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Kamen Rider Revision: Cosmology Upgrade Part 2

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Jamesthetaker

Jamesthetaker

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The second revision of Kamen Rider Cosmology. The first one is here if you're wondering.

Translation source: The Digi-Lab and our friend @MagiSinbad

Higher Dimension​

First of all, I would like to explain that we have established how higher dimensions work as a whole. If you want the full detail then you can read the first revision because I'd only give a summary of it here:
Just as I said in previous thread, both movie aren't canon to each other yet they convey a similar concept. It shown that dimensions in Kamen Rider all work on the same principle of R/F Interaction.

Now that you get the main idea, let's move to the next part.

Showa VS Heisei​

This time I will bring you the Heisei Riders vs Showa Riders movie. In the movie, the Badan Empire attempts to reverse the world of the living and the dead, over which they called it "Mega Reverse Plan". In order to do that, they harness 7th dimensional power from a boy named Shuu and now our heroes must stop them.

Now this outright confirms that there exist at least 7 dimensions in Kamen Rider. Official sources from Kamen Rider Zukan and Super Complete Works also stated the same thing:
Kamen Rider Zukan:
交通事故で命を落としてしまった少年。

喧嘩した母親に真意を伝えられないままこの世を去ったことを悔いており、その願いの強さから黄泉の国で「七次元の力」を手にする。

A boy who lost his life in a car accident.

He regrets that he left this world without being able to convey his true feelings to his mother with whom he had a quarrel, and because of the strength of his wish, he obtains the "power of the seventh dimension" in the Land of Death.

Super Complete Works:
Shuu
Shuu is the son of Saki and Ren who have died in an traffic accident. Because his will to say his true feeling to his mother, who he’s accidently said “I hates you!!” to, he has attained the 7th dimensional power that can turn over the dimensions.
Click to expand...
Kamen Rider Zukan:
【 メガ・リバース計画 】

黄泉の国であるバダン帝国が企てた計画。

葵柊が持つ「七次元の力」とメガ・リバースマシンを利用し、亡者と生者の世界をひっくり返すというものであった。[#平成VS昭和]

Mega Reverse Plan

A plan hatched by the Badan Empire, the land of Death.

The plan was to use Aoi Hiiragi's "power of the seventh dimension" and the Mega Reverse Machine to turn the world of the deceased and the living upside down. [#Heisei vs. Showa]

Super Complete Works:
The Underground Empire, Badan. An evil organization whose predessor is Shocker, they used to fight Kamen Rider ZX in the past. They have been lurking in the kingdom of deads located in the dept of the earth, and planning to uses Shuu’s power to switch places of the surface world and the kingdom of the deads, which they calls “Neo Reverse Plan”. Reverse Machine.
The giantic fortress of Badan empire which arised from the dept of the earth. It was planned for this fortress to ultilize Shuu’s power to inverses the earth.
Click to expand...

Dimensions in Kamen Rider have been established to be qualitatively superior to others which mean the base multiverse would get boosted to 7-D. This will affect the scaling chain a lot but we won't talk about it here so let's move onto the next part.

Kamen Rider Gaim Novel​

This time, I will reiterate one of my previous revision but with better translation and more back-up evidence. As usual, I will give a summary so you guys can get the context:

In the Kamen Rider Gaim novel, the villain Kugai Kudo (Kamen Rider Saver) is a pseudo-Overlord who desired salvation by becoming one with the world.
The first, most immediate sensation was color.

He was being swallowed by every kind of color in existence.

After that was every other sensation. Sound. Scent. Touch. Visceral sensation — no, everything. Everything was engulfing him.

Everything, a mixture of everything, enveloping him into chaos and beating around him like a storm.

The same state, recurring eternally — and yet all still in a single moment.

The infinite colors eventually condensed into shapes. What had once been an explosion of color had now become a myriad of different scenes.

Taking all of it in, he understood what the flood of sensations was. He had come to understand everything.

Everything before his eyes — everything he could feel was “the world”. Every space and every time was unfolding in front of him.

He was engulfed in delight and ecstasy. Now, at this very moment, he was near omniscience. Having lost his vessel of flesh, his spirit was now soaring, and he had surpassed humanity.

The colors exploded yet again. Another violent rush of sensations. And then, silence.

-Intermission
Click to expand...
Such a man should have overcome life and death itself.

He should have become a transcendent being free from physical bounds, integrated into the vast multiverse.

He had surpassed time, surpassed space — but because of that, such a man had no future.

With no future, he thus had no concept of creation.

-Chapter 4
Click to expand...
"The world" here in context is constantly being used to refer to everything in existence. Saver has integrated all existence onto himself so he is 7-D but there is more to this.
“Ryouma Sengoku initially attempted to create an Apple Lockseed by using a system that produced false Golden Fruits. The experiment was a failure, and he decided to abandon that approach. But he built off of the data from the reconstructed Apple Lockseeds to complete the Sengoku Driver…”

Saber kept talking as Zangetsu Shin continued to barrage him with attacks.

“No. It was not a failure. As the test subject, I lost my physical body, but my very being evolved into a higher plane. Ryouma Sengoku was a fool to have abandoned his initial theory!”

