Mogeko Castle 4-A/High 3-A Downgrade

[Andytrenom]

Might as well get this done…

Introductio
Currently, the Mogekos are rated at 4-A/High 3-A for a statement of being able to destroy the Mogeko Castle, which contains a nightsky full of stars and is stated to possess infinite space. Now treating this feat as being so high I don't have any problems with, but who this feat scales is a cause for concern

I believe this feat is an outlier for the Mogeko.

The Issue
The Mogeko, in the Okegom multiverse, are not actually portrayed as anything special strengthwise in fact calling them "fodders" wouldn't be far from the truth.

Yosafire was able to burn one to a crisp easily

One of them was killed by some random demons during the Gray world invasio

Poemi has killed at least one Mogeko, purely for fun

There are piles of Mogeko lying about slaughtered by Emalf's monster

But despite all this they are rated at 4-A as a low end, which puts them ludicrously above every single character in the verse barring the god-tiers and high 3-A as a high end, which is a level of power that not even a God or Devil has shown as far as I am aware.

Conclusion
Here's what I think should be done, the Mogekos' rating should be changed to unknown and unless there is evidence for scaling, Etihw, Kcalb and Ivlis should have their High 3-A form removed.

King mogeko and everyone scaling to him though, should still retain their original ratings.

One More Thing...
There's another thing that I wanted to bring up, the possibility of the Mogeko dimension being 3-A as opposed to 4-A.

It is established in Gray Garden that there are multiple worlds just like the Gray world, which in context seemed to refer to parallel universes as opposed to planets or pocket realities. The Mogeko world is such a world, not a pocket dimension, at least as far as I can tell.

If someone thinks this is accurate then please tell me, if not, oh well.

 

[QuasiYuri]

I still think the "Moge-tan" outside the Castle =/= the Moge-tan inside, since the politic of King Mogeko and the "biology" of Moge-tan clearly don't let that happen, and it's more a different kind of species than a real Mogeko (In Gray Garden, the Moge-tan like creature are demons, and demons aren't Moge-tan).

We know that Moge-tan like creature who aren't Moge-tan exist (Hashaky), so I don't see why all Moge-tan like creature should be a Mogeko.

And for the one more thing: The Mogeko castle is in a Mogeko World, so I don't know if this can be considered like a universe (that should give Low Multiversal range to Lord Prosciutto anyway, since his/her light reach the castle + Mogeko World).

 

[Promestein]

I'm inclined to agree.

 

[Alexcar3000]

I'm honestly not sure, but I think having regular Moge-tan and Moge-tan looking things as Unknown is the safer approach until Gaiden comes out and -hopefully- explains what happens to the Moge-tan (and Moge-tan looking things such as the Hashasky) who manage to escape the castle and see if it somehow ties-in to them existing in other worlds. The existence of Prosciutto Heaven is also a big unknown, but it hasn't been talked about as much as the Mogeko Kremlin.

Another thing to note, there are potentially alternate realities which exist on top of the different worlds (again, unsure of how "canon" this is, given DSP themselves wrote them more like gags than anything, such as the Roach AU and Deep-Sea Academy, but could potentially explain the different game endings co-existing, such as the "true" one where Yonaka never left the castle despite becoming Lord Prosciutto in a different ending, and Gaiden which seems like a continuation of this, plus Wadanohara's multiple endings, plus The Gray Garden's where we see Ivlis winning and in a Sunahama post IIRC there was continuation of this in which Ivlis died to Siralos).

I also started thinking about Low Multiversal ratings (at least in regards to range like YuriAkito said) for the Gods, since Siralos made not just Land of Sun but also Flame Underworld, and it could scale to the awakening of Lord Prosciutto bathing the Mogeko Kingdom + Mogeko Castle in light, also with King mogeko being stated to have created not just the Mogeko Castle but also the Mogeko Kingdom, from nothingness, with no mention about Prosciutto Heaven or Mogeko Kremlin, the later which was potentially made by a different God and not Lord Prosciutto, simply referred to as "Frozen Yogurt" in the bonus room in the game.)

One thing I want to ask, didn't, ehem, King Yonaka said killing King mogeko gave him/her the powers we attribute to Lord Prosciutto? That could explain why the King has God-level feats, though saddly doesn't explain how could Moge-ko terrify him nor how could pre-awakening Yonaka kill him. Thoughts about this?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Andy my man, I told you I'm not versed in the whole multiverse thingy. In Mogeko Castle by itself, it isn't an outlier, but I have no idea if the greater Okegom verse makes it one, so whatever, it's up to you.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Yuri I don't think they are stated to be demons, they are just stated to be creatures that came from another world. If you are talking about the flame demons we have to fight, i'm not treating them as mogekos here.

