Kelsier vs. Kayneth Archibald

[Dargoo_Faust]

To celebrate me copying and pasting sh*t from Lord Ruler's profile making a profile for Kelsier, let's try and give the champ his first battle.

Speed is equalized, Kayneth starts the battle with Volumen Hydrargyrum. Battle takes place in Einsbern Mansion, and Kelsier has acess to all his metals sans Atium. Otherwise, SBA.

Kelsier - 1 (Papi)

Kayneth -

Incon - 2 (Apies, Dragon)

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

>Sees all his metals.

So Kel wins then.

>No Atium

Oh ok, got it. Gonna have to think on it.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Bump

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Bump

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Oh, right kinda forgot about this, sorry. Anyway, I'm really not sure. I thought alot about this a day ago and couldn't really come to a conclusion. Does Archibald have like mp or something that can run out?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I believe Magecraft is limited by mana, although Kayneth has a metric ton given how talented he is as a magus. In otherwords, Kel can drain him in touch, although that's assuming he can get past Volumen's automatic defenses.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

What i'm thinking is with the skill set each of them has, neither can really touch each other. In my mind, it's either an Inconclusive or a loss for who ever runs out first.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I'm actually not sure on that one. Might be best to wait for Monarch to pop into this thread, although if both of them just go for destructive force I'd say Kayneth would edge over, especially since it can also block attacks that Kel throws at him.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Yeah but Archibald's only attack is a gaint blob of metal, which can't really touch Kel untill he runs dry.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

You forget metals charged with magic/attributes resist Allomancy, and Volumen has a sizable amount of magic flowing through it.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

That's true. I'm still not sure. Kel should still be able to sense any attacks coming.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I'm also pretty sure Kel can riot or soothe Kayneth, although I don't know the extent of his magic/mind resistances.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Does Kel have Duralumin?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Kel has all metals he typically has access to except for Atium.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Alright so the basics then. Yeah, I'm not sure. Archibald's main advantage is that his Volumen will resist Kel's pushes and pulls, but that just evens things out for me even more. Yeah, I don't know. I guess put me down for a Conclusive Inconslusive.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Kel - 0

Melloi - 0

Incon - 1

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Bump

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Bump

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Bump

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Bump

 

[PapiSavitar5025]

Bump

okoki'mheregivemeasecondtothinkaboutthis-

 

[PapiSavitar5025]

Seeing how Kayneth's little thing has automatic defenses, and isn't affected by pushes or pulls, I'd either see it going like this.

1. Kelsier looses by burning all of his metals out (Which I find the least likely outcome)

2. Kelsier retreats.

Put me down to Inconclusive, Unless I can find another reason why Kelsier or Kayneth would whoop eachother.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

and isn't affected by pushes or pulls

If it's metal and it isn't A) A metalmind or B) Aluminum, it's affected by pushes and pulls.

Also bump from the grave.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

I would argue any kind of metal with magic flowing through it would count as a metalmind via VerseEqualize.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I agree, actually. I think that was brought up in Wax vs. Kerry.

That put I think Kel is getting downgraded to 9-B as the 9-A feats were disproven, however I still think this is fair as Kel can still empathyhax to some degree.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

incon fra

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Yeah, Kayneth is like 10-A physically or something right? All Kell has to do is get around his Volumin Hydra.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Kayneth should actually be around 9-B physically, as even untrained mages can tank wall-shattering attacks.

 

[PapiSavitar5025]

and isn't affected by pushes or pulls

If it's metal and it isn't A) A metalmind or B) Aluminum, it's affected by pushes and pulls.
Also bump from the grave.

The other two people were saying that it wouldn't be, if it's affected I'm going with kelsier.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Kel - 1 (Papi)

Incon - 2 (Apies, Dragon)

Bump.

 

[PapiSavitar5025]

I mean, Kelsier could just redirect it anytime and go in for the kill, While Kayneth might have some physical strength I don't see him standing up against a pewter enhanched Kelsier in close quarters combat especially with that metal thing always coming back, Allowing Kelsier to push and pull on it and possibly even redirect it back at him.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Fodderizing Koloss and decapitating an Inquisitor would definitely justify that.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

I don't think anybody ever fodderized a koloss. The closest would be with Atium and Duralumin, neither of which are in play here.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Didn't Kel or Vin do that with enough Pewterburning or strong enough Pushes?

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Unless I'm forgeting something I don't thing the Koloss even showed up until book 2.

I mean even the small ones were considered a threat, and even then Vin was clearly a Pewter Savent.

