Major God of War clean up/Revisions

[Aetheric Pariah]

Greek Kratos profile is a mess. There are too many keys, and too many tiers making everything seem jumbled and cram packed, and very hard to read.
Kratos
I mean just look at it.

I have two proposals in an attempt to remedy this.

Spoiler: Keys

Greek Kratos has far too many keys on his profile, when there is no reason to have so many. I understand from a pure indexing Point of View to have a key for every game he's been in, but from a power perspective the only thing to really highlight is the jump in power from GoW 1, and GoW 3. It would go something like this.

Demigod Kratos: Comics/Ascension-GoW 1 all the way until he opens pandoras box

As the God of War: GoW 2 onward

Power of Hope: When he unlocks the power of Hope

This woulds cut kratos's keys in half, from 6 to 3. It would allow a more confined and composited version of the keys where from an indexing point of view everything would still be labeled, all his powers and abilities, resistances, ect. While drastically reducing the clutter on display. The new profile would go something like this:

Tier: At least 7-B, likely higher. At least High 3-A, likely Low 2-C with Gauntlet of Zeus | At least High 3-A, likely Low 2-C | At least High 3-A, likely Low 2-C

vs. how it looks now

Tier: At least 7-B, likely higher | At least 7-B, likely higher normally. At least High 3-A, likely Low 2-C to 2-C with Gauntlet of Zeus | At least 7-B, likely higher normally. At least High 3-A, likely Low 2-C to 2-C with Pandora's Box | At least High 3-A, likely Low 2-C to 2-C | At least High 3-A, likely Low 2-C to 2-C | At least High 3-A, likely Low 2-C to 2-C | At least High 3-A, likely Low 2-C to 2-C | At least High 3-A, likely Low 2-C to 2-C, possibly far higher

Spoiler: Tiers

If you didn't notice in the new proposed tiering, I removed the 2-C tier entirely. This was intentional. To put it bluntly, that is the second proposal, which is to axe the 2-C tier completely. Making ALL God of War profiles become At least High 3-A, likely Low 2-C.

The Likely 2-C tier comes almost exclusively from the 9 Realms in the Norse Pantheon, and them being separate Space-Times. I wish to shed some further light on this, and why this may not be the case.



As freya in-game states right here, the 9 realms all exist in the same physical space. According to the tiering system for the tier 2-C, which states:

2-C | Low Multiverse level: Characters who can significantly affect[2], create and/or destroy small multiverses which can be comprised of several separate space-time continuums ranging anywhere from two to a thousand, or equivalents.

Emphasis on the Space-Time part, with what freya said the 9 realms are not separate space-times via the VBW standards. The 9 realms exist in the same space, making is impossible for them to be separate space-times altogether. She even gives further context on this mere moments later, by saying the only thing separating the realms is the bifrost light of alfheim. They aren't separated by being completely different space-times, but only through the bifrost. An example I can think of is DC, where universes have the same location but dont interact via other mechanics like vibration, in this case the other mechanic would be the bifrost.



This is further reinforced in this Developer Interview, where Matt Sophos further reiterates that all the realms exist in the same physical space. He even goes on to say the realms are "dimensions on top of each other", and that the realm travel room existing in all the realms is solely because of them being in the same physical space+light of alfheim.

I know the realms have different time flows, and I don't know the assumption the wiki makes in regards to dimensions with different time flows=space-times, but in GoW's case we have a direct statement that these realms are not separated by being space-times, but by the light of alfheim, and that all of the realms exist in the same physical space.

Sandbox showcasing how the new profile would look.

 

[KLOL506]

Tier 2 stuff should absolutely not be touched upon right now, given that Glassman intends to make a revision for the tiers later.

But yeah, the Greek keys are a goddamn mess. They need to be cleaned up significantly to avoid clutter. But even then, most of the profiles are hilariously outdated, a lot of them not even having been updated to account for the tier changes to begin with and many missing crucial aspects like Helios lacking High 3-A range for lighting up the infinite-sized Underworld or Norse Kratos missing a slew of his Greek resistances which he should've had from the beginning. And the Valkyrie also being not properly updated to reflect this.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Tier 2 stuff should absolutely not be touched upon right now, given that Glassman intends to make a revision for the tiers later.

