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Mega Man Classic Series Content Revisions Part 1: Cleaning up the Mess.

Migue79

Migue79

He/Him
VS Battles
Calculation Group
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Whew. There will be a LOT to address here.

Profile Abilities & Justifications

First of all, as Rodri Dante stated here, there is A LOT of misinformation in our Mega Man profiles. With incorrect justifications, cross-continuity scaling, and some characters (mainly Proto Man & Bass) having access to weapons they shouldn't have, I feel like this is important to tackle here. These need to be fixed ASAP.

Profile Keys

Next thing will be the fact that Rock and some of the Robot Masters should get Manga profiles and not keys. They are completely different to their canonical counterparts so it makes no sense for them to just be keys. How different are they, though? Well, they have different personalities, abilities and statistics. Speaking of statistics.

Statistics to Canon/Manga Profiles and Scaling

Our AP statistics for our Classic Mega Man profiles are flawed:
  • The current Wily Star calculation which justifies our High 5-A ratings is flawed in the sense that it uses parallax scaling without accounting for perspective. Of course, accounting for it makes the values go up. But it's very likely the developers of Mega Man V are not aware of the implications of these. As such, I feel as if my current Wily Star calculation should be removed from the profiles, and all Classic Era profiles should be temporarily downgraded to 5-A+ with this already accepted Duo calculation. The characters will keep their Massively FTL rating since the one in the blog is just support.

  • There is also this calculation (Bomb Man's Hyper Bomb AP) that will be used to downgrade the Mega Man 1-5 Robot Masters to "At least Mountain level, likely Large Planet level+", since those Robot Masters scaling to the top tiers is not 100% concrete. The ones that were rebuilt that appear in MM8 and the Arcade Games (which were confirmed to be canon by the Robot Master Field Guide) will get another key of them fully scaling to the Top tiers, though.

  • Manga Rock (the only Mega Man character with a Manga Profile ATM) needs to have their AP downgraded from Planet level for the time being for the same feat. The problem with the rating is that the currently accepted calculation for this feat is making unsupported assumptions like the Earth being vaporized with 1% power. Nowhere in the manga is this stated. Even then, in the same panel, Wily said he would clean the Earth from the humans. This pretty much discards the possibility of anything involving the overcoming of the Earth's GBE or even pulverizing/vaporizing the entire thing. I propose we downgrade him to Multi-Continental for the same feat since the text more implies surface wiping and High Hypersonic+ via this calculation for the time being.
Last thing that isn't all too major is Dr. Wily having this calculation to justify him being Superhuman. So his durability for his Human key should be Wall level and Superhuman Physical Characteristics.

That is all for this first CRT. I do have plans and new proposals for new revisions in the future. But I feel as if these issues NEED to be sorted out first.
 
In favor of everything related to the Mega Man Classic games, I'm not knowledgeable about anything else.
 
Massive thanks for Amelia for calcing this. This is the calculation that would appear to be used to justify his rating once it gets approved of course.

Though one could also use the Common Reference result for wiping the surface of the planet.
 
BTW, how do we treat the weapons from the Arcade Games?

Because both games are separated in three paths, so besides Mega Man no one should carry weapons from different paths at the same time.
 
I’m not a fan of Rock having keys. As a robot, he doesn’t get stronger unless upgraded, which only happened when he got the Charge Shot. He’d just be 5-A in general.
 
He also got upgraded in Mega Man V after his first encounter with Terra.

Also, I feel as if his speed will remain the same regardless of the game he appears in because all his upgrades that he received were specified to only be related to his AP. Nothing else.
 
The_real_cal_howard said:
I’m not a fan of Rock having keys. As a robot, he doesn’t get stronger unless upgraded, which only happened when he got the Charge Shot. He’d just be 5-A in general.
Click to expand...
Man, you're out of touch with the franchise.
Migue79 said:
We can treat them as optional equipment, then?
Click to expand...
Of course, but it doesn't solve the problem of users making threads with impossible weapon combinations.
 
