Kengan Speed CRT: To bullet time or to not bullet time?

[Infera28]

" Who was weakened and injured. The links you've provided in your own response show this, do not be dishonest."

lol dishonest? i already told you Niko was weakened but it doesn't suddenly reduce his speed to zero. it does?

"Who, prior to this, was blitzing the **** out of Ohma, and, despite wearing an 80 kg vest was capable of dodging Ohma's attacks for ten days' straight. "

Ohma was wearing weights too and it really doesn't debunk anything but tells us post training Ohma is stronger than pre training Ohma. after days fightning and training in Jungle he pretty much got stronger. also in end of training Young Ohma still reacted to him and through demonbane greatly damaged him. so what stops us from scaling Young Ohma to him?

"Because he was trying to use a specific technique to get Ohma out of the Advance , they literally explain this on the panel you linked as well."

he wasn't capable of casually doing it. Ohma prevented him from using tecnique, traded countless blows [1] kept up with him and heavily damaged him (just look at your linked panel). so they had relative speeds. if Niko was far faster than Ohma then he hadn't any problem for dodging entire of Ohma's attacks and using his tecnique. yet in 2 different panels they traded countless blows and Ohma seriously damaged him. so pretty much we can scale Advanced Young Ohma to him.

" Yes, I'm sure posting offscreen examples, that we literally cannot gauge in any visual capacity whatsoever because we don't know what happened in either scenario, is going to contradict the very clear textual examples posted over and over in this very thread about how the strongest and fastest people in this verse are not reacting to bullets. You also do not need to be faster than a bullet to dodge them."

i'm pretty sure in order to defeating "entire of armies" through pure martial arts you need to having a speed relative to bullets. also i still believe Muteba ship feat implies his speed is relative to bullets. same as Inaba's feat. tbh non of debunks for said feats were logical.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

No idea what the others on my side earlier feel but feel free to PM them

Infer just chill. If you do want to continue the debate focus on Kirbin's

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

With Ciruno's concession I'm pretty sure we can just start applying this, honestly.

 

[Antvasima]

@Xulrev

Okay. This is probably fine to apply then.

Does somebody have a suggestion for how to word the new discussion rule?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

We need to actually agree on what speed they'd scale first

Rule is up to you guys

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

On that note

Himuro's fists have a velocity of 15 meters per second, only 50% faster than the average middleweight Due to him being a mook level fellow who couldn't really compare to anyone (till Omega which is a timeskip) everyone should likely be at least faster than him here.

Akoya's feats are the best to use. However we should note that his scale to reacting to Cosmo's zone was him relying on Hiyama. The 76 miliseconds are the safer bet here.

Also a contradiction. Despite Cosmo being said to have only a limit of 100 miliseconds in his Zone, it still managed to work on Akoya. He can also safely scale to the 76 considering he's only getting faster and faster as narrated by the others in C126.

Ohma's execution of a takedown could overlap with that slight delay of him not attacking right after. Considering the situation of him being extremely fatigued and desperate and not at his peak condition, it's good to scale and consistent with the 76.

Chiba vs Hatsumi features Hatsumi not at his peak condition. Chiba's also a R1 level combatant and isn't physically impressive compared to everyone. The timing here is also unreliable if people can speak an entire sentence while a second passes. Cinematic timing is annoying like that. This timeframe should be used for Chiba though.

It has no timeframe but Kiozan's Raging Vigor despite being FTE, is only 4x faster than a normal sumo charge

I'm a bit confused here by the way since it seems to only imply double speed and double distance (of how long he can keep his speed). Considering the situation, that would mean 26 m/s instead of 52 m/s if we are to use the lowball of 13. Though... It's only FTE for the likes of our favorite Old Man MC. Sekibayashi himself seems to be fine reacting to it.


On some other notes on Poly's scaling

A thrown knife can be any speed dependent on the thrower. The White Guard throwing a knife doesn't mean it's slow. This is a scaling, not a speed feat. Not to mention it was used as an ambush.

Though you're right on it being the fastest fight, that's all there is to it. I can't find any pages on it being "the most impressive speed". Mind providing me some?