But yeah, the Greek keys are a goddamn mess. They need to be cleaned up significantly to avoid clutter. But even then, most of the profiles are hilariously outdated, a lot of them not even having been updated to account for the tier changes to begin with and many missing crucial aspects like Helios lacking High 3-A range for lighting up the infinite-sized Underworld or Norse Kratos missing a slew of his Greek resistances which he should've had from the beginning. And the Valkyrie also being not properly updated to reflect this.

His supposed revision has nothing to do with this one. He can still make his when he wishes to.

 

[KLOL506]

His supposed revision has nothing to do with this one. He can still make his when he wishes to.

Then I suggest also working on cleaning up the other profiles at the very least.

Hephaestus was not changed when the revisions took place.

Helios needs his range upgraded for obvious reasons.

I will look for more profiles that will need similar changes in the meantime.

 

[Darksmash]

I agree with the proposals

 

[Caspian883]

I agree with all of these

 

[KLOL506]

Persephone's profile should also be changed. She should be changed to "At least High 3-A, possibly Low 2-C", and her "Hypersonic+" and "Class K" ratings make no sense anymore given the feats we've gotten from GOW: Ascension and the like.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Then I suggest also working on cleaning up the other profiles at the very least.

Hephaestus was not changed when the revisions took place.

Helios needs his range upgraded for obvious reasons.

I will look for more profiles that will need similar changes in the meantime.

Just delete Hephaestus profile tbh. His profile isn't even linked on the God of War page. He's not relevant.

 

[KLOL506]

Persephone's profile should also be changed. She should be changed to "At least High 3-A, possibly Low 2-C", and her "Hypersonic+" and "Class K" ratings make no sense anymore given the feats we've gotten from GOW: Ascension and the like.

Not only this, Kratos's Chains of Olympus profile states:

"At least Sub-Relativistic+ (Can react to Persephone's blast)"

Except, this isn't true, in the first feat, Kratos is the one shooting the beam, the actual person who reacts to the light beam is Persephone, from here on it's just basically simple power-scaling. The second feat in the blog is bunk as it's just an explosion and not exactly quantifiable, hell, it's not even necessary.

What's worse is, the light used against Persephone is the Light of Dawn, which is powered by the Primordial Flame, and I don't think I need to tell y'all about that.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Agree as well

 

[KLOL506]

I suggest you also make the edits for the Speed, Pariah.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

I suggest you also make the edits for the Speed, Pariah.

Glass is leaving that for his CRT, this is just profile cleanup/tiering cleanup. Nothing to do with changing aspects of the profiles themselves.

 

[KLOL506]

Glass is leaving that for his CRT, this is just profile cleanup/tiering cleanup. Nothing to do with changing aspects of the profiles themselves.

Kratos is getting his keys reduced to 3, no? If so, that Sub-relativistic calc has no place on the profile anymore, not only that, Kratos did it with the Primordial Flame's power, and I don't think I need to tell you the Primordial Flame's rating.

For now, until Glass's CRT goes through, I just propose a "higher with the Gauntlet of Zeus" rating for speed.

Persephone needs to be High 3-A to Low 2-C tho, there is no normal 3-A in GOW.

 

[Therefir]

I agree, Kratos' profile has always been extremely difficult to read, and the attack potency section desperately needs to link the profiles Kratos is scaling from.

We can't just say he is Low 2-C with the Gauntlet for chaining the Titans, without actually linking the profiles of said Titants.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Kratos is getting his keys reduced to 3, no? If so, that Sub-relativistic calc has no place on the profile anymore, not only that, Kratos did it with the Primordial Flame's power, and I don't think I need to tell you the Primordial Flame's rating.

For now, until Glass's CRT goes through, I just propose a "higher with the Gauntlet of Zeus" rating for speed.

Persephone needs to be High 3-A to Low 2-C tho, there is no normal 3-A in GOW.

Kratos will have his demigod Speed. If he gets a speed amp of whatever means with the gauntlet, that's going to be only with the gauntlet obviously.

 

[KLOL506]

We can't just say he is Low 2-C with the Gauntlet for chaining the Titans, without actually linking the profiles of said Titants.

