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I don’t believe these points have been made before, so I’ll be the one laying them out it seems.

The whole CRT be split into two unrelated arguments, one for the Imaginary Singularity and the other for HooH:

To preface this part, I’d basically recommend you preemptively read this scan and all the scans in the “Cocoon of Finality” and “Imaginary Singularity” section of the linked blog. Don’t mind anything else, just look at the images because that’s the only things I’ll be using for this scaling.

If you did read them, then the following points will be made clear:

  1. The Imaginary Singularity lacks all dimensional information.
  2. It does not exist in real space (instead, in Imaginary Space), so it corresponds to no specific spatial coordinate in corporeal space. (It is not literally a 0-dimensional point.)
  3. As it is Imaginary, it cannot be ordered in size in any meaningful way. That is, we can say that 1 < 2 in the set of Real Numbers, but no such principle applies for Imaginary Space, meaning quantitive distinction is delimited within here.
  4. All Real Space flows from the Imaginary Singularity, meaning it itself cannot be qualified as a spatial object, given also the fact that it does not even exist as a coordinate in Real Space to begin with.
  5. It is simultaneously connected to every spatial dimension.
  6. EDIT: Imaginary Space is also the place where the essences of all things in the Universe exist and where all eventually converge into unity.
So, how does this correlate to scaling?

Well, pretty simply, when any N-amount of space relates back to the Singularity, its quantitative size becomes undifferentiated. That is, because the Singularity encompasses and precedes space and dimensions—whilst itself not being qualified by such properties or quantity itself—there is no additional effort nor is there any addition in it when it relates back to any spatial dimensions.

The Imaginary Singularity as it corresponds to 3-dimensional space is quantitatively and qualitatively identical to it as it corresponds to 11-dimensional space. So it can be said that the power set of R adds no information to the Singularity. And because all tiers up to Low 1-A is the incremental repetition of this process, then no dimensional gap will ever differentiate itself from the Singularity (because any Set times 0 is still 0).

And to re-iterate the following:
Compared to the Real Space which has meaning, the various attributes of Imaginary Space
are meaningless to human common sense.
Just like real numbers can be ordered in size, imaginary numbers cannot. Everything that exists in Imaginary Space, if not properly "abstracted" or "projected*, will exceed beyond the scope of human rationality.
As all Real Objects, when un-projected into Imaginary ones, can no longer be deemed bigger than one-another, it means that quantitative differentiation is dissolved when speaking about Imaginary Space. This pretty much hits the nail in the coffin in relation to the above points.

I.e: All possible quantitative increases can never encapsulate the Imaginary Singularity.

So, the Cocoon (Kiana), who is the Singularity, will be upgraded to Low 1-A. Alongside this, HooH, who governs the entire verse will get upgraded as well. (Yog’s avatar too)

This second part will be dedicated wholly towards the nature of the Aeon of Equilibrium, HooH.

  1. Simply put, HooH has dissolved themselves into the “web of logic” behind everything in honkai.
  2. And from this fundamental stance, HooH divides all concepts into dualities, particularly pertaining to Being and Non-Being (that is, IX). Within HooH, there is both P and not-P as undifferentiated.
  3. It itself, is split into two, yet remains wholly joined together as both it’s own existence and its own negation. And it observes everything whilst being unobserved by anything.
  4. If you were to read the dialogue here, you’d realize that as all notions are qualified through HooH, they remain “zero-sum” as both it’s actualization and it’s negation similarly follow from him. As such, there is never an “increase”.
What follows from here then?

Well, HooH himself cannot the be qualified by any one single concept, as it precedes their very division and differentiation. Rather, HooH is what qualifies everything, including to its Imaginary essence (as it governs Imaginary Energy). And because all things depend on HooH for differentiation between P and not-P, it cannot be that any arbitrary amount of space could have any differentiation sans HooH. It couldn’t possibly have even been qualified for its own negation. This level of undifferentiation is basically the standard for 1-A-adjacent tiers.

