old forum of course. However, everyone told me that NEP Type 2 was rejected for her because it wasn't "conceptual erasure" despite her being literally erased from history. What's the difference between Conceptual erasure and plot erasure when both of them completely erase you from all of history and reality?

In conclusion, give Monika NEP a Type 2. The explanation for it should stay the same as it on the profile.

Agree: 4 (YungManzi, StrymULTRA, Infinity_Shun, Infiniteday)

Disagree: 2 (Regidian[?], Lapsad)
 
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This is using same logical as high-godly , anyway i wonder if the conclusion has accepted plot manip would be comparable to conceptual or not , an issue is stated plot manipulation its just reallity warp in variant way
 
I remember history erasure was not consider as equal to conceptuel erasure in high godly thread don't know if apply here too
 
What's the point of Conceptual Erasure then? Conceptual erasure remove the target from history, removing every memory of them. The same happened to Monika here.
 
Rikimarox2 said:
What's the point of Conceptual Erasure then? Conceptual erasure remove the target from history, removing every memory of them. The same happened to Monika here.
Click to expand...
It not remove only the target from history, it erase their concept of "you/me", of "being" something etc, getting removed from history and memory not affect your concept as "you/me". I think it's a thing like that
 
Regidian said:
I remember history erasure was not consider as equal to conceptuel erasure in high godly thread don't know if apply here too
Click to expand...
That was on a DBH thread and because there "history" means just the space-time, making the "erasure" doodoo
 
Regidian said:
It not remove only the target from history, it erase their concept of "you/me", of "being" something etc, getting removed from history and memory not affect your concept as "you/me". I think it's a thing like that
Click to expand...
I agree with this
 
The thing is, she wasn't just erased from history or memory. iirc, characters names who got their file erased cannot even be said properly.

I honestly find it odd that characters who can regenerate from narrative erasure can get high-godly regen, the same regen that you can get after you restored your own concept, yet they cannot get NEP2 for whatever reason.
 
Rikimarox2 said:
The thing is, she wasn't just erased from history or memory. iirc, characters names who got their file erased cannot even be said properly.

I honestly find it odd that characters who can regenerate from narrative erasure can get high-godly regen, the same regen that you can get after you restored your own concept, yet they cannot get NEP2 for whatever reason.
Click to expand...
It's why i tell that i will wait what staff member think, i was myself more with that you can be erased from narrative/history but still have the concept of "yourself" existing so well wait and if they find this okay, i don't have problem.
 
I was asked to comment here, but only know what was stated in the Nonexistent Physiology page, and according to those descriptions, this does not seem to qualify. However, I am currently completely overwhelmed with work, and do not have the time to continue to comment here, so I will unsubscribe. Sorry.
 
Well, as I mentioned in the other thread. I don't think this would qualify for type 2, only type 1.
 
Ah that kinda sucks. Does it specifically have to be conceptual erasure? I mean, characters names who got their save files erased cannot even be said properly. But if that ain't enough, then rip.
 
If Information is treated in-Verse as similar to Concepts, being the foundation of their existence what everything else is built off, and erasing it causes similar effects as erasing Concepts, people unable to remember even the idea of the being. Then I think acting without said Information should be Non-Existence Type 2.

At this point what is the difference between Concepts and Information then besides what they are named?
 
Yeah, once the character file gets erased, it's over. They are removed from history, main menu, and the game cannot spell their names properly. iirc the only reason it isn't accepted is because the concept of you/me still exists apparently.
 
Pretty much what I said here.

Don't know enough about DDLC to comment on whether that information would qualify as a concept or not. But since I don't see any conceptual manipulation on the profiles I'm assuming it's not treated as such on the wiki. If you make a thread about this and get it accepted, you'd have a better case for it.
 
Ogbunabali said:
Pretty much what I said here.

Don't know enough about DDLC to comment on whether that information would qualify as a concept or not. But since I don't see any conceptual manipulation on the profiles I'm assuming it's not treated as such on the wiki. If you make a thread about this and get it accepted, you'd have a better case for it.
Click to expand...
In short words is since Monika survived being deleted from the plot, which on the wiki is the same damage of Concept Erasure because they're the same in the High-Godly, then she has Type 2 NEP.

Is like saying that someone doesen't have High-Godly despite surviving being erased from the plot, and in this case is with NEP instead of regen.
 
Basically that.

Even our Regeneration page treats Plot erasure as on the same level as conceptual erasure. Even saying "more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrative, their entire history, or the underlying concept(s) or information needed for them to exist."
 
I already mentioned in my post that High-Godly and NEP have nothing to do with eachother.
 
You're ignoring the part where those two things are not connected in the way you're implying they are. Just because they have similar end results, doesn't mean they are the same. Erasing someone's concept erases them from history, but erasing someone from history doesn't necessarily erase their concept. You're equating things here that aren't connected at all in the way you keep insinuating they are.
 
Ogbunabali said:
Erasing someone's concept erases them from history, but erasing someone from history doesn't necessarily erase their concept.
Click to expand...
This is completely false in DDLC case as, like OP mentioned, the memory and the place in the script of the character went completely erased and even trying mentioning/thinking of their name causes cracks to the reality and the system, forcing to re-start the game without the part of mentioning said person since they're not supposed to be in the game anymore, meaning that their meaning of existence got erased.
 
Ogbunabali said:
Don't know enough about DDLC to comment on whether that information would qualify as a concept or not. But since I don't see any conceptual manipulation on the profiles I'm assuming it's not treated as such on the wiki. If you make a thread about this and get it accepted, you'd have a better case for it.
Click to expand...
Make a CRT to give them Conceptual Manipulation, and try again then. As of right now, it obviously isn't treated as such so using that as your argument is irrelevant.
 
StrymULTRA said:
This is completely false in DDLC case as, like OP mentioned, the memory and the place in the script of the character went completely erased and even trying mentioning/thinking of their name causes cracks to the reality and the system, forcing to re-start the game without the part of mentioning said person since they're not supposed to be in the game anymore, meaning that their meaning of existence got erased.
Click to expand...
Sorry but for me, what you describe is just what is narrative erasure...
 
So the opposition is arguing a point of absolutism. Basically; no matter how similar it acts or even how thoroughly it erases it isn't conceptual manipulation, so it can't be nonexistence type 2, because the nonexistence page makes no mention of anything other than concepts in relation to not existing beyond non-physical.
 
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