That should be easy. The references are already there for everyone to see. Just gotta figure out how to properly merge them all without ******* up the references.

 

[JED]

Looks good to me. I agree.

 

[Planck69]

Agree with the reorganisation of the keys.
Neutral on the 2-C change. There said to exists in the same physical space but both the novel and guide book call them alternate dimensions or planes of existence so I'm not too sure on that.

Regardless, I'd rather not touch it at all if there's a larger revision regarding that being planned.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Agree with the reorganisation of the keys.
Neutral on the 2-C change. There said to exists in the same physical space but both the novel and guide book call them alternate dimensions or planes of existence so I'm not too sure on that.

Regardless, I'd rather not touch it at all if there's a larger revision regarding that being planned.

The revision is attempting to make kratos and co. straight up 2-C with what's on the wiki right now, but has no correlation to this CRT or what is presented. If the CRT wants to address that when it comes that's fine, but it shouldn't halt this one when it's not connected at all.

The existing in the same physical space is very clear cut, in the same sentence freya says they are mirror dimensions separated only by the light. The WoG even calls them dimensions on top of each other, while at the same time saying they still exist in the same physical space. They exist in the same space, idk how the wiki defines this with dimensions, but it's not a contradiction. They are dimensions in the same space, not dimensions that are separate space-times. We should move forward with this in mind, and review the tiering accordingly with this knowledge.

 

[Planck69]

Pocket dimensions are typically isolated spaces either bound by the same timestream or fully isolated space-time continuums as I understand it. Else they wouldn't really be pocket dimensions and just regions of space.

I'll still stay neutral on that and wait for someone more informed to speak for making a decision on it though.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I personally agree with the OP, but I'd wait for the upcoming tier revisions perhaps.

 

[KLOL506]

Agree with the reorganisation of the keys.
Neutral on the 2-C change. There said to exists in the same physical space but both the novel and guide book call them alternate dimensions or planes of existence so I'm not too sure on that.

Regardless, I'd rather not touch it at all if there's a larger revision regarding that being planned.

Like I said, leave it for Glass's upcoming CRT. This has nothing to do with that. This thread is all about fixing up Kratos's keys.

Norse Kratos should preferably remain untouched. He's badly outdated enough as is.

 

[Hellbeast]

Is Pariah making downgrades for God of War?
I'm neutral but leaning to agreement on the nature of the Nine Realms and I do agree Kratos needs less keys (I planned something similar)

I would however suggest a separate key for GOWIII Kratos tho; man drained power from Zeus and later grew even stronger by devouring Hades' soul.

EDIT: on the subject of the Realms I just remembered; didn't the Jotnar reach Jotunheim by using a boat to surf the blood of Ymir? Obviously I don't think nromal boats would traverse these but that could be something tbh. I also recall vaguely an idea that the realms are direct physical reflections of each other but that's something I gotta find

 

[KLOL506]

Is Pariah making downgrades for God of War?

You would be surprised at the copium he sniffs every day, enough to put both me and Glass to shame.

I would however suggest a separate key for GOWIII Kratos tho; man drained power from Zeus and later grew even stronger by devouring Hades' soul.

Wouldn't serve any purpose. It's basically just Kratos with the same soul-succ abilities with a greater level of importance on the scaling chain and there's no higher feats or abilities to show for it. Simply put, it's peak redundancy.

EDIT: on the subject of the Realms I just remembered; didn't the Jotnar reach Jotunheim by using a boat to surf the blood of Ymir? Obviously I don't think nromal boats would traverse these but that could be something tbh. I also recall vaguely an idea that the realms are direct physical reflections of each other but that's something I gotta find

Yeah uh... let's not go there just yet. Like I said, Glass has plans.

 

[Hellbeast]

You would be surprised at the copium he sniffs every day, enough to put both me and Glass to shame.

I need context

Wouldn't serve any purpose. It's basically just Kratos with the same soul-succ abilities with a greater level of importance on the scaling chain and there's no higher feats or abilities to show for it. Simply put, it's peak redundancy.