Now as the web of logic governs division and unity up to a logical sense, and if my explanation above was clear enough (hopefully), then 1-A has become obvious. Especially considering that HooH cannot be interacted with.

Now, I will say, that 1-A can still have its qualms—particularly with the fact that HooH still somewhat functions with the Path System. Sure, unlike every other Aeon, HooH encompasses all concepts and the like, but it is still uncertain whether or not they are wholly detached from Imaginary itself. If this “Web of Logic” is deemed prior to the Imaginary, then I think 1-A is feasible (after all, HooH dissolved into it), but if it shares a sort of co-dependent relationship with it (which is what I would argue for consistency’s sake, especially since we know very little about this), then I believe Low 1-A is still fine as a tier.

Conclusions:

Cocoon of Finality/Kiana Kaslana — Low 1-A
HooH — Low 1-A
Yog’s avatar — Low 1-A
EDIT:

Aeons in general — Low 1-A (REASONING HERE)


Mod Votes:
  • Reiner04 (Agree)
  • Oblivion_Of_The_Endless (Agree)
  • Vietthai96 (Agree with Possibly Low 1-A)
  • Emirp sumitpo (Disagree)
  • Qawsedf (Disagree)
 
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(Nobody else should scale to these, aside from probably Terminus [Aeon of Finality], but they don’t have a profile here, so eh.)
The elephant in the room being addressed after 3 years?! About the web of logic one, I think HooH should be prior as its not only one of the oldest Aeons, but there's this


This explains that Aeons are beings that exercise the extremes of a singular concept, like Nous with the concept of Erudition and so on, if HooH isn't prior to this, logically Equilibrium would push the universe into imbalance, but it does the opposite

There's this too, but idk how relevant this would be lol
 
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So HooH > all other Aeons, even though they need four other Aeons to take down Tayzzronth?”
To be clear, we didn't know what the rest of the Aeons even do against Tayzzyronth other than the obvious Oroboros vs Tayzzyronth and Qlipoth vs Tayzzyronth in the end.

Granted, HooH as the web of logic of the Imaginary Tree becomes the sole reason why the Imaginary even functions in the first place.
 
To be clear, we didn't know what the rest of the Aeons even do against Tayzzyronth other than the obvious Oroboros vs Tayzzyronth and Qlipoth vs Tayzzyronth in the end.

Granted, HooH as the web of logic of the Imaginary Tree becomes the sole reason why the Imaginary even functions in the first place.
With the coordinated efforts of the Aeons of Equilibrium, Preservation, Trailblaze, Elation, and Harmony, Tayzzyronth the Aeon of Propagation fell across the cosmos
Honestly, I don’t think HooH is superior to the other Aeons, or at least not to Tazzyronth.
 
The elephant in the room being addressed after 3 years?! About the web of logic one, I think HooH should be prior as its not only one of the oldest Aeons, but there's this description

There's this too, but idk how relevant this would be lol
This just shows that normal Aeons only commit to singular concepts but HooH encompasses all. Unfortunately, such an interpretation can fit either the 1-A or Low 1-A interpretation.

So HooH > all other Aeons, even though they need four other Aeons to take down Tayzzronth?”
Can you show me where it’s stated HooH needed other Aeons to kill Tazzy? It surely can’t be that the being who control duality also controls how duality flows, no?

HooH only lends itself to balance, if it picked a side, it wouldn’t be HooH lol. If it’s stated multiple times that everything works because of HooH, then wouldn’t all opposition (lel) be the work of HooH?
 
Will this affect the smurf potency of Imaginary Energy and/or Honkai energy?
 
This just shows that normal Aeons only commit to singular concepts but HooH encompasses all. Unfortunately, such an interpretation can fit either the 1-A or Low 1-A interpretation.

Can you show me where it’s stated HooH needed other Aeons to kill Tazzy? It surely can’t be that the being who control duality also controls how duality flows, no?

