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Minor Fate revision

CrimsonStarFallen

CrimsonStarFallen

VS Battles
Thread Moderator
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3,862
Just a revision for things i've noticed across the games.

Stay Night and Hollow Ataraxia

Rin Tohsaka
Should have minor Matter Manipulation, since she fixed Shirou's window with magic.

Should have Energy Absorption with the Zelretch sword, since it absorbs energy in the air to shoot the energy blast.

Should have Multiversal+ range with Energy Absorption with the Zelretch sword, since she absorbs energy from other infinite universes.

She really shouldn't have a separated key for the Zelretch sword, no one else has that. Instead, the keys should be merged.

Now, here's a big one.

Rin should have non-combat applicable, opitional equipment, suicidal Probability Manipulation and Causality Manipulation.

Comes from this scene in Hollow Ataraxia. Basically, Rin made a miniature version of the Zelretch sword, which massively backfired and exploded on her (which would be a dura feat if it could be calculated. Too bad it can't).

Anyway, Rin basically fired off a singularity, which was going to cause malfunctions in causality, cross phenomenas and cause the future to lead into the past, creating a world were all possibilities happen at once.

Now, while that didn't actually happen, it's said that the only reason it didn't was pure luck, so Rin could very well do that again and cause that too happen.

Sakura Matou
During her entire fight with Ri, it's said time and time again by the narration that their magical imput is equal. Zelretch's, and by extension Excalibur, have a output of 1000 magical points. Sakura's giants have a output of 1000 each as well.

So i propose they are upgraded to either 6-C or 7-A, possibly 6-C.

Also, adding to Sakura's weakness as Dark Sakura, once she starts lossing, she starts to panic.

Shirou Emiya
Unlimited Blade Works protective sword suit is actually just swords inside UBW leaking into his body, and they even managed to shatter Rider (Fate/stay night)'s dagger. So i say they should be "At least Mountain level". Worth noting that this doesn't mean Shirou can just survive 7-A attacks, it just means he can soften blows by letting the blades absorb the shock.

Fate route should have 9-A AP from killing Kirei, and all of his keys should have 9-A dura in general.

His first key should go. It has no reason to exist, Shirou barely stays anytime in it, and he can barely even use magecraft in it.

Saber (Fate/stay night)
Someone should add her Low Complex Multiversal level dura via Avalon back, i don't know why it was removed and it's still in Shirou's page.

Grand Order
Caster (Cú Chulainn) should have minor Probability Manipulation since he can use misfortune runes. I think this would scale to Lancer (Scáthach), since he learned all of his rune magic from her afaik.

Archer (James Moriarty) should have Memory Manipulation since he can use hypnosis to erase Babbage's memories (around 41 minutes in)

And i think that's it.
 
Honestly this is a pretty straight Fate CRT, which is a nice surprise for once. I agree with everything the OP has listed. And I believe Sabers durability via Avalon was downgraded on the basis that it isn't technically a feat of durability but rather hax. ( Not 100% sure however. )
 
If we do count it as hax, we should take it off Shirou's page and add it as Self-BFR and Power Null iirc.
 
Same...But why not both ? Also it grants regeration too right ?

Speaking of which, can Saber Alter (The one from Grand Order for example) use Avalon ? Or her Lancer selves for that matter
 
Wait I thought she just ended up preferring using Rhongomyniad rather than using her swords, I always thought she just left them somewhere lying around
 
If she took the sword and/or got Avalon she would have stopped aging and she would have the same body as her Saber forms
 
Something else we need to look at with Avalon is that it grants resistance to to the 5 true magics. What were those again??? Soul, time, space?? I forgot the others
 
  • "It is complete isolation.
    The barrier of fairyland that keeps out all filth from the outside lands. A complete world separate from this one that can never be reached.
    As Saber is protected by the sheath of the holy sword, she is blocked off from all matter in this world.
    The greatest protection in this world.
    The greatest that cannot be infringed by anything not even by the five sorceries. It has the ability to heal the wounds of its owner and stop their aging, but it can actually be called a "Moving fortress" centred on an individual. By producing the sheath and moving oneself into the land of the fairies, it shuts out all physical interactions. It can even defend against one of the sorceries, interation." [1]
  • "It is a Noble Phantasm at the level of magic, that completely shuts out all physical interference, transliners from parallel worlds, and communication from other dimensions (up to the sixth).
    If Saber secludes herself with this, none will be able to reach her."
[2]

So what do we got here with Avalon? Resistance to Matter Manipulation , BFR ,

Acausality type 4 maybe type 5 Acausality type 1 maybe???

Resistance to whatever the 5 sorceries are??

6th dimensional resistance to mind, sense, and perception manipulation maybe???

Higher Dimensional Manipulation /Existence????

Immortality type 1

Self BFR

Invincibility, and Intangibility

Resistance to Time Manipulation , and Spatial Manipulation .

Self Healing and better Regenerationn
 
I don't know if it's really "resisting those things" as much as it's just repelling it because it's not 6D
 
I'm just gonna focus on the OP here for myself firstly.

