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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

But in this case you have numbers. Going by what Gojo says about BF, weather conditions matter, there is the timing thing, but in the end it's luck.

You can argue it's going to happen. I can argue it's not going to happen.
 
But in this case you have numbers. Going by what Gojo says about BF, weather conditions matter, there is the timing thing, but in the end it's luck.

You can argue it's going to happen. I can argue it's not going to happen.
While we don't have hard numbers we still have the fact that he has had more fights where he landed than not as well as several statements that he is exceptionally lucky with the move.

I'm not saying he is guaranteed to land it but that if a match up is otherwise close (say Vs Yuki) I'm gonna give Yuji the edge because he has a much higher chance of hitting a BF than his opponent
 
It's largely luck but Yuji clearly has an exceptional affinity to the point that Black Flash is semi-reliable for him. It's even said that while he can't use it at will he's "so good" that it makes one think he can, so there's clearly factors to it that are just as important as random chance. Yuji's not like Hakari where his luck is constantly emphasized as extraordinary, so whatever makes him unusually good at landing Black Flashes isn't just pure luck.
 
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While we don't have hard numbers we still have the fact that he has had more fights where he landed than not as well as several statements that he is exceptionally lucky with the move.
It's not about number of fights but number of attacks he deals without hitting a BF. How many attacks he landed in this fights before he landed a BF? It took Yuji like ~12 hits before his first BF with Sukuna.

Yuki doesn't even need to land a BF on Yuji to hit harder than him so it's kind of useless to her.
 
It's not about number of fights but number of attacks he deals without hitting a BF. How many attacks he landed in this fights before he landed a BF? It took Yuji like ~12 hits before his first BF with Sukuna.

Yuki doesn't even need to land a BF on Yuji to hit harder than him so it's kind of useless to her.
It took like 2 hits before he landed his first one on Hanami and landed one immediately once he locked in against Mahito. And once he gets one going he isn't gonna be stopping either
 
And it's not true that Garuda has zero dura feats. With Star Rage it is able to withstand Yuki kicking it to one-shot a Special Grade CS.
 
Still was strong enough to tank attacks from top tiers like Maki and Miguel
Not the same. This Sukuna was taking numerous Black Flashes from Itadori and his output was low enough to do skin thich damage on Itadori with Dismantle.
 
Not the same. This Sukuna was taking numerous Black Flashes from Itadori and his output was low enough to do skin thich damage on Itadori with Dismantle.
Fair enough but the fact the he could also tabk Yuji's BF like that and still got hurt by Shrine is another point to it being pretty strong
No, it's not about that. Kenjaku says it's about not lowering the speed
He says that there is no effect on the sorcerer
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And later brings up dura
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Garuda is still getting kicked by a Star Rage powered up Yuki.
No it's Yuki kicking a Garuda that is then imbued with Star Rage
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Yuji definitely weakens ppl a ton specially since all his feats were on Sukuna
But Yorozu isn't stupid either
Not only does she start off with ranged attacks, but the second she feels her output drop, she's going bug armour
And if he so much as cracks it, she will use domain expansion alongside her sphere and I cannot for the life of me see a way Yuji survives that
 
He could probably just use Shrine to cut Garuda up
Its not strong enough.

Do I need to show you the scans of him getting his whole side destroyed by cleave and RCTing again. What about him getting his whole body shredded by MS and instantly reattaching
And he can't keep doing that with every hit from Yuki.

Pretty much every time a fight comes down to hands Yuji had the advantage (Todo, Choso, Mahito). CQC was the only thing he could do for nost of the series so he is obviously pretty good at it.
It's still something he can pull of far more consistently than basically everyone else in the verse
I don't really get what you mean here. Yuji still retained things like Shrine, his DE and to a certain extend better CE refinement after the fight
Yuji's fights are almost never him having the edge, against Todo he was gonna lose if Todo didn't give him advice lmao. With Choso, he lost and they were comparable at best, and Mahito was comparable to him too, hell Mahito was literally gonna win if Yuji didn't hit a bf and didn't have Todo helping him.
And I'm talking about start of Shinjuku Yuji, he isn't gonna be running on 7 black flashes amp, he's gonna be the same Yuji who was getting bullied and outperforming others.

Ok but like why would you use Sukuna as a reference. Not only is he the literal strongest character in the verse, he also specifically took measures to make sure Megumi's body wouldn't slip out of his control
So then we have nothing to go off on and thus Yuji's soul hits are unquantifiable against other reincarnated.

evry other reincarnated would take a lot less to be seriously effected by the soul attacks
Prove this.

