MHA: General Scaling And Movie Revisions

[TheRustyOne]

Alright, back at this again. Now the Cube feat which is currently used to scale to quite a number of people has been recalculated at High 7-C. This would affect every single character that scales to this, and which will me downgrades. However before we go into this stuff, we need to discuss what feats in the movies maybe considered an outlier.

These are all of the movie feats and the manga feats that I can find. Note: I say manga feats but I'm including accepted calcs that use the anime in some ways, since using only manga would be impossible to calc those feats. Which is considered acceptable in this wiki, as long as the scenes are very similar to the manga and cannot be properly calculated in the manga.

Let's focus on the lower tier characters AP and Speed first, than we can move onto the higher tier characters. Else we distract ourselves by trying to tackle too many things at once.

I have some thoughts about the lower tier scaling, but first let's figure what calcs we can or can't use before we start giving ratings.

Is Bakugo's 10.51 Tons feat an outlier to his usually showings? He has two High 8-C feats in the manga, 5.13 Tons (Sports Festival) and 6.68 Tons (Final Exam). I've explained why Bakugo would scale to his blast, as he can take the recoil of his explosions without suffering major injuries, these blast detonate in the palm of his hands so he should feel the full force of that recoil.

In Heroes Rising, Bakugo would perform a 8.12 Tons explosion against Nine.

We also have Izuku's Hypersonic bullet feat here, which apparently goes well with Iida's Hypersonic calc from the manga. 5% Izuku was shown to match the speed of Recipro Extend Iida, as both jumped to Stain and reached him at the same time. Todoroki in the manga, has a Supersonic calc for the speed of his ice during the Sports Festival.

Is the movie's Hypersonic feat seen as an outlier?

Let's try to figure out what feats are consistent between the movies and the manga. Is the current ratings for the lower tier characters alright, or do they need to change?

 

[TheRustyOne]

In case anyone is wondering, read this to see why we accept the MHA movies as canon.

 

[Therefir]

The High 8-C+ and Hypersonic ratings are consistent and can stay, Bakugo's strongest explosions already reached High 8-C+ levels of power before the movie.

As Rusty said, Deku was able to reach Stain after Ingenium jumped using his Recipro Extent, so they have around the same movement speed.

 

[Ultimate_Invader_Pendulum]

I know what I will say is a copy paste of what I said in the general discussion thread, but it is an opinion that I want to share:


Ironically, we DO have an official reference to how strong All might is at the beginning of the series compared to All might in two heroes, that shouldn't be that different from the same in Kamino; but still more consistent than what we can obtain with the cube calc

It is as official as the size of the tower in that movie, the size found out that altered the result of the last cube calc, with the exception that this graph exists specifically to show us how much all might has weakened. For me, that graph should be a more reliable source to follow on the strength of All might, than the fan calc of a giant cube that could be a lot more dense than we think.

If we take into consideration something like the size of the building, even if it is information that passes so fleetingly in a movie, why not take into consideration a graph whose function is to directly tell us how much all might have weakened?

All might at start of series = 7500
All might in two heroes = 2500

3 times weaker

All might at the beginning of the series = makes it rain with a shock wave (at least 5.4 MT) we know that a direct hit is stronger (at least 10.8 mt,)

All might on two heroes and Kamino should have a power of at least 3.6 megatons

So, we get a graph that literally shows us the consistent decline of all might and in the process we get a better reference for the characters.

 

[Damage3245]

I've explained why Bakugo would scale to his blast, as he can take the recoil of his explosions without suffering major injuries, these blast detonate in the palm of his hands so he should feel the full force of that recoil.

Strictly speaking wouldn't the palms of his hands be experiencing half of the blast at most?

which apparently goes well with Iida's Hypersonic calc from the manga

It's a little funny but doesn't this Iida calc require Stain to have only Superhuman speed?

 

[Ultimate_Invader_Pendulum]

Strictly speaking wouldn't the palms of his hands be experiencing half of the blast at most?

The explosions are originating directly from his hands, why would his hands only take half the damage? even if so, that does not cancel the recoil that the explosions should cause

 

[Therefir]

It's a little funny but doesn't this Iida calc require Stain to have only Superhuman speed?

And Deku's Massively Hypersonic feat requires Nagant's bullets to be Supersonic+, even though they are faster than his 45%.

It's not like Stain's movement speed is scaling from Iida, so I'm not sure what's your point.

 

[Damage3245]

And Deku's Massively Hypersonic feat requires Nagant's bullets to be Supersonic+, even though they are faster than his 45%.

It's not like Stain's movement speed is scaling from Iida, so I'm not sure what's your point.

Actually that feat is Hypersonic+ now for Izuku IIRC. Profiles need to be updated.

 

[Therefir]

I would like to see that calc but there are other examples as well, such as base Deku's Supersonic feat assuming Shinso can only throw his weapon at Peak Human speeds.

 

[Therefir]

Actually that feat is Hypersonic+ now for Izuku IIRC. Profiles need to be updated.

I just checked the calc in question, and it's hilariously wrong, it assumes 45% Deku swung around a building 300 meters, while the bullet only had to travel 80, despite the bullet being faster than 45%. I guess the bullet was frozen and waiting for Deku to finish turning around to start travelling those 80 meters again.

