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Kamen Rider Ex-Aid downgrade and possibly recision.

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Let’s get right into it.

1.Low 2-C Cronus and Lazer downgrade.

As stated by their profile that they got their Low 2-C stat from Lazer using Cronus’s Reset to bodied Genm God Billion who is Low 2-C...and that’s wrong. The reason that Lazer managed to defeat Genm is because of Reset, yes, but Reset doesn’t murder Genm or anything, it merely retcon/rewind his Low 2-C Power out. So this shouldn’t be here since this is a blatant case of hax.

2.Reset isn’t quite a time rewind

now, I know. Sound crazy. Literally the creator of basically every single things in this series said that “the game’s progress has been rewind.” But I wanted everyone to watch this clip from 1:30 to at least 4:00. Did you watch the clip? Good, let’s continued. From what you saw in that clip, you can see the deal between Cronus/Masamune and Machina Vision failed because he didn’t get them the Game Driver that he promised. In a scene right after we saw that because of Reset, the Game Driver and Gashats return to the original users.

Now...if this is really a time rewind, shouldn’t it you know, rewind time. So shouldn’t the meeting arrive at a different time? And everyone kept the memories of the event before Reset in tact. Everyone remembered that Genm created Hyper Muteki and so on...but after the Reset. The events that happened because of Hyper Muteki’s creation (Graphite infected himself, the chick get infected as a hostage, etc.) simply doesn’t happened.

So from what I’ve gathered here. It isn’t so much as so time was rewind, the event that lead to his defeat simply doesn’t happened. Is it just me or does this sound like Causality Manipulation?

of course, this isn’t entirely concrete. Just something that I wanted to throw out there as well.
 
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Yeah, that’s fair. Perhaps I need to ask someone who know more about causality hax/time manip for this
 
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We only have a single statement that the game have been rewind and nothing else so Time Reversal is the most reasonable choice so far.
 
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But unlike that, the time still move forward. The date is still the same, Masamune doesn’t start over from the day before Hyper Muteki was created. The gashat and everything revolves around it simply doesn’t happened.

We can goes from it scene by scene even.

During the finale of episode 40. Masamune was on his last legs, his gashat has been destroy and his plan to launch Kamen Rider Chronicle world wide was stop. Then out of desperation, Masamune raised his Bugster Driver and use Reset. Hyper Muteki disappeared just like that. No real sign of time moving backward, Hyper Muteki simply stop being a thing.
 
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May I see the official wiki statement?

And other than clock turning backward, we see other contradiction that I have stated earlier before.
 
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It is in here.

Exactly, we don't know how long time were reversed nor is there anything stated so. It could be one or two days or maybe longer but we known that Cronus reverse time long enough to the point that HM wasn't created yet.
 
I'm gonna say it causality manipulation, because all evidence so far has shown that cronus just reseting/reversing anything that related to hyper muteki .
Here the event :
1. Cronus fight with hyper muteki
2. Creation of hyper muteki
3. Genm losing life to create hyper muteki

So far these end up reseting to never happend , for the first event we can see that the fight that cronus has with emu and palad end up reset by making they never transform into their armor and reversing every damaged that has happend but they never move from their position eventhough they has been reset .
 
Also about lazer situation , I'm think it is in the same case with black barrel where instead of black barrel itself or making it user 2-A because it can kill gods and type that is 2-A , it just has the ability to kill those being that is 2-A .
 

SamanPatou

VS Battles
Administrator
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It has been asked me to comment here, but I know nothing of Kamen Rider and I have no idea of what's happening in that video or who these characters are, I can't give a reliable reply to this thread.
 
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@SamanPatou

Skip the video to 8:00.

The thread can be summarized as:

First, Reset (aka the power demonstrated in the video) are hax and so Cronus and Lazer Low 2-C rating should be removed.

Second, We are discussing about whether that power is Time Reversal or Causality Manipulation.
 
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Removal of Low 2-C makes sense and this would also apply to Novel Gamer X I still think God Genm's AP should be higher since he threw Mars in the novel but that's for another day. Not sure if I can entirely speak about the Reset, it works in a strange way. You also have to take into account that it rendered Bugsters like Lovelica capable of being brought back.
 
