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ImmortalDread

Call me Dread
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VS Battles
Retired
18,393
14,303

Introduction​


As you guys know, Maou Gakuin cosmology is presently at the 2-A tier.
The good news (bad news for haters) is that we got more scans/statements/shreds of evidence for a good possibleness of a low 1-C tier (5D- possibly 6D to be precise)

Cosmology Overview​


eC6QjYv.jpg

Credits for the picture/cosmology go to me @Dread

This is how the cosmology looks like in The Misfit of Demon King Academy Series. You can zoom in to view bubble World and Militia World.

Currently, this is what it looks like:
  • 1 realm (sanctuary) is 2-A (contains countless infinite timeline/space-time continuums)
  • 1 Azure Sky = countless realms
  • 1 bubble contains countless infinite Azure Sky + black sky = countless 2-A
  • 0 layer contains infinite bubbles Worlds
  • 1-99+ layers = countless up to infinite Bubbles
There are 99+ layers in the silver sea. All layers are of the same size. Here is the thread that evaluates our cosmology for 99+ x baseline 2-A (currently one of the strongest 2-As in a wiki)

Note: For more info, here is the cosmology page

Low 1-C (5D) rationalization​


「各々の神域は、世界の縮図。世界の根源の上限が決まっているように、ダ・ク・カダーテの火露の数は決まっていて、この神域の花の数も決まっています」
"Each sanctuary is a microcosm of the world. Just as the upper limit of the root of the world is fixed, the number of fire dewdrops in da ku kadate is fixed, as is the number of flowers in this sanctuary."
「各々の神域は、世界の縮図。世界の根源の上限が決まっているように、ダ・ク・カダーテの火露の数は決まっていて、この神域の花の数も決まっています」

"Each divine domain is a microcosm of the world. Just as the upper limit of the source of the world is fixed, so is the amount of fire dew in Da Ku Kadate, and the number of flowers in this divine domain."

Every sanctuary (realm) is just a microcosm of the bubble. And microcosm is microscopic, miniature, a copy of a larger place, a small unit. So that world is very limited by a bubble and treated only as subsets of it, and make bubble is infinitely greater in all parts of the universes (sanctuary) because universes are only a small unit in the infinite bubble. It also means every sanctuary has the same, similar structure.

ミーシャが目の前を指さす。

 鮮やかな蒼穹に星のように散りばめられているのは、黄金の火山や白色の湖、いばらの大地、車輪のような街など、色とりどりの様々な風景だ。

「ここが神々の蒼穹。見えている風景は、どれも神域」

 エンネスオーネの芽宮神都や、ナフタの限局世界と同じものだ。

 確かに、どれもこれも、凄まじい魔力を発している。

Misha points out in front of him.

 Scattered like stars across the brilliant azure sky are a variety of colorful landscapes, including golden volcanoes, white lakes, thorny lands, and wheel-like cities.

"This is the azure sky of the gods. Every landscape you see is a divine realm."

 It is the same as the budding divine city of Ennesione and the limited world of Nafta.

 Indeed, all of them emit tremendous magical power.

The future world is also a sanctuary. There are countless realms, but the black sky itself is infinite in size and is not bound by the real world.

There is nothing in-between countable infinity and uncountable infinity, so something that is stated to be bigger than the former would result in the latter by necessity. This applies to Maou Gakuin's case, as Kandaquizorte (a 2-A structure) was stated to be small compared to the Bubble.