That said, we can also utilize Rei's first round blitz as a scaling since apparently that's done in a split second.


TLDR = We can start at 76 miliseconds for most Round 2 fighters.

The Sumo feat is also a good scale for Round 1 fighters.

Chiba's speed should be pretty consistent for most of the lesser Round 1 fighters

I also want to adress the Bando feat and a certain even for top tiers between Fang and Beard since there seems to be some reaction feats to scale there.

 

[Xulrev]

Small note.

There's no contradiction on Zone. Akoya successfully blocked the stranglehold due to only his innate reaction times, roughly 14-15 milliseconds to move his arm to block Cosmo completing the lock is actually incredibly consistent since Himaya didn't give him any signal and noted, specifically, the signal was late/non-existent.

I don't think there's any contradiction there

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

I agree on the first instance it was used.

It was more on the second time he used it on Akoya just when Cosmo got knocked down after a Python hold. Just about when he's nearly defeated. I'll link it up in a bit. It's to the point that he couldn't even react when Imai got onto him before he realized it.

 

[Infera28]

I agree on the first instance it was used. It was more on the second time he used it. Just about when he's nearly defeated. I'll link it up in a bit. It's to the point that he couldn't even react when Imai got onto him before he realized it.

well Akoya was suprised. having speed advantage against something doesn't mean you can always dodge it. Cosmo through constant using different forms of Zone from different directions in unexpected moments suprised Akoya and managed to putting him into submission holds. also Akoya was weakened and damaged. it reduces his speed.

not to mention Cosmo had tecnique/skill advantage too. countering his tecniques wasn't a easy task for Akoya.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

That might be the case. But this is the same situation for both. Akoya might be injured and so, but Cosmo even moreso. And despite his 'berserk' status, he was still able to clearly process and think so he was definitely rationally thinking. The entire time he wasn't underestimating Cosmo and was approaching his caution, constantly reassessing (C125)

Akoya was surprised the first time too when the Zone was used on him but he almost got Cosmo. In fact, numerous times Cosmo's attacks kept hitting him. Ambush might they be, it's consistent with Akoya taking note of how Cosmo's reaction time is improving (C126, Pg 7)

That's true usually. But the moment Akoya's gotten serious he's clearly countered many of Cosmo's moves through particularly brutal means.

Edit - My main argument here is Cosmo seems pretty consistent with showing he's nearly ambushed and hit Akoya several times, and should easily scale to 76 miliseconds alongside anyone who scales to him

 

[Infera28]

bump

 

[Infera28]

bump

what happened for against side? i thought they were supposed to making new speed scalings.

 

[Xulrev]

It's been 48 hours, Infera. And we already had a small discussion about it in this very thread.

Patience is a virtue

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

Calm yo **** son.

Life takes priority over calcs. Sides I left some minor notes that no one is talking about.

Ill be more active around Monday when my schedule frees up.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

So like, what ever happened to this?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I'm fine with Verlux just applying the revisions himself, since we've seemed to agree on his conclusions.

 

[Antvasima]

What has been accepted here can probably be applied.

So, what should we do about this by the way?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

Me and Amlad are still discussing speed scaling. Admittedly I got busy but please have patience. There are things happening in life

@Ant

I talked about heavily on the revision of that and the inclusion of such speed feats

 

[Antvasima]

No problem. I have also been kept busy preparing for the Coronavirus crisis.

Okay. I do not remember though. An easy to understand summary would be appreciated.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

Thank you for understanding. Hoping for your and everyone else's safety.

The revision that I haven't posted is what I'm talking about, sorry, wasn't clear

 

[Antvasima]

No problem. Thank you. I hope so as well.

Okay.

 

[Xulrev]

I've been exceptionally busy with life changes recently, and COVID issues.

What revision are you discussing Ciruno? If none exists at the moment, I think applying my Discussion Rule is alright per the entire thread and Dargoo

 

[Antvasima]

@Xulrev

Can you restate your suggested Discussion Rules text please? I do not remember anymore.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

@Xulrev

All the existing speed feats (low level and high level) and that brief break was almost enough time for me to finish it. Just scaling to each other and a possible revision on all profiles moveset wise