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Cronus has the end energy item said that it let the user destroy everything.Can that keep him low 2C or at least 3A?
 
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Cronus has the end energy item said that it let the user destroy everything.Can that keep him low 2C or at least 3A?
Nah, pretty vague. At most it’s EE
Also about lazer situation , I'm think it is in the same case with black barrel where instead of black barrel itself or making it user 2-A because it can kill gods and type that is 2-A , it just has the ability to kill those being that is 2-A .
but it isn’t that situation. While Reset is the key to defeat Genm God Billion but it isn’t what KILL him. Reset, well, reset Genm power back to before he amp himself to Low 2-C level and the two continue to duke it out
 
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Man, I also wanna talk about Cronus Immortality Negation to be revise into something like death manip/time manip since Reset doesn’t “permanently kill Bugster” it simply “cause the Bugster to repeat their death forever”
 
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It has been asked me to comment here, but I know nothing of Kamen Rider and I have no idea of what's happening in that video or who these characters are, I can't give a reliable reply to this thread.
Well, To put it simply. The low 2-C downgrade happened because the character defeat a Low 2-C char using the ability to de-power them rather than actually killing the Low 2-C character.

And the second point can be done for later. The first problem are much easier to deal with.
 
Man, I also wanna talk about Cronus Immortality Negation to be revise into something like death manip/time manip since Reset doesn’t “permanently kill Bugster” it simply “cause the Bugster to repeat their death forever”
Gonna correct you there , it's not reset but pause that neg bugster low godly regen because from what we got from Cronus is that pause make everyone that effected by it to "stuck to that moment" , meaning anyone that get kill in pause is stuck at the moment of their death .
 
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At 4:05 Cronus use time accelerate(or time rewind) and pause turn day to night but at 7:30 after cronus defeated night immediatly turning to day if it affect the real world then the night must have last long.
 
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We known that everytime Cronus's stop time, he also switch day to night and vice versa. In this case, Cronus's Time Stop got interrupted but it doesn't affect time in real world.

The cinematic time in the screen are different under our viewer perception so who know how long it have been for them.
 
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At 4:05 Cronus use time accelerate(or time rewind) and pause turn day to night but at 7:30 after cronus defeated night immediatly turning to day if it affect the real world then the night must have last long.
I'm not sure about game area can affect real world or not since game virus can affect the player and genm gashat can help lazer resurrect as human
 
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We known that everytime Cronus's stop time, he also switch day to night and vice versa. In this case, Cronus's Time Stop got interrupted but it doesn't affect time in real world.

The cinematic time in the screen are different under our viewer perception so who know how long it have been for them.
I think after cronus defeated they would immediately take him to jail not waited for morning beside the sun didn't rise as usual it show up immediately.
 
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I think you're misunderstood that they're inside a game so real world have nothing to do with it, which is wrong.

You see, Game Arena are similar to Subjective Reality which allow player to bring video game to real life. Everything in Ex-Aid happened in the real world so does Reset is.
 
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I think you're misunderstood that they're inside a game so real world have nothing to do with it, which is wrong.

You see, Game Arena are similar to Subjective Reality which allow player to bring video game to real life. Everything in Ex-Aid happened in the real world so does Reset is.
I agree with you that reset is time rewind but mutteki gashat created before the reseting time but when cronus rewind time they didn't back to the time muteki created only took back driver and gashat and cured niko from the virus. Arghhh toei make my head want to explode!!!
 
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Alright, this might take some time. Dan and Poppy clear than Cronus' Reset "Rewind the game time". Lazer then says that they were brought back to the time they were before the creation of the Hyper Muteki Gashat and that they still have their drivers. We also see that the clock was being reversed, so I believe that it's still time rewind. Though, you can correct me if I'm wrong on anything.

Btw cronus can make the victim he kill stuck at the moment of their death can this count as dead manipulation?
Nice actually brought this up before. Death Manipulation is just inducing death on a person. When Cronus kills someone in Pause, it literally 'pauses' them in time so Bugsters couldn't regenerate or revive. If anything, it was be limited Death Manipulation through Time Stop.
 
