Kamen Rider Policy Revision and Additions

[Sir_Ovens]

Legend Rider Scaling
Ok, so I made a sandbox detailing a new policy for scaling Kamen Riders to each other. Long story short, Kamen Rider is a long-running series with years of crossovers and an in-universe system that makes scaling really hard. The policy draft page explains this problem and how to solve it. If there are any comments about the policy page, this is the place to make them.

If the above policy change goes through, what we need to do is remove all Legend Rider keys from Kamen Rider pages and remove any scaling that comes from them. Kamen Rider pages should only reflect stats that they have displayed in their respective seasons and canon tie-in movies. This should hopefully clean up some of the mess on their pages. We should also discuss what Rider forms need to be considered Legend Rider forms and remove them from the canon Rider pages.

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Oma Zi-O Page Revamp
Along with this, I redid Oma Zi-O's page to reflect all the Rider powers he should have since he has the powers of every Rider in the series. I won't explain the more mundane additions like Fire Manipulation or Surface Scaling since they're no-brainers and powers that other Riders already display on their pages. But I will explain the more complex powers unique to Oma.

Type 8 Immortality and High-Godly Regeneration: In the movie "Kamen Rider Heisei Generations FOREVER", it is explained that Kamen Riders will continue to exist so long as people remember them. During the events of the movie, a Time Jacker named Tid goes back in time and stops Kuuga from ever existing, erasing all of Heisei history in the process and turning all Heisei Riders into fiction. Despite this, all Heisei Riders returned at the climax of the movie through the memories of pedestrians. This would give all Legend Riders Type 8 reliant on people remembering they exist and High-Godly for regenerating from full history erasure. By extension, Oma Zi-O should have this since he has the power of all Riders, and is a Legend Rider himself post-Zi-O.

Resistance to Causality Manipulation, Existence Erasure, Power Absorption, Memory Manipulation, and Corruption: In the stage show: "Kamen Rider Zi-O: Final Stage", Hiryu Kakogawa uses an Another Ridewatch to become Another Oma Zi-O. Using an Another Ridewatch of a Rider erases their history and existence, rewriting the timeline and removing that Rider's power altogether. The person who would have been that Rider also loses their memory of ever being a Rider. Now, even though Hiryu took Oma's powers and erased him from history, he came back like nothing happened. That's more than enough evidence of resistance.

High-Godly Negation: In the Zi-O vs Decade special, Oma killed Decade, a Heisei Legend Rider with his own High-Godly. Pretty self-explanatory.

Immeasurable Speed: This should get removed in the future once AKM releases his CRT on immeasurable speed through time travel but until then, Kabuto's feat of travelling back in time through Hyper Clock Up counts as Immeasurable Speed. This is due to the fact that Kabuto physically moves so fast that he can travel through time whenever he activates Hyper Clock Up. This logically scales to Oma.

That is all for now.

 

[Nicetoderp]

Has already been discussed to death in discord so I agree with this.

Huh, thought that Oma would have Type 3 Acausality as well since that’s how White Woz survive his series death.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Oh yeah, you're right. His power can be passed down to another Zi-O from across the multiverse as well.

 

[Everything12]

Everything seems fine, except I'm not sure they should get both Type 8 and High-Godly.

I'm pretty sure we would give them just Type 8 that can return them from full history erasure, besides the Type 8 only really returns them from full history erasure and hasn't shown any feats or statements of regenerating lesser damage. Unsure about the Zi-O vs Decade special as I don't think I watched that one.

I'm also unsure if resisting the erasure of Another Rider would give them all of those Resistances, or if it's just Acausality Type 1 and by preventing the initial erasure then all the other after-effects never happen and thus don't have to be resisted.

 

[Nicetoderp]

And well, Sougo doesn’t even need to scale his High Godly feat to other Rider since he have his own.