I also don't get why you guys are so against Yuji using BF as a wincon. To put it into perspective, out of the 7 major fights Yuji has had since unlocking the move he has landed it in 4 of them. That's a higher than not chance of him landing BF and 2 of the times he didn't do it barely even count because he was either holding back (against Yuta) or straight up didn't have CE to use (against Higuruma)
Put it into perspective, Yuji hasn't hit a bf since the one on Mahito and after this he's been through like 7 fights. When he's literally the only one capable of continuing to fight Sukuna he finally hits one, especially when he got help from Larue getting Sukuna off guard. Just saying its disingenuous to say its a win con when we're shown Yuji needs concentration, aid, and an opening to hit them when its beneficial.

On Hanami he got help from Todo
On Eso he was just lucky
On Mahito he had help from Todo and had already hit one prior which he also had focused up on due to the events that had just played out and getting hope about Nobara.

Fighting someone like Yuki who's gonna be one shotting and having Garuda in the field to hinder him, its gonna be impossible.
 
Its not strong enough.
Already went over this
And he can't keep doing that with every hit from Yuki.
He certainly could against Sukuna. He even calls out the fact that most of the attacks he took inside Yuta's domain would have been lethal without RCT. Yuji can naturally convert his CE to blood, reattach limbs and overall is much more capable when using RCT due to his physiology. If an attack doesn't destroy his head it simply won't kill him
Yuji's fights are almost never him having the edge, against Todo he was gonna lose if Todo didn't give him advice lmao.
He was outskilling Todo for most of that fight, Todo just helped him improve his CE control
With Choso, he lost and they were comparable at best,
He lost because Choso surprised him with the blood armor and then one shot him. In terms of raw skill Yuji was superior
and Mahito was comparable to him too
Mahito was spamming big moves and shapeshifting but any time they fought with straight hands Yuji mopped him
hell Mahito was literally gonna win if Yuji didn't hit a bf and didn't have Todo helping him.
Yes a massively powered up Mahito was gonna do that, no amount of skill is gonna save you when your opponent can Senator Armstrong through all your attacks
And I'm talking about start of Shinjuku Yuji, he isn't gonna be running on 7 black flashes amp, he's gonna be the same Yuji who was getting bullied and outperforming others.
And I'm talking about end of Shinjuku Yuji, i think I made that pretty clear with all the times I brought up Shrine or his DE
So then we have nothing to go off on and thus Yuji's soul hits are unquantifiable against other reincarnated.
Prove this.
Sukuna has the highest CE output in the verse (or is tied with Gojo) and even while nerfed from UV he was dealing one shot level damage to Yuta and Yuji, so while the drop in output may not seem that significant, it is when you consider who Yuji is up against. Against sorcerers with much lower outputs than Sukuna the drop is gonna be much more obvious

Same thing with their control over their bodies weakening. Sukuna had specifically taken measures to insure Megumi could never break free from his control so his grip on his body is gonna be far greater than any other reincarnated players
Put it into perspective, Yuji hasn't hit a bf since the one on Mahito and after this he's been through like 7 fights.
Yuta, Helicopter guy, Higuruma, 16F Meguna. Idk where you saw the 7 fights his been in since Mahito. Against Yuta he was actively holding back and wanting to die, against Higuruma he didn't have CE to use BF with and he one shot the Helicopter guy anyway.
Just saying its disingenuous to say its a win con when we're shown Yuji needs concentration, aid, and an opening to hit them when its beneficial.

On Hanami he got help from Todo
On Eso he was just lucky
On Mahito he had help from Todo and had already hit one prior which he also had focused up on due to the events that had just played out and getting hope about Nobara.

Fighting someone like Yuki who's gonna be one shotting and having Garuda in the field to hinder him, its gonna be impossible.
He hit his first ever BF on Hanami with no outside help or experience using it before and did so as Hanami was attacking him. The reason he's always had outside help when performing BF is because Yuji has outside help in most of his fights anyway but that doesn't mean he can't use it on his own. Especially when it's mentioned several times that he extremely lucky with the move, to the point where Mahito new he'd be shredded if he didn't take it into account while fighting him solo.

I think it's a lot more disingenuous to act like the technique that's basically Yuji's main move somehow is a non factor in his match ups.