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Although, my problem with it being Time Rewind is that the main cast remembers everything that lead up to that moment.
 
Although, my problem with it being Time Rewind is that the main cast remembers everything that lead up to that moment.
Because of this I reluctantly want to say this is time rewind because they never shown time it self rewind , they just show that they get their driver , hyper multi ceased to exist and kuroto get his livestock back . So conclusion that I get is that cronus does not rewind time but erased those event .
 
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Well, I don't think it was that Hyper Muteki just never existed. Lazer said that they were transported back in time before Hyper Muteki was created. The events that led up to Cronus causing the reset was not erased but time was returned to a point where they didn't happened. The only thing that contradicts this the fact that everyone remembers those events but still say that time was reversed.
 
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Well, I don't think it was that Hyper Muteki just never existed. Lazer said that they were transported back in time before Hyper Muteki was created. The events that led up to Cronus causing the reset was not erased but time was returned to a point where they didn't happened. The only thing that contradicts this the fact that everyone remembers those events but still say that time was reversed.
If time were truly rewind then why doesn’t the date rewind back as well?
 
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What d you mean by data? Cause things like Nico being revived and Dan restoring his lives. Also, what's your reasoning for it being Causality Manipulation? I'd like to know our stand since you're the one who proposed it.
 
I go back and watch ep 41 , cronus reset on ep 40 . I'm not really good with putting picture so here the dialogue :

Lazer : The Hyper Muteki Gashat disappeared

Genm : I never thought the progress of rider Chronicle could be rolled back

Lazer : So basically , we're back to before Hyper Muteki Gashat was finished .
That would explain why we got our
Drivers and Gashat back .

Poppy : The Game was reset

Ex-Aid : That's why Nico was cured of her Gemdues disease .

(Showing a scene with Nico face in a surprise of finding herself become healthy and doesn't have Gemdues disease)

Later in the episode they show that Ex-Aid and Genm are recreating Hyper Muteki Gashat .

So before I write what I get from this episode here the link to that episode (https://dramacool.vc/kamen-rider-ex-aid-episode-41.html)
 
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Okay, I get it now. Well, for starters, we do see that the clock was being rewined when Cronus used Reset. But other than that, we don't have any indications for if the day or progress was rewined. I get where why you proposed this.

So I kinda just sat down and started thinking and this honestly sounds like 95% head cannon. So, imagine it like this. Like in a game, Cronus is capable of loading save files, restarting any progress anyone has made. This would explain the erasure of Hyper Muteki and everything else that happens in ep 41. It fits into Causality Manipulation while also explaining why the day wasn't reset, their progress way. Although, like I said, this is VERY head cannony, so you can brush this aside.

That being said, is there any indications for or against the day being reset.
 
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The argument against Time Rewind is that the date doesn’t change, or in this case, goes back to the day that Muteki was created. If it really was time rewind then the deal with Machina should be held WAYYYYY back. This can also be seen with Lazer using Reset on Genm. Time doesn’t physically rewind, only Genm power being basically reformatted into its original state.

The argument for it being time rewind is as James stated. The clock spin backward which is superficial in my opinion, and various statement of game time being rewind.
 
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Director didn't put a specific time so we can't tell if the date are same.

Based on Machina and Cronus conversation they may had a deal back then, only this time Machina criticize him for not bringing Gamer Driver back.
 
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Director didn't put a specific time so we can't tell if the date are same.

Based on Machina and Cronus conversation they may had a deal back then, only this time Machina criticize him for not bringing Gamer Driver back.
It is a deal that Machina Vision made yes, but he required a single Game Driver for him to actually accepted the deal. And since Masamune wasn’t able to deliver the Driver during the time their meet, their deal is off.

And it is clear that the event of episode 41 is in the very next day after Reset.
 
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Reset doesn't affect memory, remember? Which mean Machina are aware of Reset effect and he told Cronus that regardless of circumstances he must bring Gamer Driver back, since Cronus doesn't their deal is reset.
 
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