The old calc should still work.

 

[Damage3245]

I just checked the calc in question, and it's hilariously wrong, it assumes 45% Deku swung around a building 300 meters, while the bullet only had to travel 80, despite the bullet being faster than 45%. I guess the bullet was frozen and waiting for Deku to finish turning around to start travelling those 80 meters again.

Why would the bullet need to be frozen for that? The bullet just needs to be slower than how Deku was moving, which as you pointed out, it is.

Either way you look at it, the old calc has to be removed anyway for being wrong.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I think the 10 ton feat for Bakugo is an outlier. He fired off like 4 of those attacks at once without much issue when earlier 3 seemingly weaker attacks threatened to give him permanent damage against AM.

 

[Damage3245]

I think the 10 ton feat for Bakugo is an outlier. He fired off like 4 of those attacks at once without much issue when earlier 3 seemingly weaker attacks threatened to give him permanent damage against AM.

It wasn't just 4 of them too in that scene; it was a barrage of several blasts from Bakugo in a row. The calc is just for the first four of them.

 

[RidleyX]

I just checked the calc in question, and it's hilariously wrong, it assumes 45% Deku swung around a building 300 meters, while the bullet only had to travel 80, despite the bullet being faster than 45%. I guess the bullet was frozen and waiting for Deku to finish turning around to start travelling those 80 meters again.

The old calc should still work.

Which calc is hilariously wrong?

 

[Therefir]

You don't get it, the bullet was about 80 meters away from hitting Chisaki before Deku even started swinging, with Lady Nagant firing another bullet at Deku while all this was going on. And I have to remind you because you seem to have forgotten, Deku was swinging at 45% around the building, he wasn't using Fa Jin yet

So the calc basically assumes 45% Deku and Lady Nagant's second bullet are somehow several times faster than the first bullet she shot at Chisaki, the calc doesn't make any sense.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

You don't get it, the bullet was about 80 meters away from hitting Chisaki before Deku even started swinging, with Lady Nagant firing another bullet at Deku while all this was going on. And I have to remind you because you seem to have forgotten, Deku was swinging at 45% around the building, he wasn't using Fa Jin yet

So the calc basically assumes 45% Deku and Lady Nagant's second bullet are somehow several times faster than the first bullet she shot at Chisaki, the calc doesn't make any sense.

So will it be redone?

 

[Damage3245]

You don't get it, the bullet was about 80 meters away from hitting Chisaki before Deku even started swinging, with Lady Nagant firing another bullet at Deku while all this was going on. And I have to remind you because you seem to have forgotten, Deku was swinging at 45% around the building, he wasn't using Fa Jin yet

So the calc basically assumes 45% Deku and Lady Nagant's second bullet are somehow several times faster than the first bullet she shot at Chisaki, the calc doesn't make any sense.

That's not true. He did use Fajin to swing around the building.

Her visibly gets faster during the swinging, as indicated by the look on his face and Lady Nagant's reaction too.

 

[Therefir]

That's not true. He did use Fajin to swing around the building.

Her visibly gets faster during the swinging, as indicated by the look on his face and Lady Nagant's reaction too.

Ignoring that we have already had a long discussion about whether he was using Fa Jin or not to swing, the calculation still has to take into account the distance traveled by Nagant's second bullet, and subtract that distance from the 80 meters of the first bullet.

 

[Damage3245]

Ignoring that we have already had a long discussion about whether he was using Fa Jin or not to swing, the calculation still has to take into account the distance traveled by Nagant's second bullet, and subtract that distance from the 80 meters of the first bullet.

Okay, well I wasn't involved in that long discussion so I can't comment on that.

 

[RidleyX]

So will it be redone?

Apparently the new calc has serious flaws in it so it looks like the old calc will stand.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...Hero_Academia:_Deku_Outspeeds_a_Bullet_Redone

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Ah ok. The old one was the MHS one right?

 

[RidleyX]

Ah ok. The old one was the MHS one right?

Yeah, ironically the same person who made the original calc made the new butchered one.

 

[Therefir]

We have strayed from the main topic, we need to discuss whether Bakugo's High 8-C+ feat in the movie is consistent with the manga.

Rusty counted frame by frame 4 explosions during that first barrage, so the numbers should be fine.

About if Bakugo was using his strongest explosions or not, I actually think he wasn't, in the Sports Festival Race he injured his hands simply by using small explosions to move, and I think the same thing happened to him in the movie.

This should explain why he was able to use that barrage of explosions, when in his fight against All Might he was only able to release a few of his strongest blast.

 

[Damage3245]

About if Bakugo was using his strongest explosions or not, I actually think he wasn't, in the Sports Festival Race he injured his hands simply by using small explosions to move, and I think the same thing happened to him in the movie.

Isn't this contradictory? Bakugo's durability is scaling to his strongest explosions because he can fire them off without being damaged, but Bakugo also gets injured from using small explosions to move?

 

[Therefir]

Isn't this contradictory? Bakugo's durability is scaling to his strongest explosions because he can fire them off without being damaged, but Bakugo also gets injured from using small explosions to move?