In math terms


Kandaquizorte (sanctuary) <<<<<<<<<< 1 bubble and there are Infinite bubbles = 1 layer

microcosm statement for the bubble = 5D

Low 1-C (6D) rationalization​


In the Silver Water Holy Sea, 14,000 years ago. Before the God of Creation Militia was born, the name of that bubble world was Elenesia. That is, there is a discrepancy in time between the Silver Sea and the small world. From the perspective of the Militia World, it was roughly more than 700 million years ago--
"Even so, the Militia World was created 700 million years ago, right?" "In the Silver Water Holy Sea, it is only about 14,000 years old." A questioning look appeared on Sasha. Then Misha explained. "Luna fell into the Elenesia World 14,000 years ago." "...Oh, I see, that's right... Huh? But I was certain that the Militia World is 700 million years old since its creation...?" "Perhaps time is out of sync." "...Well, for example, when a day passes in the 7th of Elenesia, a year or even longer passes in the Militia World?" "Simply put, yes. However, I haven't been able to confirm any discrepancy in time between the small worlds we have visited so far and the Militia World. One second here in the 7th of Elenesia is exactly the same as one second in the Militia World." Sasha looked more and more puzzled. "Then, what do you mean?" "A discrepancy in time somehow occurred once. And now, it's back to normal, I guess." For example, if nearly 700 million years have passed only in the Militia World, while time has stopped in this Silver Sea, it would make sense. It's not certain if the Militia World accelerated or if the other small worlds stopped.
The silver water sacred sea is wide.  It is endlessly vast.  Even with her God's eye, which is well penetrated throughout her own world, she is unable to predict the whole picture. Its endlessness felt to her like a distance to peace.  No matter how much we seek peace, we will never get there. This silver sea is so endless that it seems that way.
The gears of the upper limits begin to turn. Limits are raised by the gears, and thou and I are separated by a dimension of power.  Eques tries to crush me with a force that seems to exceed the upper limits of order.
The silver sea's time flow is independent of the bubbles', Therefore the Silver Sea is a separate bigger (extradimensional space) space-time continuum. Elensia can view a complete bubble world (5D) but she cannot perceive the end of the silver sea and perceives it as endless even while being able to see an Infinitely large 5D space. The bubbles are infinitely sized 5D already. Bubble worlds can't perceive the silver sea. Also, an additional note is that they can't even get out of bubbles Worlds without a travelling aka usage of ships. And those ships are created by chief gods. Chief gods transcend the bubble worlds. The world's reality is set by the upper limits of the order. Birth of Eques (chief God) in Militia World (5D) stated to surpass that set limits. Later, that world sinks into layer 1. Exceed means “transcend” in that context, and in Wiki, we always treat those two terms as the same.
The evidence is here


「泡沫世界は未進化の小世界。この銀水聖海においては、生まれていない世界と言えます。なぜなら、泡沫世界には主神と元首がおりません。主神がいなければ、小世界の秩序を完全に制御することはできず、元首がいなければ小世界の住人たちは争い続けます。行く末は、想像に容易いでしょう」
The bubble world is small, unevolved world. In this silver water sacred sea, it can be said that it is a world that has not been born. Because there is no main god and head of state in the bubble world. Without the chief god, the order of the small world cannot be completely controlled, and without the head of state, the inhabitants of the small world will continue to fight. It's easy to imagine how it will end
泡沫世界だったため、ミリティア世界があると証明することも不可能だっただろう。
Because it was a bubble world, it would have been impossible to prove the existance of Militia world
The bubble world is small and unborn bubble if compare to the silver bubble world. As long as the bubble world does not evolve to a silver bubble is impossible to prove its existence, that means in silver sea bubble world is nonexistent or unborn world, and then evolve to a silver bubble is make the world exist