HooH only lends itself to balance, if it picked a side, it wouldn’t be HooH lol. If it’s stated multiple times that everything works because of HooH, then wouldn’t all opposition (lel) be the work of HooH?
Well, alright then. About Tazzy one, basically Ena just made the Aeons team up against Tazzy, it was never stated HooH needed other Aeons to kill Tazzy. There's zero statement about this in the entire Swarm Disaster but HooH genuinely does nothing in the Swarm Disaster fight (The blue links below are when the Equilibrium is mentioned), it could also be argued that Swarm Disaster happened because of Equilibrium in the first place lol iirc


Will this affect the smurf potency of Imaginary Energy and/or Honkai energy?
No, they're still 1-B
 
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Anyways I’ma parrot this for the second time. Ya’ll behave yourselves until I wake up
yes king
edit: if IMG singularity also Makes img space low 1-A, i believe true forms of Aeons can also scale there if there isnt any issue regarding that
HooH would be above them so its still low 1-A right? their avatars can be High 1-C or whatever tier physcal universe becomes after this crt
 
yes king
edit: if IMG singularity also Makes img space low 1-A, i believe true forms of Aeons can also scale there if there isnt any issue regarding that
HooH would be above them so its still low 1-A right? their avatars can be High 1-C or whatever tier physcal universe becomes after this crt
Not sure, the true forms could probably be High 1-B+ but like the entire point of the thread was to make CoF, Equilibrium and Terminus on the same level whilst Aeons are below them. The whole point here is to make those who transcends the "Imaginary" to be tiered as that
 
Can you show me where it’s stated HooH needed other Aeons to kill Tazzy? It surely can’t be that the being who control duality also controls how duality flows, no?

HooH only lends itself to balance, if it picked a side, it wouldn’t be HooH lol. If it’s stated multiple times that everything works because of HooH, then wouldn’t all opposition (lel) be the work of HooH?
Then why specify that HooH helped the aeon coalition to take down tayzzyronth? It’s kinda redundant if it controls all aeons.

Matter of fact wouldn’t they be able to tell that tayzzyronth was also the work of HooH, if they can perceive HooH helping against propagation? Also wasn’t it stated that tayzzyronth was disrupting the order of the universe? So hooh helped itself to disrupt itself?

Simulated Universe, Swarm Disaster, Chapters: The Hunt I
“With The Hunt’s instinct, you find the page with the answer — it is the expansion of concepts! THEIR descendants have gobbled up too much food... THEY have disrupted the Order of the universe... THEY have threatened the Equilibrium of the universe... THEY have blocked the way of the Trailblaze...”
 
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Well, alright then. About Tazzy one, basically Ena just made the Aeons team up against Tazzy, it was never stated HooH needed other Aeons to kill Tazzy. There's zero statement about this in the entire Swarm Disaster but HooH genuinely does nothing in the Swarm Disaster fight (The blue links below are when the Equilibrium is mentioned), it could also be argued that Swarm Disaster happened because of Equilibrium in the first place lol iirc
HooH does take action, but the Simulated Universe can’t fully project everything they do.

The fact that their traces only appear when the scales of balance tip suggests that they don’t directly control the other Aeons. Instead, they subtly influence events to guide outcomes toward what they desire.

Given this, it’s hard to argue that HooH is inherently superior to the other Aeons.
 
Can you show me where it’s stated HooH needed other Aeons to kill Tazzy? It surely can’t be that the being who control duality also controls how duality flows, no?

