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Might as well do this while the profiles are still being edited.

Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE​



Before I begin this section, keep in mind that I am NOT trying to suggest Megami Tensei is "canon" to Fire Emblem, I cannot stress this enough. This is merely supporting evidence of Tier 1 that could make the rating less controversial to the verse.

Currently, we have characters from Tokyo Mirage Sessions such as Itsuki rated as Low 1-C. Said characters also appear in Fire Emblem Heroes, and can trade blows with the Heroes. Of course, this doesn't mean much by itself as like I said earlier, this goes against the site's crossover rules. However, it is a good supporting feat for the main Low 1-C feat I will go over next.

The Realm of Dreams​



The Realm of Dreams is, as the name suggests, a world created by dreams.

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The Realm of Dreams is also stated to have it's own flow of time.

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This clearly shows that the Realm of Dreams is a separate world(s) that has it's own flow of time, ergo it is a Tier 2 structure. Though, honestly, this is just to provide context for the feat, as the Realm of Dreams is already accepted as being 2-A. Of course, this is nowhere near Tier 1 by itself, so I will go onto explain the different layers the Realm of Dreams has.

The Realm of Fantasy​



The Realm of Dreams has several layers, one of which is the Realm of Fantasy, the realm beneath the Realm of Dreams. Or as Peony describes it, it is the dream within the dream. Essentially, when one dreams in the Realm of Dreams, they end up in the Realm of Fantasy.

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As seen here, the relationship between the Realm of Fantasy and Realm of Dreams is that the former is just a dream to the latter. In addition, it is described as being a "dream within a dream", and a realm "beneath" the other realm. This is a Reality/Fiction difference between the two realms, as the former is just a dream to the latter, ie, a lower level of existence.

We have established here that there exist layers within the Realm of Dreams. While this by itself is still just Tier 2, the next part will explain that their is a layer above the Realm of Dreams.

Kiran's Dream​



After killing Freyr, the Order of Heroes wake up from the Realm of Dreams. However, they actually did not wake up into the real world. Instead, they woke up into another dream.

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As we established earlier, there is a reality fiction difference between the Realm of Fantasy, and the Realm of Dreams. That same relationship exists here, as the Realm of Dreams is just a dream to Kiran's Dream, the former of which is a Tier 2 structure. This is essentially the text-book definition of Low 1-C, as Kiran's Dream transcends the Realm of Dreams, a Tier 2 structure.

Though, this isn't a conventional dream. As Freyja states it, due to Kiran's unique existence, their dream is also a special kind of dream.

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The reason I bring this up is to show that the Realm of Dreams is still the "main" setting of the cosmology, as most people who dream just end up in the Realm of Dreams. Kiran's Dream is just a special case, where a layer above the Realm of Dreams can exist. I want to prevent any confusion relating to the Realm of Dreams not being the "main" setting of the cosmology, and therefore not Tier 2. This also prevents any ordinary dream worlds from being scaled to Low 1-C, but I will go over scaling in the next section.

Also, the Realm of Dreams is not a realm below the Real World, but rather a separate plane of existence (It's referred to as Ljósálfheimr here), so It's not Tier 11.

Who This Scales To + New Keys​



Right away, this would scale to characters on Freyja's level and up, as even without Freyr's power, she can control half of the Realm of Dreams. So right away that includes a Book IV+ Alfonse, Sharena, Anna, Kiran, Veronica, Bruno, and Fjorm (In terms of our current character profiles).

As mentioned previously, since Kiran's Dream is a special kind of dream, normal dream worlds aren't Low 1-C, as most dream worlds are present within the Realm of Dreams, and not Kiran Dream. So no Low 1-C Tempest, or Azura.

Also, an argument could be made that it starts from Surtr's level. The reason being is that he is capable of destroying everything in the Nine Realms, including the Realm of Dreams.

The issue with this is that Kiran's Dream didn't exist up until the events of Book IV, so even if Surtr could destroy everything, it is unknown if he would be able to destroy Kiran's Dream as well. However, as it is prophesized in lore that the flames of Múspell (ie, Ragnarök) will eventually destroy everything, it would be odd if it wouldn't have been able to destroy Kiran's Dream World. So everyone from Surtr and up, but below Freyja should be given a "possibly Low 1-C" rating.

To properly list the ratings, we will need new keys for the characters, as the characters will only be Low 1-C post Book II. To give you an idea of what these keys would look like, here is Alfonse's new profile.

TL;DR​




The realm has three layers, The Realm of Fantasy, The Realm of Dreams, and Kiran's Dream. The Realm of Fantasy being the lowest layer, and Kiran's Dream being the highest.

The Realm of Fantasy is viewed as a dream to The Realm of Dreams, and is stated to be the realm beneath, and embedded within the Realm of Dreams, which qualifies for R/F. This establishes a R/F relationship for the layers.

The Realm of Dreams is a Tier 2 Structure, as it exists as a parallel world to the "main" cosmology (ie, the Real World), rather than existing beneath it.