“Higher? What are you even talking about!? Who even are you?!”

-Chapter 3
Click to expand...
“The time of the end is near…!”

“Save us who are lost…!”

The believers gathered in the surge tank had their Pomegranate Lockseeds in their hands, which were now glowing a bright scarlet.

In that one moment, all of their thoughts and feelings were synchronized through the Pomegranate Lockseed.

They were together in Kugai Kudo's world.

They were Kugai Kudou, and they were the world itself. They had reached a place of so-called omniscience and omnipotence, and were drenched in unprecedented euphoria.

And then — their physical bodies disappeared. Their minds had become energy of a higher plane, dwelling within the Saver System.

The savior’s machine — the Deus ex Machina — had started.

-Chapter 3
Click to expand...
In the bolded part, Saver claims he has ascended to a higher plane which means he exists above the multiverse. The statement that he surpassed space-time which supports the idea that Saver completely transcended all existence. The transcendent statements corroborate with the previous claims of Saver encompassing the entire multiverse referring to dimensional superiority.

Simply speaking, Saver encompasses the multiverse and exists above it should be 8-D.

The Real World​

Nothing much to say about this since it has been agreed upon that the Real World is beyond anything in the Kamen Rider multiverse (including Saver). The Real World would be 9-D by default.

Conclusion​

  • Higher dimensions in Kamen Rider work based on R/F Interaction
  • There is at least 7 dimensions in the base multiverse
  • Saver encompassing the multiverse and exist on a higher plane above it would be 8-D
  • The Real World is beyond anything in Kamen Rider multiverse so it would 9-D
 
Maskofthedragon said:
The multiverse isn't treated as 7D, just his powers which seem to be treated as abnormal
Click to expand...
Why it is?

Shuu's power is called "7th dimension" which mean there should be 7 dimensions in the multiverse. Super Complete Work literally claim his power can turn over dimensions.
 
I think it's still inconsequential in the grand scheme of things since the real world would transcend all Rider fiction regardless, even Shuu and his power.

Also considering Showa vs Heisei is a Gaim season, it's not a stretch to say that the golden fruit is > Shuu.
 
Would also like to add that if we aren't comfortable with rating Saver above Shuu, I still think there's enough evidence to warrant Low 1-C, likely 1-C for Saver since by himself, his feat would be 5D.
 
Jamesthetaker said:
Why it is?

Shuu's power is called "7th dimension" which mean there should be 7 dimensions in the multiverse. Super Complete Work literally claim his power can turn over dimensions.
Click to expand...
In the context of the movie it means "turning the world of the dead into the world of the living"
 
Jamesthetaker said:
The second revision of Kamen Rider Cosmology. The first one is here if you're wondering.

Translation source: The Digi-Lab and our friend @MagiSinbad

Higher Dimension​

First of all, I would like to explain that we have established how higher dimensions work as a whole. If you want the full detail then you can read the first revision because I'd only give a summary of it here:
Just as I said in previous thread, both movie aren't canon to each other yet they convey a similar concept. It shown that dimensions in Kamen Rider all work on the same principle of R/F Interaction.

Now that you get the main idea, let's move to the next part.

Showa VS Heisei​

This time I will bring you the Heisei Riders vs Showa Riders movie. In the movie, the Badan Empire attempts to reverse the world of the living and the dead, over which they called it "Mega Reverse Plan". In order to do that, they harness 7th dimensional power from a boy named Shuu and now our heroes must stop them.

Now this outright confirms that there exist at least 7 dimensions in Kamen Rider. Official sources from Kamen Rider Zukan and Super Complete Works also stated the same thing:



Dimensions in Kamen Rider have been established to be qualitatively superior to others which mean the base multiverse would get boosted to 7-D. This will affect the scaling chain a lot but we won't talk about it here so let's move onto the next part.

Kamen Rider Gaim Novel​

This time, I will reiterate one of my previous revision but with better translation and more back-up evidence. As usual, I will give a summary so you guys can get the context:

In the Kamen Rider Gaim novel, the villain Kugai Kudo (Kamen Rider Saver) is a pseudo-Overlord who desired salvation by becoming one with the world.


"The world" here in context is constantly being used to refer to everything in existence. Saver has integrated all existence onto himself so he is 7-D but there is more to this.


In the bolded part, Saver claims he has ascended to a higher plane which means he exists above the multiverse. The statement that he surpassed space-time which supports the idea that Saver completely transcended all existence. The transcendent statements corroborate with the previous claims of Saver encompassing the entire multiverse referring to dimensional superiority.

Simply speaking, Saver encompasses the multiverse and exists above it should be 8-D.

The Real World​

Nothing much to say about this since it has been agreed upon that the Real World is beyond anything in the Kamen Rider multiverse (including Saver). The Real World would be 9-D by default.