HooH only lends itself to balance, if it picked a side, it wouldn’t be HooH lol. If it’s stated multiple times that everything works because of HooH, then wouldn’t all opposition (lel) be the work of HooH?
Well, alright then. About Tazzy one, basically Ena just made the Aeons team up against Tazzy, it was never stated HooH needed other Aeons to kill Tazzy. There's zero statement about this in the entire Swarm Disaster but HooH genuinely does nothing in the Swarm Disaster fight (The blue links below are when the Equilibrium is mentioned), it could also be argued that Swarm Disaster happened because of Equilibrium in the first place lol iirc
Tayzzyronth was a threat to HooH
 
Ok I'm back, uh, to respond to all of that; "Order" and "Equilibrium" isn't meant to be qualified as HooH themselves there but rather like every other time "Balance" is mentioned in relation to HooH, that is, that Tazzy threatened the zero-sum of the universe by extremization of it's concepts. But both this capability to be extreme and the act of becoming non-extreme are both acts of HooH (like how HooH separating and merging itself is also paradoxically an act of itself).

All of this is explained in the earlier scans. To argue your point is to effectively claim some of my scans give away narratively untrustworthy statements, whereas the interpretation I speak off above requires not.
 
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Ok I'm back, uh, to respond to all of that; "Order" and "Equilibrium" isn't meant to be qualified as HooH themselves there but rather like every other time "Balance" is mentioned in relation to HooH, that is, that Tazzy threatened the zero-sum of the universe by extremization of it's concepts. But both this capability to be extreme and the act of becoming non-extreme are both acts of HooH (like how HooH separating and merging itself is also paradoxically an act of itself).

All of this is explained in the earlier scans. To argue your point is to effectively claim some of my scans give away narratively untrustworthy statements, whereas the interpretation I speak off above requires neither.
so Hooh was actively helping the aeon coalition fight itself? And both sides were HooH all along
 
So, every time the “balance” is tipped, is it because they did a bad job?
Not appropriate to call it a “bad job”, it’s just how Duality works in general. HooH is roughly based on the Yin and Yang wherein “Good contains Bad and Bad contains Good”.

If everything was “all-good” then the world wouldn’t be dual or “zero-sum”; it would be positive instead. The balance between Being and Non-Being is quite literally the entire point of HooH.

HooH himself exists in a two where he is both himself and his absolute opposite.
 
“Wait so Duality includes both the positive and the negative?”
Please keep your snark to yourself.

But No it’s pretty clearly portrayed that HooH is not Superior to the other aeons. The game going out of its way to tell you tayzzy threatened the equilibrium, but leave out the fact this action was also the equilibrium? Tell you HooH aided order in the fight against the propagation, but leave out the fact it was also HooH’s machinations? Tell you HooH’s duties have grown since the Order has faded, so it is wasn’t doing it before? But simultaneously was? Why say it like that then? HooH has nothing in the game for us to assume it’s superior to every other aeon. Every time it mentions HooH doing something that goes against your argument, just ignore it, it’s not really HooH bro. Matter of fact why did it intervene during Nous’s moment if it was nous itself? It already ordained ruperts death, why do more?
 
Please keep your snark to yourself.

But No it’s pretty clearly portrayed that HooH is not Superior to the other aeons. The game going out of its way to tell you tayzzy threatened the equilibrium, but leave out the fact this action was also the equilibrium? Tell you HooH aided order in the fight against the propagation, but leave out the fact it was also HooH’s machinations? Tell you HooH’s duties have grown since the Order has faded, so it is wasn’t doing it before? But simultaneously was? HooH has nothing in the game for us to assume it’s superior to every other aeon. Every time it mentions HooH doing something that goes against your argument, just ignore it, it’s not really HooH bro.
I already explained what HooH's substantiality entails and how this gets explained.