The gap between bubble and silver bubble is non-existence and the existence

Summary
:
  • Author Clearly distinguish between Bubble world and Silver Bubbles
  • Bubble worlds are already 5D
  • Silver bubbles are evolved worlds and to evolve the world needs the birth of Chief God and Conformist. Both surpass the world order and power.
  • Worlds reality is set by a limit. Even realms gods and everything is bound to that limits and it's how a 3D can't reach 4D like that limit is set.
  • Birth of Eques (Chief God) of Militia world indicated that the world will evolve Dimensionally and sink into layer 1 and exceeds that limit in other words Transcends
  • To specify correctly Eques has collected Many worlds fire dew (the reality of the world order) already but only when the world started sinking when a Conformist born and Eque's existence was started to take place. But to sink into deeper layers than shallow layers you need all Shallow layer order.. layer 0 will have infinite worlds order and Layer 1 will get that infinite worlds order. So technically Silver bubbles will have uncountably infinite worlds order.
  • After the introduction of Silver Sea and Silver Bubbles author continuously uses dimensionality to differentiate between the power difference of the worlds. For example, When Anos first met Sasha he displayed power difference and used a lesser fire magic spell to cancel out his greater fire magic spell of Sasha and explained that if the character has more magic even less fire magic can destroy greater magic. But this power between them was never Compared to dimensions and this was not the case when Anos. tried to do the same thing when Silver Sea was introduced. No matter how much magic he put into Geo graze which is the strongest magic in the Bubble world it's not reaching the Silver Bubble.
  • The Elenesia and Mutouh is another example where Elenesia is from Bubble world and Mutouh is from Silver bubbles where narratively stated as both of them different is dimensional.
Conclusion:

Bubble worlds are 5D & Silver Bubbles are Evolved Bubbles (6D). The evolution of Bubbles only takes place during the birth of chief gods and conformists. Chief Gods transcend the world (5D) as explained above. They can't exist in Bubble worlds they exist in specifically Silver bubbles which are Evolved Bubbles. There has been an author continuously comparing the difference between Silver Bubbles and Bubbles dimensions which has not the case until the Silver sea was introduced. That's also we have 3 different statements from different arcs only after the Silver Sea introduction. The series follows the lore of Life can't exist outside of Worlds so technically he is trying to introduce dimensionality based on the world Evolution.

I know it's very confusing but Maou Gakuin has a different set of Cosmology because of Author trying to display his own fictional work. The overall point is he never differentiated something until the Silver Sea was introduced and when Silver Sea and Silver Bubbles were introduced he directly jumped to dimensionality. And He clearly specified that the Birth of Chief God and Conformist and Evolution of bubbles would Exceed the world limits. Exceed can mean many things and here the context is trying to say transcend. And the difference was compared to dimensionality.

I also left out some more information as this is only confusing for others. There is this Silver Sea Shogi example where Worlds fire dew is used as a Shogi piece and Magic bullet world was trying to use Bubbles world as bullets which should have been impossible if both are in the same dimensionality plane. But let's leave that apart. I hope the above explanation Clarifies why Bubble world and Silver Bubbles are not in the same dimensionality.

Small info: Chief Gods are already accepted as higher dimensional existence in the wiki.
The layers of hax will still remain the same, as a single silver bubble would be Low 1-C. But Ano's true key won't have the layers.

Thread Conclusion


This means, there is no object being larger than the 2-A structure while still remaining 2-A yourself
An infinity that contains another infinity does not mean the first one is strictly bigger. As we know, the set of rationals encompasses the set of integers (which is countable infinite) and the latter encompasses/contains the set of naturals as a subset (also infinite), but the three are still all the same size. None of them are uncountable. Subsets don't inherently mean smaller size, as said logic does not work when you are taking infinite size into account. As for brane cosmology, you'd need more than just that. Kandaquizorte qualifies because it actually specifies that it is smaller, instead of just being a conventional subset of the same cardinality. Subset of infinite sets is covered in set theory as well (it's literally a set). And this same logic would apply to MG since it's also about subsets of infinite cardinalities.
This illustrates some of the more unintuitive properties of sets with infinite elements: Namely, given a set X, it being a subset of another set Y does not imply that Y > X in terms of size. An example of this is how the set of all natural numbers contains both the odd numbers and even numbers, yet all of these sets in fact have the same number of elements. - tiering system FAQ
Low 1-C sounds fine if all of the qualifying factors are met, which they seem to be in this case. As said before, there is no such thing as being larger than a 2-A structure while still remaining 2-A yourself (Unless the verse establishes that this is possible somehow), so Chronos perceiving infinite timelines as so tiny she cannot perceive them fits that bill. ~ Stated by @Ultima_Reality in this thread evaluating other thread that has the same similarity.
Also, another note: This does not scale to the whole Silver Sea, only to Silver bubbles being 6D. So Anos will still have 99+ layers of hax.
The cosmology is still infinitely larger, and I will do the next CRT after silver bubbles 6D is accepted.