Kiran's Dream views the Realm of Dreams, a Tier 2 structure, as a dream, making it Tier 1.

This doesn't scale to normal dream worlds, due to Kiran's dream in particular being stated to be a special kind of dream. So people above Surtr, but below Freyja will be "possibly Low 1-C", but people on Freyja's level will be straight Low 1-C.

Vote Count​



Agree: Elizhaa, Bernkastelll, Zencha9, CosmicWreck, XXKINGXX69, Tired_Author_21, lukewoesal007, Maverick_Zero_X

Neutral: Vietthai96 (Leaning towards disagree), Jibz, Luckyfun (Leaning towards agree), Ultra_instinct_issei, Planck69 (Leaning towards agree), DarkDragonMedeus, Colonel_Krukov (Says what is being suggested seems okay), Masterlight

Disagree:
 
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What's the relationship between this dream world and the real world? If the R/F transcendence acts as such, wouldn't the real world be above it?
 
The Dream world is an alternate universe/plane from the real world, and not a realm below the real world.
 
Wait, if the dreams are below the main cosmology, wouldn't they just be tier 11? Apparently we don't rate a main cosmology seeing another as fiction for the purposes of tier 1 regardless of statements to avoid inflating stats on the site, or so Ultima told me.
 
Neutral, leaning toward disagree. Dream in a dream doesn't always mean transcended or R>F different. The words "beneath" doesn't mean much in this case, due to not actually show totally trancended. The reason for most of this is only based on a dream inside a dream, that dream is 4D thus the "higher" layer dream must be 5D. But in this case i can also intepreting this as Immersion
 
I’m pretty sure viewing a structure as a dream does count as a reality fiction difference on this wiki. I do recall Ultima saying that, or at least something similar when I asked him over discord. The words “beneath” do indicate a lower plane of existence, as it is referring to a realm that is just a dream to the former. It being immersion would at most, only really apply to the relationship between The Realm of Dreams and The Realm of Fantasy, since the RoD is the “main cosmology” and to it, the RoF is just a dream. However, this is a case where a layer can exist above the Realm of Dreams, ie, again, the “main cosmology.” That would still be viewing a 4D structure as a fictional structure.
 
So, what you are suggesting is, fantasy world > dream world > physical world?
The Real world is a completely different realm, and not connected to the Realm of Dreams.

The layers of the dream world is like this:
Kiran’s Dream (5D)> Realm of Dreams (4D)> Realm of Fantasy (3D)

The Real World is it’s own separate realm, and not part of the layers.
 
So if Dream realm sees Fantasy World as mere fiction - in this case dream - that would make the former 5-D. And then Koran's dream 6-D.

Anyway, I have some questions before voicing my opinion. I know the physical world is in a different realm, but what's its connection to the fantasy world? Is it a separate universe in the multiverse or...?
 
So if Dream realm sees Fantasy World as mere fiction - in this case dream - that would make the former 5-D. And then Koran's dream 6-D.
That wouldn't be the case actually. Bobsican mentioned this earlier in the thread, but Ultima said that structures the main setting sees as fiction doesn't automatically mean that its Tier 1, it usually means that the stuff that is seen as fiction to the main setting is lower dimensional. In this case the Realm of Dreams is the main setting, and the Realm of Fantasy is seen as fiction to the former, and therefore lower dimensional.
Anyway, I have some questions before voicing my opinion. I know the physical world is in a different realm, but what's its connection to the fantasy world? Is it a separate universe in the multiverse or...?
It's a separate multiverse technically, but yea. When one dreams, their conscience travels to the Realm of Dreams.
 
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It would probably be best to get more evaluating staffs' inputs since there doesn't seem to be a consensus there yet.
 
Ultima said that structures the main setting sees as fiction doesn't automatically mean that its Tier 1, it usually means that the stuff that is seen as fiction to the main setting is lower dimensional. In this case the Realm of Dreams is the main setting, and the Realm of Fantasy is seen as fiction to the former, and therefore lower dimensional.
Depends from verse to verse context, most of the time, its tier 1.

Anyway, why is the Fantasy realm considered a 3-D structure and the Dream Realm a 4-D structure? That was never explained. And what context - from the verse - makes this supposedly R>F difference not tier 1?
 
Depends from verse to verse context, most of the time, its tier 1.

Anyway, why is the Fantasy realm considered a 3-D structure and the Dream Realm a 4-D structure? That was never explained. And what context - from the verse - makes this supposedly R>F difference not tier 1?
It's because the Realm of Dreams is the main setting, and there aren't any statements (to my knowledge) that indicate it exists on some higher plane of existence.

Layers existing below the main setting doesn't make it tier 1 without further context, as it would lead to inflated stats where a bunch of verses become tier 1, as many verses have stuff like dream worlds, which they view as fiction.
 
Yes, I know. Right, but so why is Kiran's dream considered infinitely superior with R>F when the other isn't?
 
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