In conclusion...
4Qb6OzI.png
 
Already went over this

He certainly could against Sukuna. He even calls out the fact that most of the attacks he took inside Yuta's domain would have been lethal without RCT. Yuji can naturally convert his CE to blood, reattach limbs and overall is much more capable when using RCT due to his physiology. If an attack doesn't destroy his head it simply won't kill him

He was outskilling Todo for most of that fight, Todo just helped him improve his CE control

He lost because Choso surprised him with the blood armor and then one shot him. In terms of raw skill Yuji was superior

Mahito was spamming big moves and shapeshifting but any time they fought with straight hands Yuji mopped him

Yes a massively powered up Mahito was gonna do that, no amount of skill is gonna save you when your opponent can Senator Armstrong through all your attacks

And I'm talking about end of Shinjuku Yuji, i think I made that pretty clear with all the times I brought up Shrine or his DE

Sukuna has the highest CE output in the verse (or is tied with Gojo) and even while nerfed from UV he was dealing one shot level damage to Yuta and Yuji, so while the drop in output may not seem that significant, it is when you consider who Yuji is up against. Against sorcerers with much lower outputs than Sukuna the drop is gonna be much more obvious

Same thing with their control over their bodies weakening. Sukuna had specifically taken measures to insure Megumi could never break free from his control so his grip on his body is gonna be far greater than any other reincarnated players

Yuta, Helicopter guy, Higuruma, 16F Meguna. Idk where you saw the 7 fights his been in since Mahito. Against Yuta he was actively holding back and wanting to die, against Higuruma he didn't have CE to use BF with and he one shot the Helicopter guy anyway.

He hit his first ever BF on Hanami with no outside help or experience using it before and did so as Hanami was attacking him. The reason he's always had outside help when performing BF is because Yuji has outside help in most of his fights anyway but that doesn't mean he can't use it on his own. Especially when it's mentioned several times that he extremely lucky with the move, to the point where Mahito new he'd be shredded if he didn't take it into account while fighting him solo.

I think it's a lot more disingenuous to act like the technique that's basically Yuji's main move somehow is a non factor in his match ups.

In conclusion...
4Qb6OzI.png
People taking Sukuna's durability into consideration and comparing him to others is funny bro 🙃
 
He certainly could against Sukuna. He even calls out the fact that most of the attacks he took inside Yuta's domain would have been lethal without RCT. Yuji can naturally convert his CE to blood, reattach limbs and overall is much more capable when using RCT due to his physiology. If an attack doesn't destroy his head it simply won't kill him
Why do you guys ignore so much of the story? He took four fatal attacks and missed a proper heal and crashed afterwards and needed to be reminded how to do rct and was out for several minutes of the fight.

He was outskilling Todo for most of that fight, Todo just helped him improve his CE control
No he wasn't? Todo even tells him he's never gonna beat him due to his improper control of ce and then after this Todo is still doing just fine against him and has to teach him how to flow his ce. Yuji was objectively inferior to Todo during this fight.

He lost because Choso surprised him with the blood armor and then one shot him. In terms of raw skill Yuji was superior
No he wasn't, they were both comparable with Yuji unable to land a good hit during the bathroom fight.
And I'm talking about end of Shinjuku Yuji, i think I made that pretty clear with all the times I brought up Shrine or his DE
It wasn't, I usually take everything to mean within a match not a specific point in the manga where the characters have their most favorable moments for stats/skill. And when you presented the big Yuji post you weren't just talking about end of Shinjuku, you were citing several early Shinjuku feats.

Sukuna has the highest CE output in the verse (or is tied with Gojo) and even while nerfed from UV he was dealing one shot level damage to Yuta and Yuji, so while the drop in output may not seem that significant, it is when you consider who Yuji is up against. Against sorcerers with much lower outputs than Sukuna the drop is gonna be much more obvious

Same thing with their control over their bodies weakening. Sukuna had specifically taken measures to insure Megumi could never break free from his control so his grip on his body is gonna be far greater than any other reincarnated players
No its not actually, Sukuna's drop in output is due to Megumi regaining control of his body, the reincarnated players destroyed their vessel's consciousness, something Sukuna didn't do and was actively having undone. The reincarnates have full control just like Sukuna had originally so it shouldn't be any different from him.

Yuta, Helicopter guy, Higuruma, 16F Meguna. Idk where you saw the 7 fights his been in since Mahito. Against Yuta he was actively holding back and wanting to die, against Higuruma he didn't have CE to use BF with and he one shot the Helicopter guy anyway.
You named 4, I wasn't off by much. And the context doesn't matter, I'm saying we don't see it as often so its percentage of happening against stronger and harder people to fight is less likely. You explaining the context doesn't matter unless you think he'd have hit them if he had more fights.

