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Kamen Rider Transduality Revision "II"

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Another duality thread, this time focusing on our loveable Demon King. Because this revision is about duality, I'd like to go over the definition of yin and yang, which is the fundamental concept of duality and has a lot to do with this thread.

[BIG NOTE]: Big thanks to Jamesthetaker who help me prepare the thread 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

Introduction​

So, most people here understand the fundamentals of yin and yang, a concept in Chinese philosophy that represents opposing yet interconnected forces. The receptive principle is yin, and the active principle is yang, which may be seen in our everyday life as woman and man, cold and warm, negative and positive, and so on. According to the principle of yin-yang, seemingly opposing or opposed forces tend to balance each other out, which creates the harmony of the universe.

Explaination​

So, how does this relate to Kamen Rider? Well, Kamen Rider has a fair amount of influences based on this idea. One of these is Kamen Rider Ryuki's Mirror World. It's a world you can travel around using mirrors because it's a reflection of the real world and where the Kanzaki brothers, Ura Shinji (Mirror World Shinji), Ura Sougo (Mirror World Sougo), and the Mirror Monsters live. It exists as two sides of the same coin as the real world and mirrors reality's own laws. The word "ura" (裏) here means inside, while "hyoo" (表) is outside. So, you get the idea behind these words. Simply put, Mirror World is the yin to the yang of the real world.

The focus of this revision, however, will be on Tokiwa Sougo and his mirror counterpart, Ura Sougo. They meet for the first time in episode 20 when Sougo is struggling with his darker side, and two episodes later, Sougo understands that he and Ura Sougo are the same person, with both the nicest and most wicked sides being true. This is further emphasized in the novelization of Kamen Rider Zi-O, when Sougo encounters Ura Sougo again and the latter defines himself as the yin (darkness). When the yin and yang are combined, there is no sense of evil or good; they coexist, establishing the dualism of Tokiwa Sougo. Therefore, we can conclude that the series acknowledges and incorporates several aspects of the yin-yang concept into its own lore.

Now we will go over the tangible evidence of this yin-yang thing. Once Sougo accepts his inner darkness, he gains the Zi-O II Ridewatch, which he uses to transform into Kamen Rider Zi-O II. With his newfound power, Zi-O rewrites the past to prevent Geiz's death, then predicts the past and future and uses it as an advantage to defeat the enemy. Sometime later, we found out that predicting the future isn't the only thing Zi-O can do; he can literally create a new future as he desires. This caused Sougo to create an alternate future, which in turn created Kamen Rider Kikai in 2121 based on what he had previously believed to be a dream. So, by understanding the two aspects that govern reality (past-future), Zi-O was able to take control of them freely and "transcend time".

To continue, we will delve deeper into the past-future duality. Let us recall Sougo's statement, in which he mentions not only past and future but also dark and light, evil and good, inside and outside, and so on, all of which are dualities in the world. Regardless, the past-future takes precedence, and Sougo will eventually use it to control time. This is supported by WoG, which claimed that only when Sougo can govern all aspects of reality will he obtain the power to control time. Another Zi-O II is an example of this, as he has the same abilities as Kamen Rider Zi-O, such as precognition, rewriting the past, and even the ability to overwrite the whole timeline. This is where Chinese philosophy and Kamen Rider lore intersect: in this context, "time" refers to the entirety of reality, and "past-future" alludes to the yin-yang, which is the most fundamental principle that upholds all aspects of reality. To conclude, Zi-O power allowed him to govern "past-future," the duality that precedes all aspects of reality; as a result, he can control "time," or the reality from which the duality originates.

In the third section, we will look at the statement "transcend time." The term itself is ambiguous because it can refer to a variety of things in general, hence we'll deduce the context behind it. That being said, there is something you must first understand: the Ohma Advent Calendar, a book that chronicles all of the events that led Sougo to become the Demon King Ohma Zi-O. While the book's content may alter as a result of a series of events, the outcome of Ohma Zi-O is unchangeable. This bring us back to Another Zi-O II from before, in which he overwrote the entire timeline and erased other Riders from existence in order to overthrow Zi-O. Despite his changes to history, the outcome of the Ohma Advent Calendar stays the same: Sougo's uprising as Ohma Zi-O. For those reason, Zi-O is unaffected by any alteration in "time" or "past-future." As a result, we can legitimately believe that Zi-O not only governs all aspects of reality, but that he is "above" them and immune to the consequences of those aspects.

TL;DR​

To summarize what I've written thus far, Kamen Rider defines "past-future" as the fundamental duality governing all forms of reality, with "time" representing reality as a whole. To become a great king, Zi-O must govern all of those aspects in order to gain the ability to control "time." Simultaneously, Zi-O's transcendence from "time" would rendering him immune to the effect that could change reality, this would give him Transduality type 2
 

Type 2 (General Transduality): Characters that exist in a nondual state regarding all dual systems within the scope of an entire level of reality and qualitatively superior or immune to the effects caused within it. Furthermore, characters with this type can be accurately described as being in either both or neither state of the dualities.
I can't say that I follow ZI-O being transcendent over "all dual systems" when you compare it to the other examples we are given. It seems that a lot is being lumped in transcending time.
 
When Zi-O accept his counterpart-yin, he's also accept all the dualities in the reality (mirror world + real world) and "rule" them both, by "rule" past-future he acquires acausality and immune to history change, since Zi-O is the series that focus on the aspect of time, it doesn't show the qualitatively superior of other dualities, but still possibly TD 2 would sound better to you i assume.
 