Oh yeah I disagree with Rock also being limited like that. Iirc the reason he doesn’t have them all is because he chooses not to. Too much power and all. Not to mention MM10 shows that he can have his weapons from past games, still having the Mega Man Killers’ weapons.
 
The_real_cal_howard said:
Oh yeah I disagree with Rock also being limited like that. Iirc the reason he doesn’t have them all is because he chooses not to. Too much power and all. Not to mention MM10 shows that he can have his weapons from past games, still having the Mega Man Killers’ weapons.
Click to expand...
Way back on Mega Man: The Wily Wars Mega Man was unable to carry more than 8 weapons in the Wily Tower Mode, so a limit does exist, it's just that the limit is inconsistent since has carried up to 16 weapons
 
That came out in the 90s. If anything, MM10 retconned it. It’s probably game mechanics that he couldn’t carry them all, especially given you could only take three transport items too (You can get Item 1, Item 2, and Rush, but somehow that means Rush would be limited to Coil, Jet, or Marine)
 
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I'm not saying that 8 is his limit (The game boy games have him with up to 9 weapons and Super Rockman Adventure has him carry 16), what I'm saying is that a limit exist, but isn't defined.

We can't make Mega Man carry all of his weapons at once because he has never done it before.
 
The point is that’s more of a matter of choice than limitation. At the very least we’re never given a reason for it outside of non canon materials. A fully equipped Mega Man likely can go in with all 90+ weapons, as the Weapons Archive Wily built, which is <<<< Rock himself, can.
 
@The_real_cal_howard

So since Rock is a robot, he can't get stronger naturally and needs to rely on upgrades? I'm sorry but that's just silly. Rock has blatantly gotten stronger over the past dozen games. In the original Mega Man, he gets three-shotted by Elec Man's electricity and Ice Man's nigh-AZ yet, several games later, he's tanking Cloud Man's natural lightning and Cold Man's true AZ. In the earlier games, Rock has fought Robot Masters who were described as being powerful enough to destroy buildings and 'any known rock,' yet later fights powerhouses like Sunstar and Duo without issue and we know what those guys are capable of. In terms of overall stats (not just AP), Rock has gotten stronger over time and fights even stronger foes than before.

Also, Rock has received other upgrades than the Charge Shot. He received the Mega Arm in Mega Man V to combat the Stardroids' extraterrestrial composition, learns the slide in Mega Man 3, etc. Also, the Double Gear System? That upgrade alone has made Rock powerful as hell. But the point is, while these upgrades do increase Rock's stats to help him out, he doesn't always receive a significant upgrade every game and when he occasionally does, it doesn't entirely explain how he's able to go toe-to-toe with foes who are designed to kill him and who are supposed to be more powerful than him. For example, while the Mega Arm increases Rock's AP, it doesn't explain how he's able to keep up with the likes of Sunstar and even tank some of his attacks. There was no upgrade to his durability or combat speed so Rock has obviously grown stronger over time, just like any other character in fiction and on this site regardless if he's a robot.
 
Yeah, speed doesn't really change from game to game.
The_real_cal_howard said:
The point is that’s more of a matter of choice than limitation. At the very least we’re never given a reason for it outside of non canon materials. A fully equipped Mega Man likely can go in with all 90+ weapons, as the Weapons Archive Wily built, which is <<<< Rock himself, can.
Click to expand...
???
 
@Migue79
I'm... actually not sure. I would say my explanation above applies to this too, but I'm not sure now. The progression for Rock becoming more powerful in terms of AP actually makes sense as he goes from fighting building-busters to island-busters to the likes of Duo and Sunstar as time went on, but for speed? The progression for speed seems to be wonky. In the original Mega Man, Rock can react to Elec Man's Thunder Beam, but then in Mega Man 2 he reacts to the Force Beams and then in Mega Man 3 he reacts to Gemini Man's Gemini Laser. Then much later, he receives his huge speed upgrades like the Wily Star's lasers and Duo in his Meteor Form. It's a huge spike up in terms of speed. And in terms of upgrades, the only speed upgrade he received was in MM11.

