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Minor revision for musashi and kojiro

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TrueKingOfHeroes

TrueKingOfHeroes

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Immeasurable speed

Musashi and Kojiro should have immeasurable speed via Zero and Infinity, because the skill transcends time and cannot be avoided by gods and buddha. Gods and buddha have been accepted on this wiki as immeasurable speed


Musashi

Musashi should have analytical prediction, it is stated that heavenly eyes are able to read the next move but yagyu resists it. so Yagyu should have resistance to analytical prediction

Power mimicry for musashi, she copied Accel Turn of ishtar summer after see it
Accel Turn: B
Swimsuit Ishtar's skill that's been copied visually.
Even though Ishtar was the victim of plagiarism, the only thing she could manage to say was "...she's a genius!"
Click to expand...

Precognition and cosmic awareness via heavenly eyes



Unholy manipulation for musashi, due to having demonic sword




Kojiro

Kojiro should have resistance to information analysis




Muramasa

Muramasa should have matter manipulation via tsumugari muramasa because it was able to severs bonds, (Don't know if Musashi will scale or not) and yeah, Gilgamesh should have too
 
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Musashi need in first infinity reaction speed in her base, she was able to fight yagyuu suigetsu before unlocking zero
 
Fate Hax is already treated as instantaneous, for example if you can attack the future then the present will be altered automatically as a consequence. That's like me giving Yhwach infinite attack speed via the Almighty.


Also I'm not all too sure on giving base Musashi infinite speed reactions, as that would cause a lot of inconsistencies in the profiles since others scale to her iirc
 
Regidian said:
Musashi need in first infinity reaction speed in her base, she was able to fight yagyuu suigetsu before unlocking zero
Click to expand...
infinite speed suigetsu seemed to reflect the opponent's entire movement and surpassed it, and that happened when fighting Zero Musashi who has infinite speed.

I thought before fighting Zero Musashi, Yagyu didn't have infinite speed
 
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Regidian said:
Musashi need in first infinity reaction speed in her base, she was able to fight
Click to expand...
No. Yagyu never mastered Suigetsu while he was alive, he states in his Interlude he only did it as a Servant. And if he did master it while alive it's still a massive outlier for base Musashi (although, you could argue that since Musashi reached Zero while fighting Yagyu, she wasn't even in base anyway)

Either way, Immeasurable speed Zero/Infinity guys is fine to me. They very explicitly exist beyond space-time and Kojiro's power is explicitly said to go beyond the limits of time and space. Also, like, they reach a realm beyond existence and nonexistence while fighting, so.
 
Well, since this is a Musashi thread, this is relevant anyway:
Screenshot_20211014-153347_Reddit.jpg

Precog and Cosmic Awareness.
 
I disagree with resistance to Analytical prediction, that's more akin to resistance to Information Analysis. You never get used to his attacks, not that you can't predict them.


Also Musashi needs matter Manipulation since she can cut bonds with her sword.


Also disagree with resistance for Yagyu, he bypassed it via skill, he's not resisting it as much as he is outskilling it. Honestly reminds me of Okubo from Kengan beating the shit out of Terashi despite his uber Fist-Eye
 
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LordGinSama said:
I disagree with resistance to Analytical prediction, that's more akin to resistance to Information Analysis. You never get used to his attacks, not that you can't predict them.


Also Musashi needs matter Manipulation since she can cut bonds with her sword.
Click to expand...
Who do you mean?

Well, if then muramasa must have it too
 
I accidentally sent a notification to some inactive members. Sorry about that.
 
analytical prediction: Is not this already covered by the eyes abilities to see multiple futures? Analytical prediction would contradict this idea since is based off mostly intelligence rather than some supernatural power.

And someone's prediction failing against an enemy doesnt mean that the latter has resistance, it just means the prediction was not accurate.

Matter manip: Being able to sever "bonds" is not matter manip, the term is not exclusive by any means to molecular bonds of some shit lmao.

From the way its described, is probably more abstract like "certainty" and "karma" is written there.

That's about my grips.
 
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Newendigo said:
analytical prediction: Is not this already covered by the eyes abilities to see multiple futures? Analytical prediction would contradict this idea since is based off mostly intelligence rather than some supernatural power.
Click to expand...
No. While the Eyes let her peak into infinite possibilities, Musashi herself can also device tens of thousands of attack plans for the future and combat scenarios that happen.

Yagyu's Suigetsu, in specific, counters that.
 
I agree with most of this, aside from matter manip for Muramasa or info resistance for Yagyu

Muramasa is clearly referring to bonds in a more abstract sense, not molecular bonds or anything of the sort.

Musashi was reading possible futures to try to fight Yagyu, she just couldn't find any futures in which she won.
He wasn't resisting her precog at all. If he was it would completely contradict the entire rest of the fight, as well as the way she develops her fight hax in said fight.

Iffy on immeasurable speed, so I'll remain neutral there.
 
So will musashi get info analysis instead of analytical prediction?

Musashi thought of any upcoming attacks, analyzed and adapted to them. is that info analysis?
 
She should get Info Analysis and actual Precog, if I understand correctly. Going off of the description given of her swimsuit variant.

"Her "Heavenly Eye" is honed to the extreme to see through the enemy's various defenses to annihilate them.
Since it sees through every defense within visual range, it affects not just an individual but entire groups as well."

Don't recall if we should also add Analytical Prediction to that, but I wouldn't be surprised.
 
I will agree with most except for the matter manipulation as Muramasa isn’t intending to cut bonds in a physical sense, but in a more abstract sense.

Hell his entire thing was to develop a blade that literally goes beyond the physical things to going into the abstract concepts like Karma and so on.
 
CrimsonStarFallen said:
No. Yagyu never mastered Suigetsu while he was alive, he states in his Interlude he only did it as a Servant. And if he did master it while alive it's still a massive outlier for base Musashi (although, you could argue that since Musashi reached Zero while fighting Yagyu, she wasn't even in base anyway)

Either way, Immeasurable speed Zero/Infinity guys is fine to me. They very explicitly exist beyond space-time and Kojiro's power is explicitly said to go beyond the limits of time and space. Also, like, they reach a realm beyond existence and nonexistence while fighting, so.
Click to expand...
Tbf, the only reason why they have a fight like that in the first place is because they are swordman that is basically Infinity vs Zero IIRC and I think will been a eternal stalemate without a true winner since the only reason Musashi “won” the duel is because of the MC.

Other than that, this was the only time when two sword masters being pulled into a realm on where they achieve this particular feat.
 
LordGinSama said:
Fate Hax is already treated as instantaneous, for example if you can attack the future then the present will be altered automatically as a consequence. That's like me giving Yhwach infinite attack speed via the Almighty.


Also I'm not all too sure on giving base Musashi infinite speed reactions, as that would cause a lot of inconsistencies in the profiles since others scale to her iirc
Click to expand...
Yeah, giving Musashi infinite speed reactions is rather off putting since the only time we get a feat like this is basically between two sword masters at their peak which is Infinity vs Zero and if I not mistaken, that means their skills have been achieved at the highest level possible too.
 
Musashi doesn't have instant reactions, she's just constantly sifting through possible futures as she fights. Until she fights Yagyu, after which she just fatehaxes whenever.
 
Also typically speaking a single statement of infinite moves being made instantly aren't usually accepted as infinite or immeasurable speeds as this could be a result of hax, hence why Vash the Stampede is 5-B with 4-D hax as opposed to being outright 2-A.


Especially since Musashi directly utilizes Fate manipulation in combat. It's a result of her Fate hax as opposed to her raw speed imo.
 
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