Limits of Hourai Immortality

[Drac32Drac]

Touhou is notorious about being vague about a great many details, and Hourai Immortality is no exception. I hope this discussion can attempt do narrow down the effective 'inconclusive' range on this immortality. It will be difficult to keep the various headcanons out of this debate, but lets see if we can't pin this one down. I'll lead off with a few facts to start the ball rolling.

Alice states that a human that drinks the elixer casts aside their physical body and that the soul is able to produce a new body as often as it likes. She also makes it clear that a Horai Immortal can run out of stamina.

Yuyuko also says something to the effect that the soul itself is also protected via the elixir somehow. She uses the words 'undying ghost' to describe what would happen if a ghost were to take the elixer. She adds that such a being could never achieve nirvana, nor reincarnate.

Mokou mentions immunity to all diseases.

Eirin mentions immunity to poisons.

 

[Drac32Drac]

Right away, between the above details. It's actually fairly safe to assume that NO physical attack will put a Hourai Immortal down for good, regardless of tiering. This goes beyond the NLF because it is tied to how the elixir works fundamentally. The physical body just isn't important to their survival.

The question then becomes, what about damage to the soul? That is much more tricky to figure out. There is evidence to lead to the assumption that the soul is somehow reinforced and potentially protected from cartain hax, but to what degree, I cannot say at this time.

Also, simply removing the elixer from the body obviously won't work... as the body is no longer required to regenerate. This actually hints towards some kind of reinforcement loop between the elixir and the immortal, essentially becoming inseparable via 'standard' means.

 

[DontTalk]

Well, the whole as long as a single hair remains they can regenerate stuff is what it currently is scaled of.

Sources for the statements about soul?

 

[Drac32Drac]

Alice's lines in Imperishable Night during the fight with Moukou. Also, Yuyuko's lines are from that fight as well. You can find a direct translation from the touhou wiki. I'll post a link momentarily.

Edit... and here they are.

Team Magic Extra Stage Translation.

Netherworld Team Extra Translation.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Wasn't it said that they could regenerate even without a hair?

 

[Drac32Drac]

Given that Mokou's current MO seems to be 'find a way to die', I'm inclined to believe that complete bodily destruction just won't do it. Mokou is more than capable of completely blowing herself up.

 

[DontTalk]

Well, given Alice's dialog I would guess at least Low - Godly Regenerationn.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

That's what I always thought it was tbh. They regenerate via disemdoided Soul-hax-immune soul.

 

[Drac32Drac]

That's the tricky part. There isn't really enough evidence to say that it is soul hax immunity, just highly resistant to it.

 

[Drac32Drac]

So, here's the rub... is there anything that we can say definitively defeats Hourai Immortality? There is a lot of grey area and room for speculation for what feats might do it.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well BFR for one.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

It's been a while, but I don't remember HI having anything to protect against the user being erased on a fundamental level (unless I'm forgetting something), so I assume that would probably be able to do the trick. That, and if the user isn't completely immune to soul attacks (just highly resistant), that might do the trick if done on a high enough level.

 

[Drac32Drac]

BFR certainly works, the standard ace in the hole against immortality.

As for soul hax, It's certainly plausible that a high enough level of soul hax can override it, determining what level that is seems impossible and just leaves it inconclusive.

Being erased conceptually? That might work. I don't know if it has been stated or even implied to be resistant to that type of attack. Though, many fanon interpretations take it to the extreme and say that not only will that not work, but even paradox inducing time hax wouldn't either. I won't be that guy, though.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well I mean some characters have conceptual attacks, but to unknown degree.

Also the Wiki mentions this, not sure where it comes from.

" it seem that the elixir itself isn't a power that keeps one immortal, but makes one an existence completely independent of even the concept of reality, thus making one not subject to the bounds of life, death, or even manipulation,"

 

[Yamatohime]

It was said that Horai Elixir removes one from circle of death and live. Buddhist one.

 

[Drac32Drac]

@Saikou... I would love to know where that comes from... it would give the fanon interpretations credibility.

 

[Drac32Drac]

It was said that Horai Elixir removes one from circle of death and live. Buddhist one.

Yuyuko herself said something to that effect in the Mokou fight.

 

[Yamatohime]

It's from dialogues from IN.

 

[Yamatohime]

It was said that Horai Elixir removes one from circle of death and live. Buddhist one.

Yuyuko herself said something to that effect in the Mokou fight.

In this terms if actual Buddhism is in action. It means that's those who drank HE has completely defying our reality. Because such state in Buddhism means Nirvana... Or complete disappearacne from the Universe.

 

[Drac32Drac]

You see, serious debate about Hourai Immortality quickly gets rather complex.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I just kinda gave up looking for sources in 2hu things. I had spent so much time looking for FTL Aya in STB

 

[Drac32Drac]

I just kinda gave up looking for sources in 2hu things. I had spent so much time looking for FTL Aya in STB

Doesn't she take pictures of herself... taking pictures?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Yeah, but I'm searching for the source that says that she does it via sheer speed and not just slefie or something. Because if she is FTL in these instances, everyone is technically.

 

[Yamatohime]

Doesn't she take pictures of herself... taking pictures?

She has old camera though... Where exposition can be quite long.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Yeah but she does so mid-battle, it wouldn't be a clear pic of herself if it was exposition.

 

[Drac32Drac]

If you could actually see the camera in the picture, then its not a selfie. I don't know if the camera is part of the character sprite, though.

 

[Yamatohime]

Those cameras has delayed activation too. =)

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

If you could actually see the camera in the picture, then its not a selfie. I don't know if the camera is part of the character sprite, though.

I think omnipresent camera is the more impressive feat here.

 

[Drac32Drac]

PMiSS makes it sound like it's not an ordinary camera anyways.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Even if it's delayed activation, she still can't take pic of herself if she has the camera in her hands.

 

[Yamatohime]

We out of topic.

I want to know.. What kind of material is their foot ball made of...

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Hourai infused fabric.

 

[Yamatohime]

But it didn't regenerate. And it was mentioned that HE do not grand durability.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Ssssh, it regenreates too fast for our eyes to see.

 

[Drac32Drac]

Whatever it's made of, it will survive the Apocalypse. XD

 

[Drac32Drac]

If you could actually see the camera in the picture, then its not a selfie. I don't know if the camera is part of the character sprite, though.

I think omnipresent camera is the more impressive feat here.

Or Aya fast enough to break causality? (Arrives before leaving)

 

[Yamatohime]

I've read the thread about Alice vs Narutoverse... The thread soon turned to who can survive Shinki's ire...

 

[DontTalk]

We out of topic.
I want to know.. What kind of material is their foot ball made of...

Its actually just a painted Yin-Yang orb...

 

[Yamatohime]

Or Aya fast enough to break causality? (Arrives before leaving)

At best - probably the other way around. =)

But possible for FTL movement though.

 

[Yamatohime]

We out of topic.
I want to know.. What kind of material is their foot ball made of...

Its actually just a painted Yin-Yang orb...

I can consider it cheating then. Since YYorbs fly where Reimu wants.