 

[Szmiit]

Vin is not a savant only talented, and she could kill Kolosses left and right without using duraluminium. She had to use it a few times when fighting an army of them, but was trashing them too inbetween duraluminium boosts. Kelsier is weaker than Vin but not that much. And there is also standard Pewter flaring which is easy to forget.

Coinshoting is basically gun - can Archibald survive gunshot?

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Volumin Hydra has blocked bullets, and she's clearly a lowkey savent. Not anywhere near spook sure, but she fits the signs. She flares pewter constantly and suffers without it. And when she fought the army she had Elend with her, who is actually stronger then her and Kell.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

To be fair, Kayneth has to do certain chants to activate some parts of Vol, although some of its defenses are automatic. While Kel isn't nearly as talented as Breeze with Soothing/Rioting, even basic Soothing/Rioting should make coordinated attacks from Kayneth hard.

I'd argue that coinshot projectiles surpass bullets simply because they have a much larger mass via being coins and would be 9-B via scaling alone. The only downside is that they aren't piercing projectiles and can land flat, dispersing a lot of the energy.

 

[Szmiit]

In Mistborn Alloy of Law MC who is a coinshot who also likes to use guns says that they are interchangable with firepower, and coins are easier to use.

Pewter Savant gets pain resistance and better healing - not greater strength.

Plus interesting info i found while scouting Arcanum (official archive with quotes of the author of the books) burning Pewter with a normal person doubles strength, and with flaring triples (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/9/#e7674)

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Yeah, I remember Wax saying that.

I'm not sure if the multiplier works literally, as some pewter burning characters have feats that are well over three times of what even peak humans can accomplish.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

According to Ham a pewter boost is static and the same for everyone but different thugs are stronger or weaker depending on their base strength. Also multiple characters comment on flaring harder or weaker depending on the situation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a savent is someone who flares a metal for so long and so hard that they gain an increased effectiveness, and dependency on said metal which fits Vin to a tee.

 

[Szmiit]

Savant is someone who's souls gets damaged because of overusing magic. They usually get some kind of boost depending on type of magic they use. Constant flaring pewter is the thing Vin and Kelsier did once for a short time to run endlessly withought getting tired. Pewter flaring is the most dangerous one and I'msure there is somwhere info that Pewter Savant is uncapable of feeling pain. If she was one her body would be more wrecked than Spooks. Plus she would probably die during the process. That is not something you can do without beeing verry focused on keeping used stammina in check.

Vin was stronger and undersood allomancy intuitvely besause of her connection to mists. Sanderson wants savantism with strong effects to have severe consequences. Soulcasting savants just auto die after fev years. That is why he hasn't yet decided wheather Wax's anti bullet field is resuld of him going savant or not. Vin doesn't have any consequences.

 

[JedWingard]

I give this fight to Kelsier because in my opinion his abilities just makes him way too hard to deal with. If he has all of his metals from his point in the trilogy then he has Atium, Pewter, Iron and Steel to drasticly help his maneuverability, speed and reaction time especially since he sees attacks before they happen. And if we give him access to all 16 metals then he also has access to duralumin making all of that much stronger, plus the bendalloy would be very useful. If he found an empty room to hide in he could drop a coin to push to the ceiling and hide, and if Archibald uses Volumen Hydrargyrum then I think there is a chance Kelsier could burn bendalloy so that it couldn't track his heart beat. Or if you want all his metals to be useful in this fight he could turn on bronze to avoid detection(not saying it would actually work but in the context of this cross over you could just say it does). But even without that he's still extremely stealthy, and manipulative. If he can remain hidden he could burn zinc to mess with Archibald's emotions and get him to make a mistake.Use zinc to inflame his anger or impatience, or Brass to calm him and make overconfident. And if it comes to a battle the Volumen Hydrargyrum is technically a metallic substance so he maybe able to redirect attacks at least slightly with Steel pushes. Perhaps if Archibald puts up defenses from coins thrown Kelsier could have a duralumin fueled steel push to open the shield and let Archibald get hit. I feel like Kelsier is just way too slippery for Archibald to handle. Even if he doesn't have Atium I still think he takes it.

 

[Szmiit]

What does Kayneth need to use his magic? Is there some sort of mana in universe? Because if Kelsier has 16 metals he has also Chromium that can also depleat sources of magic, even across magic systems, by touch.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

He uses od (internal energy), mana (energy of the World) and prana (a mix of the two).

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

It was specified in the OP the Kell only had access to the metals he had in life minus Atium. So no metals that were discovered after he died.

 

[Szmiit]

I orginally asumed so, but since OP says "all his metals" and JedWingard mentions 16 I thought that's what he got.

 

[JedWingard]

If it's specifically only the metals he had in life minus Atium I still say Kel takes it because he's just way too slippery and manipulative

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Incon FRA