In the same stage show, the entirety of Heisei Era has been erased by Another Oma. This seem to erased basically every single Rider out of existence. And the proof is Grand Zi-O Ridewatch going poof. Grand Zi-O Ridewatch is basically the proof of Heisei Era existence. Oma then straight up waltz right into the stage because the crowds was being noisy.

I'm also unsure if resisting the erasure of Another Rider would give them all of those Resistances, or if it's just Acausality Type 1 and by preventing the initial erasure then all the other after-effects never happen and thus don't have to be resisted

Aruto who’s mind link to Zea seem to be mostly unaffected by the change in history, yet it can be seen that the existence of Another Zero-One cause his power to start waning.

Decade who is also basically immune to timeline fuckery is still affected by the creation of Another Decade as well. So I don’t think having Acausality guaranteed resistances.

 

[Everything12]

Well, the Causality Manipulation, Existence Erasure, and Memory Manipulation being resisted is probably a case of Acausality Type 1; just Acausality Type 1 beyond the baseline Acausality Type 1 Decade has, but if what you say is true then resisting the Power Absorption as well would give additional resistance to that if it applies even when unaffected by the Timeline change.

I don't think Another Riders corrupt the real Rider though, isn't the corruption only applied to the Another Rider themselves?

That Oma feat might also be Acausality, not High-Godly.

 

[Overlord775]

@Nicetoderp

Didn't Kamen Rider Den-O resists the Another Watch stuff specifically because of him being a singularity and stuff ?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

The Legend Rider feat is way more than just acausality. Every Rider in existence was properly erased and turned into fiction. They did not exist as a real concept until people started keeping their memory alive.

Another Riders take your powers and your history. Even if Oma had acausality, he would still resist causality manip as a byproduct of his acausality.

 

[Nicetoderp]

Didn't Kamen Rider Den-O resists the Another Watch stuff specifically because of him being a singularity and stuff ?

He mostly unaffected. But a part of his power is still being absorbed into Ridewatch itself.

 

[Nicetoderp]

That Oma feat might also be Acausality, not High-Godly.

It can be. But you also need to remembered that if he erased the Heisei Era this would include Decade, Gaim, Den-O and slew of other characters who also have Acausality. And they are definitely erased since the proof of Heisei’s existence, Grand Zi-O Ridewatch are completely gone.

 

[Everything12]

Could be layered Acausality, Acausality that prevents timeline changes that affect other acausals.

 

[Nicetoderp]

What Another Oma did wasn’t just simply changing the timeline. He straight up delete the entire Era, so it make sense that Oma would be erased along with that as well. It isn’t some time paradox being cause which result in history change.

 

[Everything12]

How did he delete the era?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I think Legend Riders would get High-Godly regardless. They were erased to the point they became actual fiction. That should count towards High-Godly I would think.

 

[Nicetoderp]

How did he delete the era?

He said that the Heisei Era is c r i n g e and he was born in the wrong generation so he used Another Oma power to literally erased it all. Erased, not change.

 

[Everything12]

I think Legend Riders would get High-Godly regardless. They were erased to the point they became actual fiction. That should count towards High-Godly I would think.

If it relies on someone else to come back then it would be Type 8 and not High-Godly, you generally don't get both from the same feat. The above thing about Oma probably works for High-Godly though.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Alright, I'll list them as type 8 and stipulate that they can come back from being erased throughout history.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Would Sougo scale to this since he becomes Oma at the end of the series?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

He should. Based on what we know from the Decade vs Zi-O special is that there's only one Oma, and he needs to pass on his powers to other Zi-Os to continue living.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

High Godly Regeneration

Reread again: High Godly Regeneration

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Does everyone at least agree with Legend Rider scaling?

 

[Maskofthedragon]

They no point in making pages in what could just be keys and Legendary Riders are just every single Rider except the last 2 and spin-offs

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Except that Legend Riders sometimes get transformations that are not part of the main series canon. Like the entirety of Ghost's Heisei transformations. That entire special should just be its own page so as to not mess with canon scaling.