1) He has tons of new hax from GOWIII that he doesn't possess in the first two games
2) His higher feats ARE his performance against Zeus
3) It's still a canonical increase in power

Yeah uh... let's not go there just yet. Like I said, Glass has plans.

Makes sense; do you know anything about those?

 

[KLOL506]

I need context

Mostly related to upgrades and downgrades. Poor guy loathes what Tier 2 as a whole has become on this site (Who wouldn't, given the absolute shitshow that we had with Dragon Ball in the last few weeks), that and the fact that we're about to have another field day with another big-ass Tier 2 CRT as a whole that affects everything on this site.

1) He has tons of new hax from GOWIII that he doesn't possess in the first two games

Like?

2) His higher feats ARE his performance against Zeus

Things that he did in the end of GOW2, eventually levelling out in GOW3

3) It's still a canonical increase in power

Not big enough of an increase tho

Makes sense; do you know anything about those?

Nah, not really, nothing outside of the current blogs we're using RN.

 

[Planck69]

1) He has tons of new hax from GOWIII that he doesn't possess in the first two games

Outside of Power of Hope, I can't think of anything noteworthy he got that he didn't already have in a different form in prior games. Though, you are welcome to jog my memory.

2) His higher feats ARE his performance against Zeus
3) It's still a canonical increase in power

Wasn't he already on par with Zeus by the end of II? I get that he increased in strength what with the new weapons and Hades soul but it doesn't seem too drastic to me.

 

[KLOL506]

Outside of Power of Hope, I can't think of anything noteworthy he got that he didn't already have in a different form in prior games. Though, you are welcome to jog my memory.

Wasn't he already on par with Zeus by the end of II? I get that he increased in strength what with the new weapons and Hades soul but it doesn't seem too drastic to me.

I agree with Planck here.

 

[Stefano4444]

Neutral for axe the 2-C for now, but the rest make sense.

Also, are we sure that 2-C only come from Norse Pantheon? I remember that even Greek Pantheon had Low 2-C and 2-C statements/feats too.

 

[KLOL506]

Neutral for axe the 2-C for now, but the rest make sense.

We'll tackle that later when Glass makes the CRT.

Also, are we sure that 2-C only come from Norse Pantheon? I remember that even Greek Pantheon had Low 2-C and 2-C statements too.

But to answer this, yeah, Norse isn't the only side that has its fair share of 2-C, Greek Pantheon has 2-C statements too. Enough to rival Norse Pantheon's significance for 2-C feats in the grand scheme of things. But like I said, wait for Glass's CRT.

 

[Planck69]

Neutral for axe the 2-C for now, but the rest make sense.

Also, are we sure that 2-C only come from Norse Pantheon? I remember that even Greek Pantheon had Low 2-C and 2-C statements/feats too.

Yeah, the Greek Pantheon has Morpheus dream realm and Nyx's dimension being mirrors of the regular universe with different time flows IIRC.

Also, somewhat unrelated but do we accept Ares pocket dimension as having actual stars and the like? If we do then shouldn't their range be higher? Doesn't need to be tackled here or anything but just curious.

 

[Stefano4444]

Also, it is unrelated to this thread, but shouldn't the same be done with Dante? He does too have a lot of Keys that are potentially unnecessary.

 

[KLOL506]

Also, it is unrelated to this thread, but shouldn't the same be done with Dante? He does too have a lot of Keys that are potentially unnecessary.

Nah, Dante is fine as is. His keys always keep adding a slew of new abilities and transformations alongside brand new weapons and armory, not to mention the steep upgrades and physiology changes that come with it. Plus each key comes with a stark change in Dante's personality.

 

[KLOL506]

Yeah, the Greek Pantheon has Morpheus dream realm and Nyx's dimension being mirrors of the regular universe with different time flows IIRC.

Also, somewhat unrelated but do we accept Ares pocket dimension as having actual stars and the like? If we do then shouldn't their range be higher? Doesn't need to be tackled here or anything but just curious.

Helios's "Kilometers to Planetary" range is already horrendously wrong as is.

 

[Hellbeast]

Outside of Power of Hope, I can't think of anything noteworthy he got that he didn't already have in a different form in prior games. Though, you are welcome to jog my memory.