I would suppose since the keys are pre-MMV and post-MMV (or Novice Years and Prime Years) or whatever the keys may be, then novice Rock would be slower (like FTL or something) than prime Rock (who has his MFTL+ speed upgrades). I mean it makes sense since MM1 Rock isn't as fast as MM8 Rock. There's a difference. But then again, let's see what other have to say about this, I'm still trying to wrap my head around this.

If anyone can offer any ideas or suggestions I'm all for it.
 
For AP it makes sense for me because he goes from getting one-shot by Terra at the very beginning of the game to defeating Sunstar who is by all means superior to all the Stardroids. He also goes from nearly dying to a machine that Duo straight up fodderized to throwing hands with Bass & Wily who were amped by Evil Energy (which Duo struggled to repel at the beginning of MM8).

For speed... Yeah. It’s not as clear cut. But the fact that makes me think it doesn’t apply is the fact that Terra didn’t blitz Rock in their fight.

Wait... There’s also Rush being upgraded for the Massively FTL speed feats of MMV... Hmm...
 
Wait, no. Never mind. Rock would probably scale to the same thing in speed no matter the time.

Since Quick Man is stated to be one of the fastest robots Dr. Wily had ever built in Mega Man & Bass, I feel like it’s more supported.
 
I think the confusion regarding Rock becoming stronger may come from the lore being only clear cut regarding X having the potential of growing and evolving, but if we go by feats and encounters, as Migue and X_Squared mention, Rock has displayed growth when facing and doing better agains increasingly stronger enemies.

The games have never established that any of the Megamen have limitation with their subweapons per se, beyond gameplay. I mean, there isn't evidence in the story in favor or against it. But if that's the case the gameplay limitation should be considered? I mean, you usually have 8 weapons because that's how many you get in a single game, but in games like Super Rockman Adventure, do you have more than 16 weapons to choose yet are limited to a certain number?
 
This is the very definition of NLF: Mega Man has never been stated to have a limit in the number of Special Weapons he can carry, therefore he can carry them all at once.

Talking about things that might be game mechanics: Do we consider Mega Man being unable to attack while using the Time Stopper one? Mega Man 4, Mega Man 8 and Mega Man & Bass show he can at least fire (Uncharged) Buster shots while having a weapon equiped.
 
i don't think my saying means as much because i'm a little out of touch with the other materials but this seems to make sense
 
Rock does clearly get stronger between games, although less because of the game mechanics related argument and more because Dr Light is constantly upgrading him.

OP seems fine to me.
 
I'm... The OP, Ant... xD

My opinion on the whole Rock keeping all his weapons is very middling because the series does not go out of its way to establish a limit in lore. In Gameplay, there is a limit of course. Lore wise? It's a huge question mark that only Capcom can answer, really. Like, I don't remember Rock saying that he can't carry anymore weapons or the like in Cutscenes during the game Super Adventure Rockman. Do correct me if I am wrong because it's been eons since I saw a let's play of SAR.

And even if it were the case, it wouldn't be that much of a big deal, since the limit would be 16 Weapons, and that is enough to have 1 ability that takes up 1-3 abilities that are listed in Rock's profile. For example, he can have Black Hole which already takes up 3 of his listed abilities: those being Black Hole Creation, Time Stop and Gravity Manipulation. And there are other weapons that fall under more than 2-3 of his listed abilities like Black Hole.

But again, just my 2 cents on that matter.
 
Not to mention there are also support items like Beat's Shield and Rush Bike that wouldn't fill up his weapon count as they are independent from Mega Man, so is not like Rock won't have options.

Speaking about Rush, does he have a limit? Because he often doesn't have funtions he had in the last game (In Mega Man V he needed to have the Function Space re-installed despite having it in Mega Man IV, which chronologically comes right before), and given most functions require Rush to alter his body it makes sense he has a limit.
 
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