@Alex The thought of the different endings being alternate timelines has crossed my mind before and I think some supplementary material supports this. But even assuming they were, I don't think anyone actually scales to them.

@Saikou You've let me down ;(

(jk love you)

 

[QuasiYuri]

The ones killed by Poemi and Emalf are more likely flame demons than real Mogeko. We should more threat the others like cameo (since they are never called Mogeko and doesn't act like ones) until General Hashasky's Great Adventure make more information about this.

 

[Andytrenom]

Them being called Mogekos isn't really necessary when you can clearly see that they are Mogekos. I am not treating the Flame demons as mogekos since they are referred to as something else and are native to the Flame World instead of coming from another world like the clerks at the shop.

 

[QuasiYuri]

The clerks are said to be from another world? I don't remember that.

 

[Andytrenom]

If you converse with some NPCs in the Blancback Castle, they mention this.

 

[Alexcar3000]

Yeah, for the moment I don't see how the alternate realities existing actually have something that can be scaled to anyone, but I threw them there just so we have a reference as to why things may differ from each other. For all we know, Mogekos are weak^1 in some realities, but let's just... say "cool, we know alternate realities are a thing" and move on... so, what do you think about God Tier people creating multiple worlds and that King Yonaka / LP thing?

 

[Andytrenom]

The world of Sun and World of Flames are different universes right, as opposed to components of the same universe? If so Low Multiversal range is probably fine.

As for Yonaka I don't think her illuminating both the castle and the dimension is low multiversal range tbh.

 

[Alexcar3000]

Not that, but the relation between King mogeko's power and Lord Prosciutto.

 

[Andytrenom]

Pre Awakening Yonaka killing king mogeko I don't know how to treat as honestly. It could be that the King is a Glass cannon, but then again he has taken attacks from his equal in Nega-mogeko.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Pre Awakening Yonaka killing king mogeko I don't know how to treat as honestly. It could be that the King is a Glass cannon, but then again he has taken attacks from his equal in Nega-mogeko.

Yonaka used the knife of Somewhat Strange Mogeko, the knife is specially made for kill them.

 

[Andytrenom]

She didn't. She killed the King by crushing his skill with her grip strength.

 

[QuasiYuri]

+ World of Sun and Flame Underground are different universes, like the Pitch Black World and Fumus' world.

 

[Andytrenom]

I wonder if creating both of these worlds can put him at 2-C. Best if some staff other than me also give input in this.

Also, can you post the scans that explain Siralos created both the worlds? it's not like I doubt this but context is always appreciated.

 

[Andytrenom]

bump.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Sun's curse explain more about it if I remember correctly, since Siralos banned Ivlis in this story.

 

[Alexcar3000]

Here's the written Translation and here's the video with subtitles.

 

[Andytrenom]

Well...I can't really find evidence of 2-C AP. Range he may get depending on how you want define Low multiversal, ie having access to a separate universe or being able to influence two space-time continuums at once. I lean towards the latter btw.

Anyway, Is there any more opposition towards the Mogekos being revised? Cause I really want the main topic of this thread to be handled soon.

 

[Alexcar3000]

I agree with placing them as Unknown, but I'm not sure what to do with King mogeko creating the world plus the castle, Yonaka bathing the same two things in light, and Siralos creating Land of Sun + Flame Underworld.

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that the first post seems to make sense.

 

[QuasiYuri]

I agree with placing them as Unknown, but I'm not sure what to do with King mogeko creating the world plus the castle, Yonaka bathing the same two things in light, and Siralos creating Land of Sun + Flame Underworld.

The King isn't said to have created the Mogeko World, just the castle.

 

[Andytrenom]

He's actually stated to have created both.

He first created the world and then created the castle at its centre, as explained by negamogeko.

 

[QuasiYuri]

He's stated to have created the kingdom more than the entire world.

 

[Andytrenom]

The story seemed to indicate him creating the dimension more than a simple geographical location on a preexisting world. But I could be wrong here.

anyway, do you still have a problem with making the normal Mogekos Unknow? @Yuri

 

[Andytrenom]

bump.

 

[QuasiYuri]

I'm okay with Unknown.

 

[Andytrenom]

Okey.

I think the changes can be made now.