FSN revisions:

-Rin: Yeah those are fine. I only watched fragments of each route so I didn't get any and all info, including the minor ones like above. Anyways, I kinda thought Rin would get 2-A range energy absorption via Zeldritch sword unless the reason why she doesn't is because the sword is a replica and can only allow her to reach far? Also if that's the case, Zeldritch's actual named sword should have it too.

-Sakura: Looks good to me. IDK about a straight 6-C so maybe a 7A, possibly 6C can suffice? Tho since they're stated to have equal magical power (uhhh....right?), 6C I wouldn't mind then.

-Shirou: Agree.

-Saber: Not so much as a yes or no, but I think the reason Avalon was removed from her profile (albeit, one that should have been done either by CRT or, at least, give a reason for removal that would let anyone know when they check the edit history) was it might have to do with her not having Avalon for a majority of FSN, and not being able to use it in UBW and HF. IDK if that's truly the case so don't quote me on it.

That's my take on FSN's, now for FGO.

-Caster Cu: I agree. And it should scale Scathach if not also the other Cu's since even from his normal Lancer self, Cu's known to have been taught just about everything there is to know with combat, including rune magic by her so I would assume that whatever he has that he can use, chances are it's something Scathach must have taught him and thus she can use it as well.

-Moriary: I can agree with that. Though you seemed to linked Moriarty's with Cu's runes link there, just to let you know.

Also, may we add changing King Hassa's name? He seems pretty add to have a name like that when it was some nickname that ended up catching on with everyone. I've talked with Everlasting about this and both of us thought he should get a proper class profile name, something like "Assassin (First Hassan)" should work.
 
For Rin i meant 2-A range, yeah.

If the reason Saber got Avalon removed was that, then Shirou shouldn't have it in the first place.

I'll fix James's link later.
 
King Hassan is actually an offical name of his, Ritsuka named him that and he adopted the name
 
I should explain a bit with Ever's thoughts that it's not only because it's a nickname that was plastered on cuz Guda thought it was cool, but also cuz his in-game profile and the story identifies him as "First Hassan", hence the idea he should have the latter as his new name.
 
His name in game is "The First Hassan" tho.

But then again, Saber's in game name is "Altria", so what do i know.
 
@Crimson: Pretty sure the Saber thing is some weird dubbing name DW tries to make sense of her name before it was decided sometime ago to just name her "Artoria".

I'm still in line to just changing King Hassan's name to "Assassin (First Hassan)". He only took that name cuz he didn't mind it when Guda called him that, even tho the story and in-game name titles doesn't call him that.
 
Do note somewhere the absorption is for the alternate words, I can see some people misunderstanding and thinking she could just succ all the energy in her own battlefield.

I don't really agree with the 7-A because of magical units. Rin has been storing energy for years in her main 20 jewels and by all means should have more than merely 1000 units in them, yet they are only somewhat comparable to Caster. Saber as well wastes a whole 250 units or so after battling Lancer and Berserk, but I doubt you'd think she dealt one fourth of the power output of her NP using just physical strikes in her much weaker state. Magical units don't perfectly translate into output, since the person using magic or the artifact channeling the magical energy aren't the same. Aoko is like, the best example of this. She barely uses energy compared to most but she outclasses nearly everyone else in the world for destructive power. Shirou as well as he uses a mere 5 or so units of mana for a projection but depending what he projects he flies up to 7-A. Though, since Zelretch is a special sword I do think it should come close to that level. Sakura's shadow giants I am... not so sure though, seeing how they get killed in one hit despite completely similar magic levels. \

Agree with everything else except the Avalon issue, but I think someone else already commented on that.
 
CrimsonStarFallen said:
Btw, Monarch agreed with this over on discord, he's too lazy busy too comment tho.
Click to expand...
I resemble that remark.

Side note, are we ever going to get a "repair" power page, it seems like something that is more necessary than most suggestions I see on the unofficial P&A thread
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Do note somewhere the absorption is for the alternate words, I can see some people misunderstanding and thinking she could just succ all the energy in her own battlefield.
Click to expand...
Actually, it is said she succs the energy in the battlefield. She sucked the mana in the air of the cave she was in, then she moved on to the cave in another world.
 
What I always thought and remembered is that she was just succing the mana in the caves from alternate worlds. After all, Shirou isn't gonna have enough Mana to trace just from his Od if the cave was dried, and after a place is dried of the ambiental mana it takes a good amount of time for it to fill up again, hence why Zelretch sucks off from successive worlds.
 
Kind of weird, since the narration basically says "Rin uses the Od from the cave, then she uses other parallel worlds to use their Od."

Chalk it up to inconsistency maybe?
 
Od is the internal energy in the body, mana is the ambient energy from the world. I don't think Shirou would be able to trace again from his Od if he was already so drained and the cave was also fully drained.

But eh, is a small detail so either or is alright really. You can go about it how you like.
 
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