So I ask you this: if HooH splits all beings into a Polarity, and supposedly itself as well, then wouldn't they be in a Polarity against themselves? Surely it can't be that HooH's supreme opposite does the identical things as HooH, no?
 
why would IX be subordinate to HooH ? feels kinda random to me to make a Aeon stronger then another when HooH doesn't seem that impressive in story context
 
Matter of fact why did it intervene during Nous’s moment if it was nous itself? It already ordained ruperts death, why do more?
Since you added this: I never claimed HooH was Nous.

why would IX be subordinate to HooH ? feels kinda random to me to make a Aeon stronger then another when HooH doesn't seem that impressive in story context
If IX is literally described as the other side of the coin in juxtaposition to Existence (a duality), then HooH who is directly stated to control the balance of both naturally is superior. Also, mind you, the pathstriders of Equilibrium are already capable of dissipating IX's Shadow. Seems hardly farfetched

Also, Equilibrium's followers are also the ONLY ones who are deemed as "Gods" throughout all Paths btw
 
If IX is literally described as the other side of the coin in juxtaposition to Existence (a duality), then HooH who is directly stated to control the balance of both naturally is superior. Also, mind you, the pathstriders of Equilibrium are already capable of dissipating IX's Shadow. Seems hardly farfetched

Also, Equilibrium's followers are also the ONLY ones who are deemed as "Gods" throughout all Paths btw
If you’re aware, there is no mention of “equilibrium followers” or “Equilibrium Pathstrider,” only “follow Equilibrium.” Even on the loading screen, the text says “HooH and Their Emanators.”

So it’s probably that the Arbitrators are Emanators rather than Pathstriders, which makes this idea not really far-fetched.

Moreover, it’s “Arbitrators” with an “s,” which suggests that their actions are carried out as a group rather than individually.
 
If you’re aware, there is no mention of “equilibrium followers” or “Equilibrium Pathstrider,” only “follow Equilibrium.” Even on the loading screen, the text says “HooH and Their Emanators.”

So it’s probably that the Arbitrators are Emanators rather than Pathstriders, which makes this idea not really far-fetched.
Ye I guess that's true. Uh, I don't necessarily see how that does much against my points anyhow. Not to mention that they still appear as exceedingly powerful emanators

But I feel like my point is being missed in this thread in general. Cuz going with how the other guy mistook me claiming "HooH is Nous", it gives me the feeling that ya'll assume I'm speaking of HooH in a Pantheistic sense... but, I literally don't believe he is the universe itself. Nor did I ever imply that HooH should never be capable of having actions. And other Aeons can have their own actions too lol; it's just that they're all inevitably caught up on the web of logic behind the universe and sometimes HooH themselves intervenes... but none of this takes anything from his substantiality nor does it affect Low 1-A at all.

Although not 1:1, this would be akin to saying that a Tier 0 having any interactions with the common beings is an anti-feat even though it's part of its own eternal Act.

The duality is just something they control and govern lol.
 
Actually cooked fandom
how is it so hard to understand duality 😭
HooH is both himself and his opposite, therefore he works towards balance and against it. So he does both balance the universe, and unbalance it.
The other Aeons don’t scale to him because the logic used to upscale HooH does not apply to them, simple.
 
Actually cooked fandom
how is it so hard to understand duality 😭
HooH is both himself and his opposite, therefore he works towards balance and against it. So he does both balance the universe, and unbalance it.
The other Aeons don’t scale to him because the logic used to upscale HooH does not apply to them, simple.
It’s just weird to me because the scans themselves quite literally stated that he—in complete perpetuity—maintains the balance of “all things”, and that he sees “everything”, and that he puts “all beings” in dualities and that all Aeons exist as one of these extreme concepts but apparently Aeons are neither:
  1. things
  2. beings
  3. part of a duality

But I’m 99% sure that, as I said, they conflate HooH’s substantiality with pantheism when he literally isn’t the universe itself but the thing that connects all things, instead.

Which is not a problem at all because all it means is that whenever the universe works towards an extreme, HooH/Web of Logic works against it to rebalance it in an absolute way. So “HooH” taking action is never a problem unless it’s specifically stated that the universe lost balance… but guess what? That has never happened.