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We are told that Sugou accepts the dualities of Dark, Light, Good, Evil, etc, but that doesn't imply that he transcends their effect on him.

Typical Transduality Type 2 characters are some form of being one with everything as a unity, indifferent to the lower dualities.

I'm unsure at what point we consider "all dual systems" to apply, but here's a list I found for reference.

What are the "staples" that would imply "all dual systems"? I bolded some that I think work.
 
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We are told that Sugou accepts the dualities of Dark, Light, Good, Evil, etc, but that doesn't imply that he transcends their effect on him.
Why not? He accept the dualities of past-future and he transcend the effect of timeline rewrite or transcend time. This was shown twice in Tv series and Stage Show
I think Zi-O suit these two: he makes his dream become actual future, creating Another Kikai which is a dream production to exist in real-life. While Ohma Zi-O can returns space-time to nothingness and makes space-time from nothing as the duality of Destruction-Creation is his true power
 
Why not? He accept the dualities of past-future and he transcend the effect of timeline rewrite or transcend time. This was shown twice in Tv series and Stage Show

I think Zi-O suit these two: he makes his dream become actual future, creating Another Kikai which is a dream production to exist in real-life. While Ohma Zi-O can returns space-time to nothingness and makes space-time from nothing as the duality of Destruction-Creation is his true power
Well, to transcend good and evil would imply that he is indifferent to the concepts of good and evil, being essentially amoral.

To transcend Existence/Nonexistence means to simply be, neither existing nor not existing in the Buddhist sense.

To clarify, Fiction Manipulation/Real World Manipulation (Real/Fake) are metafictional abilities, not just bringing dreams to life.

In any case, I ask the other staff at what point we consider "all dual systems" to apply.
 
We are told that Sugou accepts the dualities of Dark, Light, Good, Evil, etc, but that doesn't imply that he transcends their effect on him.

Typical Transduality Type 2 characters are some form of being one with everything as a unity, indifferent to the lower dualities.

I'm unsure at what point we consider "all dual systems" to apply, but here's a list I found for reference.

What are the "staples" that would imply "all dual systems"? I bolded some that I think work.
In my opinion, these are the things that work for me:
Well, to transcend good and evil would imply that he is indifferent to the concepts of good and evil, being essentially amoral.
This scan right here describes him as not being tied to the concept of good or evil.
 
Perhaps it does not imply that Sougo has a childlike mind but rather that his morals are similar to those of a child who thinks nothing about good and evil. Sougo is at least 17 years old, so he isn't ignorant of the concept. "I'm the greatest and kindest Demon King," Ohma once said, and tyranny or mass genocide have no bearing on Sougo's kingship because it simply does not matter to him.

That being said, I will leave it at that. You guys can interpret this for whatever it is.
 
I don't think naivety/innocence is the same as transcending the concept of good and evil.
The thing is we saw what prime Zi-O is. He doesn't view his rule over Earth that he completely decimated as evil and proudly declared that he's still the kindest and greatest demon king. He doesn't care that his younger self is effectively trying to undermined his very existence, nor changing it.

Because the one who have the right to be king (himself) is free to choose whatever and however he saw fit.
 
There are few upcoming upgrade for Kamen Rider that may support this TD type 2 thread so could we temporary stop the discuss? We'll discuss this later until James revision released
 
Okay. It would also be helpful for a staff thread to better define the clues to deduce Type 2 and whatnot on the ability page.
 
There are few upcoming upgrade for Kamen Rider that may support this TD type 2 thread so could we temporary stop the discuss? We'll discuss this later until James revision released
kamen rider is wanked so im gonna downgrade it to 11-A via heisei forever

Joke aside, it gonna take a while for my revision to come out because I need to sort thing out with Sir Ovens.
 
neutral for this, but isn't it necessary to get Transduality Type 2 Immunity to all aspects of the reality (in that fiction)? if oma zio really has resistance up to the immune stage, to all of that in his fiction. then I agree to transduality Type 2

and I disagree with Yin-Yang there who presented All Things in Kamen Rider Fiction because what I saw that was discussed was only a counter part of Good and Bad.

He's using his unexpected powers to bring destruction to the threat that's been haunting him. Nevertheless, he seems to enjoy the fact. It's as if a child with no concept of good and evil kills insects out of curiosity.
I think this is a metaphor that doesn't refer to a transdual ability
 
This is what staff have said regarding the topic.

"In general, one gets the power by having explanations that pretty much say what the text requires. I don't think one would get "transcendence over all dual systems" without an explanation that more or less says, "this character is transcendent over all dual systems." Like, sure, instead of dual systems, you can use something that paraphrases it, like "can't be expressed as having any property or its opposite," but that's basically how far it goes.
You gonna need an "all" or "any" [and "transcends dual systems" synonyms] in a statement."
 
No, this is not what staff agreed with. DT explicitly stated that the context values over and matters on those stuff, sure you need those statements but if author described those in other terms, it qualifies.
 
No, this is not what staff agreed with. DT explicitly stated that the context values over and matters on those stuff, sure you need those statements but if author described those in other terms, it qualifies.
"you can use something that paraphrases it"

"You gonna need an "all" or "any" [and "transcends dual systems" synonyms] in a statement."

That is what he said. Also, two other staff agreed with his statements.
 
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