He hit his first ever BF on Hanami with no outside help or experience using it before and did so as Hanami was attacking him. The reason he's always had outside help when performing BF is because Yuji has outside help in most of his fights anyway but that doesn't mean he can't use it on his own. Especially when it's mentioned several times that he extremely lucky with the move, to the point where Mahito new he'd be shredded if he didn't take it into account while fighting him solo.
The mangas already told us BF is random and no one's chosen, you're looking at two moments where Yuji just happened to land a lot and acting like it'll happen in these other scenarios and I don't see why it would.

You guys oversell the hand to hand combat of characters in JJK way too much, most these guys are comparable to one another and only get the edge on one another due to their ct use like I said already. But if this is specifically in BF zone Yuji where he's still on the high from his initial one on Sukuna yeah maybe the guys got a better chance of hitting BF. To me it just sounds like you're tryna have your cake and eat it too.
 
Why do you guys ignore so much of the story? He took four fatal attacks and missed a proper heal and crashed afterwards and needed to be reminded how to do rct and was out for several minutes of the fight.
But he did learn how to heal himself properly with this and later he gets cut up by a full output Malevolent Shrine and is able to immideatly reattach himself with no problem
No he wasn't? Todo even tells him he's never gonna beat him due to his improper control of ce and then after this Todo is still doing just fine against him and has to teach him how to flow his ce. Yuji was objectively inferior to Todo during this fight.
So like I said Todo taught him CE control but in terms of CQC skill Yuji was superior which was shown several times in the fight

No he wasn't, they were both comparable with Yuji unable to land a good hit during the bathroom fight.
He actually hit Choso three times in the bathroom fight and this was him working with only one arm and later a busted liver

It wasn't, I usually take everything to mean within a match not a specific point in the manga where the characters have their most favorable moments for stats/skill. And when you presented the big Yuji post you weren't just talking about end of Shinjuku, you were citing several early Shinjuku feats.
I was using early Shinjuku Yuji's feats as a baseline, since post-awakening he is at least as strong if not stronger. Also I'm not just picking a favorable moment, this is the scaling and arsenal he'd have after the showdown unless you think he somehow lost Shrine and his DE
No its not actually, Sukuna's drop in output is due to Megumi regaining control of his body, the reincarnated players destroyed their vessel's consciousness, something Sukuna didn't do and was actively having undone. The reincarnates have full control just like Sukuna had originally so it shouldn't be any different from him.
Fair enough on this tho I will say that Sukuna states Yuji's attacks are dangerous to reincarnated types and he was also the gangs plan to deal with all the reincarnated sorcerers running around so the drop in output and the weakening of the body would still apply to them

You named 4, I wasn't off by much. And the context doesn't matter, I'm saying we don't see it as often so its percentage of happening against stronger and harder people to fight is less likely. You explaining the context doesn't matter unless you think he'd have hit them if he had more fights.
The context does matter because in those fights he either physically couldn't do BF, would have no reason to even attempt concentrating on BF, or didn't need BF because he one shot his opponent anyways. Concentration is still a factor in landing BF and if Yuji doens't try to concentrate on it he is far less likely to land it
The mangas already told us BF is random and no one's chosen, you're looking at two moments where Yuji just happened to land a lot and acting like it'll happen in these other scenarios and I don't see why it would.
The manga has also told us several times that Yuji is especially lucky with the technique
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But he did learn how to heal himself properly with this and later he gets cut up by a full output Malevolent Shrine and is able to immideatly reattach himself with no problem
THAT ISN'T RCT LMAOOOO

So like I said Todo taught him CE control but in terms of CQC skill Yuji was superior which was shown several times in the fight
Post how Todo right after stops his punch.

He actually hit Choso three times in the bathroom fight and this was him working with only one arm and later a busted liver
No he didn't, they are blocking and diverting each other's attacks there. Point is they are comparable. Idk why you guys try to argue Yuji being superior to people he's obviously not so much. I get bro only got hands but come on.

I was using early Shinjuku Yuji's feats as a baseline, since post-awakening he is at least as strong if not stronger. Also I'm not just picking a favorable moment, this is the scaling and arsenal he'd have after the showdown unless you think he somehow lost Shrine and his DE
You're misunderstanding. I'm just saying if we did a match we wouldn't go and include Yuji's BF feats as though its in base is all.


Fair enough on this tho I will say that Sukuna states Yuji's attacks are dangerous to reincarnated types and he was also the gangs plan to deal with all the reincarnated sorcerers running around so the drop in output and the weakening of the body would still apply to them
Yeah ofc.

The manga has also told us several times that Yuji is especially lucky with the technique
But he isn't actually.
 