He gets access to tons of stuff such as the Nemesis Whip, Cestus and a ton of new magical abilities linked to them such as the Exile summons and a ton of his resistances are from there

Wasn't he already on par with Zeus by the end of II? I get that he increased in strength what with the new weapons and Hades soul but it doesn't seem too drastic to me.

Yes but no
He does injure Zeus but the novelisation implies it’s because of the BoO draining life and power From Zeus with each strike, his internal monologue implies Zeus could well kill him if not careful here and Zeus as a whole seems less all out then GOWIII

This is also ignoring Kratos playing into Zeus’ own arrogance by taunting him and later feigning surrender when Zeus overwhelms him at the end. Compare that performance with them going evenly at it in the next game’s climax

Late where I am but if you want I can provide some scans and links later?

 

[Hellbeast]

Yeah, the Greek Pantheon has Morpheus dream realm and Nyx's dimension being mirrors of the regular universe with different time flows IIRC.

In fairness it’s only Morpheus’ realm that has that statement; Nyx’s is just a mirror of the sky

I am curious on the 2-C tho; yes there’s the Pillar as we accept it and Hyperion piercing the veil but isn’t there something about Morpheus?

Also, somewhat unrelated but do we accept Ares pocket dimension as having actual stars and the like? If we do then shouldn't their range be higher? Doesn't need to be tackled here or anything but just curious.

We seem to but I’m not sure if we accept him creating that dimension or simply bfring us to it

 

[Stefano4444]

Nah, Dante is fine as is. His keys always keep adding a slew of new abilities and transformations alongside brand new weapons and armory

The same happen with Kratos, each new game he get new weapons and magic.

 

[KLOL506]

In fairness it’s only Morpheus’ realm that has that statement; Nyx’s is just a mirror of the sky

Pretty sure Nyx's dimension was outright confirmed to merely be a carbon copy of our universe with its own moon and stuff.

I am curious on the 2-C tho; yes there’s the Pillar as we accept it and Hyperion piercing the veil but isn’t there something about Morpheus?

Yep. Morpheus threatened to merge both his dream realm and the mortal Greek world, as Temple of Helios says. But there's prolly some more feats that Glass has found in store.

We seem to but I’m not sure if we accept him creating that dimension or simply bfring us to it

The Ares dimension feat is honestly inconsequential to the other feats down the line. But it does prove that Ares knew significantly enough about the cosmos.

 

[KLOL506]

The same happen with Kratos, each new game he get new weapons and magic.

He doesn't have stark changes in personality or physiology tho. Dante literally jumps hierarchies by sitting on his ass all day long, though this had to come at a hefty cost.

Kratos literally only gets one jump from his demigod self to a full-fledged God self, after which the only new things he gains are resistances due to his true God heritage, any new offensive abilities are purely from weapons he obtains from others. After that there's the Power of Hope, which he literally seppukku'd out of himself.

Dante on the other hand, had to change his name to unleash his half-demon self, then had to be stabbed by Rebellion to unlock his Devil Trigger, then had to get an amp in Peak of Combat, after which he got another physiology boost by unlocking his dad's sword, then unlocks a secret transformation called Majin after which he no-scoped Argosax, after which he lazed off for 10 more years minus DMC4, and then in DMC5 after getting his ass kicked by Urizen Dante finally ganked Rebellion and his dad's sword into himself to unlock his true form- SIN DEVIL TRIGGER.

 

[Planck69]

In fairness it’s only Morpheus’ realm that has that statement; Nyx’s is just a mirror of the sky

Pretty sure it was stated to be a mirror of the real world. I'll have to check later.

I am curious on the 2-C tho; yes there’s the Pillar as we accept it and Hyperion piercing the veil but isn’t there something about Morpheus?

Him merging his realm and the real world or something along those lines.

We seem to but I’m not sure if we accept him creating that dimension or simply bfring us to it

It makes more sense to me that he made it as opposed to it just existing for whatever reason. And I think the novel says something along this line as well but I'm not sure.

The Ares dimension feat is honestly inconsequential to the other feats down the line. But it does prove that Ares knew significantly enough about the cosmos.

It would honestly boost range tremendously if it's used actually, even if it doesn't matter for AP