Conclusion​

  • Higher dimensions in Kamen Rider work based on R/F Interaction
  • There is at least 7 dimensions in the base multiverse
  • Saver encompassing the multiverse and exist on a higher plane above it would be 8-D
  • The Real World is beyond anything in Kamen Rider multiverse so it would 9-D
Click to expand...
since we've been discusing this before, so i got nothing to say, except agreement🥶
 
Maskofthedragon said:
In the context of the movie it means "turning the world of the dead into the world of the living"
Click to expand...
Yes, and that doesn't debunk anything. Super Complete Work claim there are other dimensions in the multiverse hence it's why Shuu's power are called 7th dimension.
 
Correction: It's turning the living world and the world of the dead upside down.

But like I said above, Shuu's power are called 7th dimension which mean there are multiple dimensions exist in the multiverse. It's a really simple logic.
 
Damn, surprised but I thought it was good.

By the way to another reference to Dimensions in GreatEye's profile, something like her changed the timelines to keep the dimensions from collapsing.

//////

また ､ 人間 が 存在 する 多数 の 次元 を 同時に 観察 し て おり 、 平行 世界 の 交錯 など を 察知 し た 際 は 、 次元 の 歪み が 生じ ないよう 、 矛盾 する 事象 に 都度 修正 を 加え て い た 。 グレート アイ ザー が 撃破 さ れ た 後 、 消さ れ て しまっ た 人々 を 元 に 戻し て ほしい という 天空 寺 タケル の 願い を 叶え 、 彼 を 復活 さ せ て から 地球 を 去っ た 。

In addition, he was observing many dimensions in which humans exist at the same time, and when he sensed the intersection of parallel worlds, he made corrections to the contradictory events so that the distortion of the dimensions would not occur. After the Great Iser was defeated, he was erased, fulfilling Takeru's wish to restore the people, and resurrected him before leaving the earth.

//////

although this does not interfere with anything in the post, because in the text Dimension is more for universes than anything else, but it is strange that "Parallel Worlds" is already specified for universes, which blurs the word dimensions from that sense.
 
MugenGhost said:
Damn, surprised but I thought it was good.

By the way to another reference to Dimensions in GreatEye's profile, something like her changed the timelines to keep the dimensions from collapsing.

//////

また ､ 人間 が 存在 する 多数 の 次元 を 同時に 観察 し て おり 、 平行 世界 の 交錯 など を 察知 し た 際 は 、 次元 の 歪み が 生じ ないよう 、 矛盾 する 事象 に 都度 修正 を 加え て い た 。 グレート アイ ザー が 撃破 さ れ た 後 、 消さ れ て しまっ た 人々 を 元 に 戻し て ほしい という 天空 寺 タケル の 願い を 叶え 、 彼 を 復活 さ せ て から 地球 を 去っ た 。

In addition, he was observing many dimensions in which humans exist at the same time, and when he sensed the intersection of parallel worlds, he made corrections to the contradictory events so that the distortion of the dimensions would not occur. After the Great Iser was defeated, he was erased, fulfilling Takeru's wish to restore the people, and resurrected him before leaving the earth.

//////

although this does not interfere with anything in the post, because in the text Dimension is more for universes than anything else, but it is strange that "Parallel Worlds" is already specified for universes, which blurs the word dimensions from that sense.
Click to expand...
Never thought the Great Eye to be this powerful. Don't know how this will affect Ghost in any ways but I will list it down.
 
Well, at the end of the series, Freya herself states that Takeru had evolved to an existence equivalent to GreatEye, and not only that, but we also have two villains who absorbed GreatEye and even then lost to Taketu, GreatEzer the fusion of the Gammazers in which Takeru won when accumulating all the energy of Mugen and unleashing the LoveBomber and the villain of the special, where Heisei Damachii played with the guy like nothing.
 
Nicetoderp said:
Nah, Tid and possibly the Taros from Real World would also scale
Click to expand...
I'm not so sure about that. Given we have no idea what the hell is a "super time jacker" like Tid, nor if he's actually someone from the Real World.
What I want to say is : it's too vague to assume he's from the real world.
MugenGhost said:
また ､ 人間 が 存在 する 多数 の 次元 を 同時に 観察 し て おり 、 平行 世界 の 交錯 など を 察知 し た 際 は 、 次元 の 歪み が 生じ ないよう 、 矛盾 する 事象 に 都度 修正 を 加え て い た 。 グレート アイ ザー が 撃破 さ れ た 後 、 消さ れ て しまっ た 人々 を 元 に 戻し て ほしい という 天空 寺 タケル の 願い を 叶え 、 彼 を 復活 さ せ て から 地球 を 去っ た 。

In addition, he was observing many dimensions in which humans exist at the same time, and when he sensed the intersection of parallel worlds, he made corrections to the contradictory events so that the distortion of the dimensions would not occur. After the Great Iser was defeated, he was erased, fulfilling Takeru's wish to restore the people, and resurrected him before leaving the earth.
Click to expand...

The Great Eye's profile only mentions that he's only "observing" dimensions. So it's not actually anything AP related.
 
MagiSinbad said:
I'm not so sure about that. Given we have no idea what the hell is a "super time jacker" like Tid, nor if he's actually someone from the Real World.
What I want to say is : it's too vague to assume he's from the real world.
Click to expand...
Isn't Zukan confirmed he is the one that creates Ataru world in Zi-O Character?🤔
 
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