Results​


Note: Bold = Staff Opinion

Agree: 42 (2:40) @Gasfo @Ubdon (with 5D), @Wagy, @sen_ @Ottavio_Merluzzo, @Yohata, @Satoshi23, @Diablo_, @Accelerator, @GustiTalk12, @Tatsumi504 (with 5D), @Rendynoc0unter, @Shadow_Somnius, @Overlord_THE_END (with 5D), @ZinnaiYama (with 5D), @God900, @Caduz213, @EldemadeDityjon (with 6D), @YoPercy (with 5D), @Arzzz (with 5D), @Dereck03 (with 5D), @wwereymy235, @Kowalski, @Peak, @TheGreatJedi13 (with 5D), @Orioreeem, @ActuallySpaceMan (with 5D), @Sus, @DigiAnymore (with 5D), @NHTkenshin2 (with 5D), @Elizhaa with (5D), @Arnoldstone18 (with 5D), @Dog3352, @Samael24567, @NieferGoingCraaazy (with 5D), @Sacchan, @CosmologyLearner, @Alicred (with 5D), @Pain_to12 (agreed with 5D if 2-A is legit), @oberon (with 5D), @Daten_Naraku, @Pekarchan (with 5D)
Disagree: 7 (1:6) @Everything12 (with 6D; no reasons given), @Sergeant_Hypocrite (with both), @GreatIskandar14045 (with both, even with 2-A), @Tetrahedron1234, @NullVoid312 (with everything and no reasons given), @Nothingness2264 (his first message is in this OP with disagreement, no reasons given), @Pain_to12 (with 6D)
Neutral: 16 (2:14) @Ubdon (neutral with 6D), @Tatsumi504 (with 6D), @Overlord_THE_END (with 6D), @ZinnaiYama (with 6D), @YoPercy (with 6D), @Arzzz (with 6D), @Dereck03 (with 6D), @TheGreatJedi13 (with 6D), @ActuallySpaceMan (with 6D), @InfiniteDay, @Everything12 (with 5D), @Mr._Undetected, @DigiAnymore (with 6D), @NHTkenshin2 (with 6D), @Arnoldstone18 (with 6D), @NieferGoingCraaazy (with 6D), @Alicred (with 6D), @oberon (with 6D), @Pekarchan (with 6D)
 
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I agree
A 2-A structure (realm) being microcosm of a bigger world is obviously 5D
Edit : I also agree with ss
Since the space of each layer can countain infinite bubbles and this bubbles are 5D
The space should be at least 5D
When we add the dimension of time
It should be 6D
 
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I am pretty sure you can argue of 7D overall with Silver Sea having a different timeline and holding 5D Bubbles as snapshots inside of it.

Anyway agree with 5D upgrade for bubble world it's solid scale.
 
To Clarify things

1 Bubble world= Infinite sized black sky ( Azure sky of gods (countless realms)+ mortal world)

Where among countless realms
A single realm is bigger than 2A
 
Agree for 5D, Neutral on 6D. Layers of hax only remains the same when talking about 5D bubble.

Realistically only MEoCD, Venuzdonoa, True power Anos would scale to the silver sea
 
Nafta world would be 2-A only not bigger then it . LoT also isn't accepted as 2-A
Why 2A only? Also the fact all timelines exists inside the crystal world makes the realm which holding the timelines pretty bigger than 2A. Even if you don't agree on bigger than 2A there are countless realms+ infinite sized Black sky. 5D bubble is still solid.
 
I agree with 5D, the microcosm statement is there and it's infinite in quantity.
Bubble encompassing NAFTA realm (containing infinite timeline) and treat it as microcosm to the world and superior in size.

6D, unfortunately I have to stay neutral for now.
 
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