It will also prevent pages from bloating like Zero-One's page. ZeroZero-One can be its own page.

 

[IxaSaga2]

Does everyone at least agree with Legend Rider scaling?

agreed

 

[Maskofthedragon]

Except that Legend Riders sometimes get transformations that are not part of the main series canon. Like the entirety of Ghost's Heisei transformations. That entire special should just be its own page so as to not mess with canon scaling.

It will also prevent pages from bloating like Zero-One's page. ZeroZero-One can be its own page.

The bloat on that page coming from a single key with hacking

 

[Sir_Ovens]

That still doesn't solve the Ghost point. Hell, doesn't Gaim also have Legend Rider arms?

And don't misunderstand me, the separation isn't just for new forms. Legend Riders will also get keys for their level of power throughout the series. Least everyone become 2-C scaling to Decade in Super Hero Taisen.

 

[Maskofthedragon]

That still doesn't solve the Ghost point. Hell, doesn't Gaim also have Legend Rider arms?

And don't misunderstand me, the separation isn't just for new forms. Legend Riders will also get keys for their level of power throughout the series. Least everyone become 2-C scaling to Decade in Super Hero Taisen.

Many Riders since OOO's have a post series power up and all they do is upscale from their final form and have maybe one new power of note

 

[Nicetoderp]

So you wanna make everyone and their mother scale to 2-C Decade?

 

[Omazio2019]

Can Ohma have Omnipresent through saver who had united himself with 3000 worlds?

 

[Omazio2019]

Also i suggest you should add scan implied that Ohma can destroy all worlds

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I have added a reference to that on the draft page.

 

[Omazio2019]

I have added a reference to that on the draft page.

And shouldn't Ohma Zi-O innate power have energy manipulation or something like that cause he forced tsukasa out of his transformation and killed an AR Zi-O with his pure strength

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Many Riders since OOO's have a post series power up and all they do is upscale from their final form and have maybe one new power of note

Maybe I should have made this clear in the OP. Legend Rider pages will have keys based on their appearances in Legend Rider material. For example, Kuuga in Decade would have one key, and further appearances will have other keys, such as his minor roles in crossover movies.

In that same vein, Ichigo should have a Legend Rider page for all his Heisei appearances. He is literally The Legend Rider, and besides his appearance in Ghost, he should in no way scale to Riders like Decade in his original series. To add to that, given that the term Legend Rider means "Rider who's series has concluded", he should also have separate scaling from the rest of the Showa Riders in Showa crossover specials.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

And shouldn't Ohma Zi-O innate power have energy manipulation or something like that cause he forced tsukasa out of his transformation and killed an AR Zi-O with his pure strength

That should just be AP. All throughout Kamen Rider history, it is shown that sufficient damage can return a Rider back into their human form. That should be listed under their weakness section actually.

 

[Omazio2019]

I'm not sure about Ohma Zi-O high-godly negation as woz implied that decade wasn't permanently died 5:33

 

[Nicetoderp]

If he did survive then we can remove it later. And it’s not like Woz is correct about everything he said in his life.

 

[Omazio2019]

If he did survive then we can remove it later. And it’s not like Woz is correct about everything he said in his life.

Yes, you're right.

 

[Everything12]

Pretty sure the only one who would get High-Godly is Oma Zi-O though, based on the feat in the OP it would just be Type 8 on Timeline erasure for the rest of the Kamen Riders including Decade, so it wouldn't be High-Godly Negation anyway.

 

[Overlord775]

how about killing Another Oma Zi-O ? Would that count as High-Godly neg ?

 

[Nicetoderp]

how about killing Another Oma Zi-O ? Would that count as High-Godly neg ?

While Another Rider absorbed the power from the corresponding Rider, they don’t seem to gain ALL of their power as can be seen throughout the series, so highly doubt it.