Like they want HooH to just oneshot Tazzy but that literally goes against the equilibrium of all concepts lol. HooH cannot be “just good” or “just bad”, he is both which paradoxically leaves him to be the most balanced (the fusion of positive with negative). Because I’ve stressed out that duality literally cannot exist if extremes don’t work against each other. (As you said in your comment as well)

The entire scale is merely that the respective dualities require HooH to qualify themselves. Him taking action means nothing, except if as I’ve said, balance is truly lost (which means they don’t actually govern all things). If not then there’s no issue because it’s just the universal equilibrium—identified with HooH themselves—maintaining balance (what is supposed to happen).

So the only way L1A doesn’t work is if the scan that says “HooH splits concepts and puts all beings in interchangeable dualities” is completely false.
 
It’s just weird to me because the scans themselves quite literally stated that he—in complete perpetuity—maintains the balance of “all things”, and that he sees “everything”, and that he puts “all beings” in dualities and that all Aeons exist as one of these extreme concepts but apparently Aeons are neither:
  1. things
  2. beings
  3. part of a duality

But I’m 99% sure that, as I said, they conflate HooH’s substantiality with pantheism when he literally isn’t the universe itself but the thing that connects all things, instead.

Which is not a problem at all because all it means is that whenever the universe works towards an extreme, HooH/Web of Logic works against it to rebalance it in an absolute way. So “HooH” taking action is never a problem unless it’s specifically stated that the universe lost balance… but guess what? That has never happened.

Like they want HooH to just oneshot Tazzy but that literally goes against the equilibrium of all concepts lol. HooH cannot be “just good” or “just bad”, he is both which paradoxically leaves him to be the most balanced (the fusion of positive with negative). Because I’ve stressed out that duality literally cannot exist if extremes don’t work against each other. (As you said in your comment as well)

The entire scale is merely that the respective dualities require HooH to qualify themselves. Him taking action means nothing, except if as I’ve said, balance is truly lost (which means they don’t actually govern all things). If not then there’s no issue because it’s just the universal equilibrium—identified with HooH themselves—maintaining balance (what is supposed to happen).

So the only way L1A doesn’t work is if the scan that says “HooH splits concepts and puts all beings in interchangeable dualities” is completely false.
I’m not really against the duality aspect, but I just doubt how HooH could be superior to all other aeons when the game never states that.

For example, there are four paths that can bring Finality, and by “bringing Finality,” they effectively eliminate the balance—or, in other words, they can kill HooH.

This means that other aeons have the potential to kill HooH as well. So, if HooH is Low-1A and the other aeons are 1B, the other aeons wouldn’t be able to touch HooH, let alone kill them.
 
I’m not really against the duality aspect, but I just doubt how HooH could be superior to all other aeons when the game never states that.

For example, there are four paths that can bring Finality, and by “bringing Finality,” they effectively eliminate the balance—or, in other words, they can kill HooH.

This means that other aeons have the potential to kill HooH as well. So, if HooH is Low-1A and the other aeons are 1B, the other aeons wouldn’t be able to touch HooH, let alone kill them.
i think entire 1-B and Low 1-A diff between HooH and aeons can be solved if IMG Space is also Low 1-A, since that way their true forms would be Low 1-A while their manifestations just where we scale Physical Universe,
HooH would still be scaled higher even if they are same tier.
4 finalities isnt something capable of killing aeons but pushing the universe towards destruction, we already saw Cyrene bring universe into finality by freezing entire cosmos, which likely means that the finality here only affects physical universe. Even when irontomb destroyed IT not a single Aeon died let alone HooH
 
i think entire 1-B and Low 1-A diff between HooH and aeons can be solved if IMG Space is also Low 1-A, since that way their true forms would be Low 1-A while their manifestations just where we scale Physical Universe,
HooH would still be scaled higher even if they are same tier.
4 finalities isnt something capable of killing aeons but pushing the universe towards destruction, we already saw Cyrene bring universe into finality by freezing entire cosmos, which likely means that the finality here only affects physical universe. Even when irontomb destroyed IT not a single Aeon died let alone HooH
Still, the “balance” would be gone, which means the entity maintaining it isn’t strong enough to stop them.
 
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