THAT ISN'T RCT LMAOOOO
He pulls himself together with blood manip and reattaches with RCT
Post how Todo right after stops his punch.
Obviously Todo is a good fighter too but Yuji was pulling impressive moves constantly during the fight
No he didn't
Yes he did
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, they are blocking and diverting each other's attacks there. Point is they are comparable. Idk why you guys try to argue Yuji being superior to people he's obviously not so much. I get bro only got hands but come on.
Yuji was boxing with only one arm for most of the fight while also constantly reading Choso's moves and countering him, he was the more skilled of the two
You're misunderstanding. I'm just saying if we did a match we wouldn't go and include Yuji's BF feats as though its in base is all.
He would have retained the level he was at while landing BFs tho, like how he retained his improved CE control after the Hanami fight
But he isn't actually.
Why is he landing them so often then?
 
Yes he did
Did you read what I said?? And did you read what you said? Yuji didn't hit him three times, and Yuji never lands a good hit. That random kick is not good.
No he wasn't, they were both comparable with Yuji unable to land a good hit during the bathroom fight.

Yeah ur just trolling now lmao. Especially that last one, we both know what happened right after that.

Yuji was boxing with only one arm for most of the fight while also constantly reading Choso's moves and countering him, he was the more skilled of the two
That proves nothing.

He would have retained the level he was at while landing BFs tho, like how he retained his improved CE control after the Hanami fight
You're so confused.

In a match we would not start with the assumption Yuji's base takes on his BF feats within a Shinjuku key, we would start him out as his Shinjuku key and he'd end up with the BF feats in the match if it progressed that far.

Only way this is avoided is if Yuji's Shinjuku key is ignored and we simply do a post Shinjuku key which is pointless since it would be everything he did during Shinjuku anyway. This is like Gojo's pre and post awakening stats for reference. Gojo unlocked purple and he got faster. Yuji got Shrine, he got stronger, he got faster, and most of all, his feats after the first bf on Sukuna are all in the zone feats.
 
In terms of pure CQC, Yuji has Choso and Mahito beat. Choso was using Flow Red Scale: Stacked (which is said to be akin to a Maximum Technique in the Fanbook) but Yuji still kept up with all of Choso's hits and managed to get 2 direct hits in while never taking a direct hit from Choso until Choso tricked him with hardened blood. Mahito was fighting a Yuji who was already past his breaking point and started involving human bystanders to throw Yuji's focus off, before that Yuji straight up embarassed him in CQC.
 
Did you read what I said?? And did you read what you said? Yuji didn't hit him three times, and Yuji never lands a good hit. That random kick is not good.
Because?
Yeah ur just trolling now lmao.
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That proves nothing.
I'd like to see you fight someone as strong as you with one arm then lmao
You're so confused.

In a match we would not start with the assumption Yuji's base takes on his BF feats within a Shinjuku key, we would start him out as his Shinjuku key and he'd end up with the BF feats in the match if it progressed that far.

Only way this is avoided is if Yuji's Shinjuku key is ignored and we simply do a post Shinjuku key which is pointless since it would be everything he did during Shinjuku anyway. This is like Gojo's pre and post awakening stats for reference. Gojo unlocked purple and he got faster. Yuji got Shrine, he got stronger, he got faster, and most of all, his feats after the first bf on Sukuna are all in the zone feats.
I don't care what his keys are bruh, those are largely dictated by the preference of the person making the profile (hell I even suggested to M3X we give Yuji two keys for Shinjuku)
 
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I don't care what his keys are bruh, those are largely dictated by the preference of the person making the profile (hell I even suggested to M3X we give Yuji two keys for Shinjuku)
I also suggested for two keys. I know people would start with bullshit about Yuji not landing BF.
 
Can someone explain how tf did Sukuna regain his RCT output to heal himself after getting hit by 30 BF?
What 30th BF?

With 2 BF it seems like characters can evolve to create new stuff
  • Gojo created a new circuit for his RCT
  • Sukuna created a new domain (same domain but he switched brain parts)
  • Sukuna regaining RCT might be similar to Gojo's case if you are talking about Him regaining RCT after he cooked Todo.
 
What 30th BF?
It's a joke, kinda
With 2 BF it seems like characters can evolve to create new stuff
  • Gojo created a new circuit for his RCT
  • Sukuna created a new domain (same domain but he switched brain parts)
  • Sukuna regaining RCT might be similar to Gojo's case if you are talking about Him regaining RCT after he cooked Todo.
I mean after taking several hits from Yuji and his black fistings since he specifically weakens Sukuna
 
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