This means even his smallest explosions have somewhat comparable power to his bigger ones, finally everyone can get back to High 8-C.

Some users have commented that you could be hurt in real life by something much weaker than your durability if it is performed many times, when I brought that up in other thread.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

So Bakugo’s weaker explosions are almost twice the strength of his stronger blasts?

Remember it was stuff like this that spawned this CRT. The 10 ton feat should be an outlier since we have two full power attacks notably weaker than this feat.

 

[Therefir]

So Bakugo’s weaker explosions are almost twice the strength of his stronger blasts?

Remember it was stuff like this that spawned this CRT. The 10 ton feat should be an outlier since we have two full power attacks notably weaker than this feat.

I measured the 6 tons explosion using a building in front of it, much closer to the point of view.

It should be a lot bigger if we had a better view of the explosion, so stop using that to make it look like the one in the movie is an outlier.

 

[Damage3245]

So Bakugo’s weaker explosions are almost twice the strength of his stronger blasts?

Remember it was stuff like this that spawned this CRT. The 10 ton feat should be an outlier since we have two full power attacks notably weaker than this feat.

At the very least, this explosion from the movie shouldn't be backscaling to the earlier arcs even if we did use it.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I measured the 6 tons explosion using a building in front of it, much closer to the point of view.

It should be a lot bigger if we had a better view of the explosion, so stop using that to make it look like the one in the movie is an outlier.

The calc doesn’t say 10 tons. It might be bigger but that’s what we have. There’s also still a 5 ton calc from the Sports Fest and an 8 ton one from Heroes Rising after Bakugo is stronger.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I just checked the calc in question, and it's hilariously wrong, it assumes 45% Deku swung around a building 300 meters, while the bullet only had to travel 80, despite the bullet being faster than 45%. I guess the bullet was frozen and waiting for Deku to finish turning around to start travelling those 80 meters again.

The old calc should still work.

To be honest, I was just doing what others were suggesting but in hindsight, I think it's fine as is. There's something I need to do in the original calc though so I'd need to make a slight adjustment to it regardless.

 

[CloverDragon03]

To be honest, I was just doing what others were suggesting but in hindsight, I think it's fine as is. There's something I need to do in the original calc though so I'd need to make a slight adjustment to it regardless.

Updated the original calc. Just had to alter something with the PoV in the first part of the calc so now it's actually higher than before.

 

[Damage3245]

To be honest, I was just doing what others were suggesting but in hindsight, I think it's fine as is. There's something I need to do in the original calc though so I'd need to make a slight adjustment to it regardless.

We just had a whole Calc Group Discussion thread where we agreed with removing the original method.

I'll continue the discussion on there tomorrow.

 

[CloverDragon03]

We just had a whole Calc Group Discussion thread where we agreed with removing the original method.

I'll continue the discussion on there tomorrow.

Well I'd go into more but I guess that'd be saved for that thread, so TL;DR my opinion has changed since then

 

[TheRustyOne]

At the very least, this explosion from the movie shouldn't be backscaling to the earlier arcs even if we did use it.

It's stated in the Training Arc, which happens after the first movie, that Bakugo and the others' Quirks haven't gotten stronger. Their improvements have mostly been mental and techniques. "But it's only your techniques and minds that have matured. Well, and your bodies, a bit. But as you've all just seen, your Quirks haven't kept up with the pace."

Bakugo's explosions are not massively stronger, they might be a little stronger, but I'd say it isn't enough to change any results.

 

[BruhMomento0260]

Wait the cube feat was redone to actually use the height of the tower for once? I remember making my first thread on the site about this feat saying how there's no way the cube is as big as the first calc says because we have a rough idea of how big the platform would be based on the height of the tower but it was never taken seriously : P

 

[CloverDragon03]

Agree with Rusty on this, that was explicitly stated by Aizawa (and demonstrated by Bakugo's score on one of the Quirk tests being barely higher than at the beginning of the school year)

 

[Damage3245]

It's stated in the Training Arc, which happens after the first movie, that Bakugo and the others' Quirks haven't gotten stronger. Their improvements have mostly been mental and techniques. "But it's only your techniques and minds that have matured. Well, and your bodies, a bit. But as you've all just seen, your Quirks haven't kept up with the pace."

Bakugo's explosions are not massively stronger, they might be a little stronger, but I'd say it isn't enough to change any results.

This is contradicted by the results of the feats themselves.

Which goes back to the results from the movie being inconsistent / an outlier.

 

[Therefir]

After all the trouble I went through changing dozens of profiles just two days ago...

Alright, let's just go with the Sports Festival feat, we haven't even started with the top tier changes.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

After all the trouble I went through changing dozens of profiles just two days ago...

Alright, let's just go with the Sports Festival feat, we haven't even started with the top tier changes.

Alright so should we move on to top tiers or is there more to be said with the mid tiers cause hypersonic 5% Deku isn’t something I seriously disagree with (or have strong arguments for)

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Wait, why is that one feat an outlier if Bakugo did it and it hurt him to do? And then he does a feat near its level, and isn’t hurt in a stronger key? Why isn’t that consistent?